It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

How to fix the criminal justice system?

page: 2
5
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 10:54 AM
link   
a reply to: crazyewok
For a start lets talk about your grade 2 and up as grade 1 should not even be near courts unless drunk driving involves injury to others.
Now before I start I am NOT advocating Sharia but virtually everybody knows that when criminals are starting on their life of crime (or even the accidental criminal) a short sharp shock can work wonders. If you are an ordinary person, by that I mean not some-one living in a gated community or their own security, then you will know your local criminals and the only thing that deters them is fear. The fear that if they enter your arena the WILL get hurt. Why do you think that the local hard nuts never get broken into? That's as long as they are not the criminal. I sincerely think they aught to bring back hanging but to add to that I think they aught to bring back Birching. No prolonged prison, straight from the court room, punished and on your way.
But it must be done in front of his associates for them to witness him or her crying (cos crying they will do) for them to realize what will happen to them if they offend.
Seems barbaric don't it bot the ONLY thing theyfear is pain.




posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 10:54 AM
link   

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Aazadan

But for serious crimes like murder and pedophilia, surely they should have lufe without parole?


I think the death penalty should be applied, liberally, to Pedophiles.

All repeat/violent offenders connected to organised crime organisations such as gangs as well.

Not to mention those murder cases that come out every few years that are well beyond the pale of human normality. Some real sickos out there where housing them is a waste of state resources.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 10:55 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I agree...... until a point.

Surely pedos and murders who have permanently ruined lives should be denied ant chance of release?

And as for rape? Surely they need a period of harsh punishment before they move onto rehabilitation?



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:01 AM
link   
a reply to: crazyewok

Well according to the article, Norway can still sentence people up to 21 years in prison. It's just that the country views the removal of freedom as the sole punishment over the US' idea that the entire jail experience is a punishment. Instead Norway will dedicate its time to rehabilitating these people. What if that rapist is driven by mental illness? Wouldn't it do good to get to the bottom of it and counsel him so he can control his urges?

If we attempt to understand these criminals, maybe we could do better in preventing the crimes and preventing their re-occurrences from happening.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:03 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: WilliamtheResolute

In other words you are saying we've already failed before even trying. I disagree. I think we can totally change the way we go about rehabilitating prisoners. We don't have to 100% adopt Norway's policies all at once or even ever, but to discount their successes completely is ridiculously dumb. I'm tired of repeating the same mistakes over and over again when it comes to our prison population only to see the same # happening. Then everyone wonders why our prison population is out of hand. It's stupid. We need to stop focusing on punishing wrongdoing over correcting the behavior. We should be leaving punishment behind as a relic of era we've passed.


The easy solution is to repeal the laws that put most people in the system......drug offenses. If we legalize, tax and manage peoples desire for recreational drugs you can expand the tax base while cutting the prison capacity by over 50%. I am adamantly opposed to private prisons and think that state institutions should be reserved for violent criminals.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:04 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Saving the World One Criminal at a time in reverse. (reverse being the opposite of what should be done to them).



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:05 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

This is where we will have to disagree.

I think we ahould look at Norway and adopt SOME of what they are doing.

But not all


They are far to soft on murder and rape.

Instead we should go for a mixed system than just black/white/one or the other.

Premeditated murder should not be released full stop, ever, peroid. They should feel lucky thry are not hung.

And rape? 21 years seems about right for that. 15 years in a punishment style prison and 6 years in a Norwegian style rehabilitation prison.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:06 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Portugal dealt with the problem in what many see as an novel way also.

We need more people in this country who actually think and want to change things and make improvements instead of trying to do the bidding of their predominantly STUPID constituency.

Unfortunately the opinions of the most stupid of us are considered right along with the good ideas.

Unfortunately the majority of people are ignorant at least.
edit on ? by MyHappyDogShiner because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:07 AM
link   
Without crime wall street would crash.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:09 AM
link   
a reply to: intrptr

Without crime walls street would never have existed.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:10 AM
link   
a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

American has a problem with siding with bandwagon fallacies. Everyone believes it? Then it MUST be true.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:10 AM
link   

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
a reply to: intrptr

Without crime walls street would never have existed.



Wanna fix it? Arrest the banksters and the law makers first.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:12 AM
link   

originally posted by: intrptr

Without crime wall street would crash.


You are correct, the system is broken and in today's reality you get the justice you can afford. We have become a country divided into "the have's" and the "have not's" and I am afraid there is a reason that all these hedge fund types built bunkers.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:14 AM
link   
a reply to: WilliamtheResolute

That will fix a lot and trust me I'm right there with you on that one, but at the same time we REALLY need to improve our rehabilitation measures. Measures that have severely fallen to the wayside since we escalated our incarceration rates and policing starting in the 70's and 80's. We care way too much about the punishment versus making sure the criminal is able to return to life outside of jail and live fine.

Someone shouldn't be going to jail for shop lifting and come out with a degree in advanced felonies, but we hear about these things all the time. Drug addicts go to jail and come out with more severe addictions. Stalkers have become rapists. And violent criminals have all joined a gang. This is a problem that extends past the excessive imprisonments due to drug offenses.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:17 AM
link   
a reply to: crazyewok

Well I certainly don't think that we should adopt ALL of Norway's policies. We are a different country. We could never make exactly what they do work for us. But we CAN audit their procedures and look at what we can implement here to fix things.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:23 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Agreed, but nothing gets fixed until you release the half of the prison population that are there on drug offenses in order to focus on and deal with the truly criminal. The system is overwhelmed and there is no time or money for serious rehabilitation. Until there is employment or a solution to deal with those released this is pretty much just academic.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:24 AM
link   

originally posted by: WilliamtheResolute

originally posted by: intrptr

Without crime wall street would crash.


You are correct, the system is broken and in today's reality you get the justice you can afford. We have become a country divided into "the have's" and the "have not's" and I am afraid there is a reason that all these hedge fund types built bunkers.

And have the criminal justice system on their side. That system stands between the corrupt system and the people.

Even it is owned and operated like a business.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:24 AM
link   
a reply to: intrptr

There are times that i think that would be a good thing.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:27 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm sorry but no.
You are totally ignoring brain chemistry/psych issues which in many cases treatment can't rehabilitate. Some humans just can't be rehabilitated and to ignore this places an undue burden on society.

While I will agree it's a "slippery slope" in theory, in practical terms it's not.
Many crimes do justify a death sentence. Pedophilia is one. The victim is damaged for life. While you may be all for that offenders "rehab" the damage lasts a lifetime for the victim and WILL be passed on down thru families to include many multiple more victims.

One persons rehab does NOT negate the affects.

Secondly while I'll get blasted for this. opiate addiction and narcan. Why?
It's a proven fact that person will never regain complete brain function despite a successful rehab. If someone has OD'd multiple times why are we forcing first responders to bring them back? It's more merciful to just let them go. Sure we will face an initial high mortality event but saving people from the consequences of their actions serves no one.

Murder.
That's a line once crossed you can't undo and equally no amount of rehab "fixes anything".

The societal "cost" of making excuses and not dealing swiftly with reprehensible behaviors has led to multiple secondary for profit businesses that are exploiting offenders as a source of income at further cost overall to every single one of us.

I understand this will come off as "harsh" but the reality is, not everyone can be rehabilitated.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:27 AM
link   

originally posted by: crazyewok
This applys to the USA as well as UK as your problems are even worse than ours.

Fact is our way of dealing with criminals is not working. Reoffending rates are a joke and Prisons are just acting as universitys of crime, yet dangrous inviduals like murders and rapist seem to get "light" sentences.

So how do we fix it? How to re rehbailititate without igfnoring the right to retribution for the victim?

How do we solve the problem of criminal records being used to deny released prisoners work (increasing reoffending rates), yet protecting the safty of the public?

Also how to we make the court system fair? Money talks. There is a two tier justice sytsem where in money can buy a get out of jail free card, either in buying superior laywers that can run rings around jurys or just out right being declared "to rich to jail"?


Me?

I would fit crimes into 4 catorgars:

Grade 1
No criminal record, no prison
(Crimes with no clear victims)
Speeding
Parking violation etc.
Drink driving

Grade 2
Court record, with no access to ANYONE outside the court system. No prison.
Repeat offenders get moved to grade 3
(Crime with minor effect to victim)
Petty theft
Minor fraud
Tax evasion
Fighting
Drunk and disorderly conduct (or same under drugs).

Grade3
(Crimes with major effects to victims)
Criminal record that lasts 4 years, prison, time must be 50% punishment 50% rehabilitation
Repeat offenders get moved to grade 4
Assault (no permanent injury)
Major theft
Mugging
Major fraud
Drink driving with victim (non fatal).
Drug dealing/ manufacturing with intent to sell.

Grade 4
(Crime has devestating effect to victim)
Life long criminal record, prison time that must last over 15 years. 75-100% punishment
Murder (all life tariff NO PAROLE)
Terrorism (all life tariff NO PAROLE)
Paedophilia (all life tariff NO PAROLE)
Treason
Corruption
Rape
Assault with permeant injury
Manslaughter.

There should be two prisons types:
1 based around rehabilitation for grade 3, with good education facilities that aims to turn people into functional human beings and another around punishment and brutal conditions for the grade 4 being the scum of the earth who either serve all or most there time in, with the hope most just off themselfs

Violent and nonviolent criminals should be strictly separated!

What ideas do the rest of you have?




IT's simple DECRIMINALIZE ALL DRUGS!!! You don't need to do more than that and jailing somone for selling a plant your plan is dumb







 
5
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join