How to fix the criminal justice system?

This applys to the USA as well as UK as your problems are even worse than ours.

Fact is our way of dealing with criminals is not working. Reoffending rates are a joke and Prisons are just acting as universitys of crime, yet dangrous inviduals like murders and rapist seem to get "light" sentences.

So how do we fix it? How to re rehbailititate without igfnoring the right to retribution for the victim?

How do we solve the problem of criminal records being used to deny released prisoners work (increasing reoffending rates), yet protecting the safty of the public?

Also how to we make the court system fair? Money talks. There is a two tier justice sytsem where in money can buy a get out of jail free card, either in buying superior laywers that can run rings around jurys or just out right being declared "to rich to jail"?


Me?

I would fit crimes into 4 catorgars:

Grade 1
No criminal record, no prison
(Crimes with no clear victims)
Speeding
Parking violation etc.
Drink driving

Grade 2
Court record, with no access to ANYONE outside the court system. No prison.
Repeat offenders get moved to grade 3
(Crime with minor effect to victim)
Petty theft
Minor fraud
Tax evasion
Fighting
Drunk and disorderly conduct (or same under drugs).

Grade3
(Crimes with major effects to victims)
Criminal record that lasts 4 years, prison, time must be 50% punishment 50% rehabilitation
Repeat offenders get moved to grade 4
Assault (no permanent injury)
Major theft
Mugging
Major fraud
Drink driving with victim (non fatal).
Drug dealing/ manufacturing with intent to sell.

Grade 4
(Crime has devestating effect to victim)
Life long criminal record, prison time that must last over 15 years. 75-100% punishment
Murder (all life tariff NO PAROLE)
Terrorism (all life tariff NO PAROLE)
Paedophilia (all life tariff NO PAROLE)
Treason
Corruption
Rape
Assault with permeant injury
Manslaughter.

There should be two prisons types:
1 based around rehabilitation for grade 3, with good education facilities that aims to turn people into functional human beings and another around punishment and brutal conditions for the grade 4 being the scum of the earth who either serve all or most there time in, with the hope most just off themselfs
Violent and nonviolent criminals should be strictly separated!

What ideas do the rest of you have?

a reply to: crazyewok

My 'reform' would be to double the pay rate of LEO's and lock the other half of them up. No budgetary adjustments required. Get the enforcers trustworthy and work from there.

a reply to: gription

That the police, which is a whole diffrent topic.

The problem is when criminals enter the system.

a reply to: crazyewok

If only you would accept me as the ultimate tyrant of this planet, i would fix everything in a year, and if it can not be fixed, i would just destroy it.

a reply to: crazyewok

They all enter through police action. A small amount is spontaneously adjudicated, but any reform needs to start from the point of initiation.

a reply to: crazyewok

Lower prison sentences and heavier fines is what I would go with. I would also offer time off your sentence and perhaps even a check to get you started in life once free if people in prison participated in job training programs while behind bars.

I do disagree with your crime levels too, most notably is grade 1. I've had way too many friends in my life killed due to drunk drivers. Drunk driving is a serious offense.

Edit: Also, no private prisons. Their profit model is based on recidivism it turns crime from a cost sector which we have a financial incentive to minimize into a profit sector that some have a financial incentive to maximize. Prisons should be costs, that way we use them as little as possible.

a reply to: crazyewok

I retired from the Criminal Justice system and have dealt with the scum of the earth. You are correct when you call state prisons "criminal universities" and I can guarantee that a whole new crop of gang bangers and religious terrorists are being indoctrinated at any given moment. The old Muslim, Skinhead, Crips, Bloods, etc., etc., etc, are constantly adding new members from the prisons ranks. Some people are criminals by accident and some by design. You can rehabilitate the accidental criminal but not the intentional one, some people are just criminal sociopaths and sadists.

The simple answer is to make the penalty fit the crime, did the accused intend to break the law or are there mitigating circumstances that could have some bearing? This country would be a better place if we still had speedy trial and swift justice. I think execution is a legitimate form of social eugenics and is necessary to insure a healthy and just society.

Sterile drug induced execution is barbaric and should be outlawed in favor of public hangings, deserving criminals being hung for their crimes is a very real object lesson to those who choose a criminal lifestyle. If you think this is a harsh assessment then so be it, just remember that people in cages are not a zoo and 98% of them will be back on the street someday.....fight for your 2nd Amendment rights, you may need them!

a reply to: Aazadan

Well what crimes go in what grade is up for debate.


But yes i woould go for lower prison sentences to a extent............


But for serious crimes like murder and pedophilia, surely they should have lufe without parole?

originally posted by: gription
a reply to: crazyewok

They all enter through police action. A small amount is spontaneously adjudicated, but any reform needs to start from the point of initiation.

But police only respond to crime and pick up suspects.

They do not (or should not) be dishing out punishment.


This debate is what happens when a criminal is tried and sentenced.

1) Make drugs and other vices legal. Regulate it and instead of imprisoning people, use the money for healthcare/rehab costs.

2) Prisons need to focus more on rehabilitation and life training instead of punishment.

3) More programs to help at risk youth

4) Harsh and quick punishment for violent offenders. I have no problem with public hangings, crucifixions, and all manner of other sick and sadistic torture for these violent gangbanger, rapist, Pedos and other dirt bags.

a reply to: crazyewok

Sessions plans to build more private Prisons which are designed to make money on occupancy rates---Best way to fix The CRIMINAL JUST-U$ $Y$TEM is with an extinct level event. Nothing survives.

a reply to: crazyewok

Just had 7 LEO's indicted on Federal charges here in Baltimore. Your sky must be quite nice.

a reply to: crazyewok

We should look towards systems that work:
Why Norway's prison system is so successful

That makes Norway's incarceration rate just 75 per 100,000 people, compared to 707 people for every 100,000 people in the US.

On top of that, when criminals in Norway leave prison, they stay out. It has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. The US has one of the highest: 76.6% of prisoners are re-arrested within five years.

Here's what they do:

Based on that information, it's safe to assume Norway's criminal justice system is doing something right. Few citizens there go to prison, and those who do usually go only once. So how does Norway accomplish this feat? The country relies on a concept called "restorative justice," which aims to repair the harm caused by crime rather than punish people. This system focuses on rehabilitating prisoners.

Take a look at Halden Prison, and you'll see what we mean. The 75-acre facility maintains as much "normalcy" as possible. That means no bars on the windows, kitchens fully equipped with sharp objects, and friendships between guards and inmates. For Norway, removing people's freedom is enough of a punishment.

Like many prisons, Halden seeks to prepare inmates for life on the outside with vocational programs: woodworking, assembly workshops, and even a recording studio.

Some more points:

In general, prison should have five goals, as described by criminologist Bob Cameron: retribution, incapacitation, deterrence, restoration, and rehabilitation. In his words though, "Americans want their prisoners punished first and rehabilitated second."

Norway adopts a less punitive approach than the US and focuses on making sure prisoners don't come back. A 2007 report on recidivism released by the US Department of Justice found that strict incarceration actually increases offender recidivism, while facilities that incorporate "cognitive-behavioral programs rooted in social learning theory" are the most effective at keeping ex-cons out of jail.

The maximum life sentence in Norway shows just how serious the country is about its unique approach. With few exceptions (for genocide and war crimes mostly), judges can only sentence criminals to a maximum of 21 years. At the end of the initial term, however, five-year increments can be added onto to the prisoner's sentence every five years, indefinitely, if the system determines he or she isn't rehabilitated.

Apparently treating criminals like human beings does wonders for the crime rate.

I came up with a system once that I thought would work for all.

A court would be used to determine innocence or guilt ONLY.

Once in the system you would be placed in a level similar to yours but some difference in the way it worked.

You would be placed on the worst level for the most terrible crimes as a starting point.

You would then have to work your way up to the best level in order to be released.

The bottom level would consist of being housed.

Each of the other levels would add freedoms and programs for self improvement such as group sessions and moving up to education and job training. You would have to work hard to continue moving upwards. If you were involved in Illegal or elicit activities you would be placed in a lower level and be required to start that level over again. Release would only be possible by completing certain goals set forth by a counselor and yourself. This would give criminals an incentive to better themselves and also help society in the long run. On the bottom levels there would be an emphasis on guards but as you neared the higher levels counselors would slowly replace them until the highest level where there would be almost no supervision at all. You could not advance levels without working towards your goals so another words if you were convicted of petty theft and lets say you started on the next to highest level if you did not meet your requirements you could stay there for life or rule violations could send you to lower levels. On the other hand if you were convicted of murder you could prove yourself and possibly be out in say ten years.

ETA: Also with this system prisoners would become more employable and depending on the direction they chose employers could find employees to fill their needs. If given half a chance many prisoners would integrate well into society and become productive citizens instead of fighting to stay alive and reverting to old ways in order to survive. The stigma of being an ex-felon often times makes it almost impossible for an offender to make it in society which causes a lot of recidivism in my opinion. The next topic will elicit many negative comments from those on ATS but the labeling of sex offenders in my opinion is a horrible idea. Monitor them yes label them no. Why do I say this? Good question. To the best of my knowledge an employer can fire an employee based on the fact that they are labeled a sex offender. Sex offenders can be denied housing based solely on their label. So what happens to them? Where do they go? Well many end up on the streets where it is next to impossible to monitor their activities. So now they are wandering around literally everywhere and no one is the wiser. What happens when a sex offender moves into a neighborhood and tries to make a new life and leave the old one behind? They are shunned by their neighbors, refused work, and collect public assistance or become homeless. In which of those scenarios does it make it safer for society? Many will say just lock them up and throw away the key but then we the people are paying for them for the rest of their life.

a reply to: gription

Like I said----Every once in awhile the brethrens of the lodge will take one for the team to make it appear fair.

a reply to: crazyewok

I've pondered on this before, sometimes I think it would be better to do what they did a few hundred years ago. They swiftly dealt with hard core criminals, the types you wouldn't want following you home at night. A good sharp sword and about 2 minutes of live entertainment and drama and that was that. Quick and to the point.

Of course people nowadays would rather get the tax payer to buy them their food clothing and give them a place to lay their head down at night. The world has gone to pot. If anything caused these max prisons to fail, power etc, they would run through the streets in hordes raping pillaging killing and creating havoc and chaos. (worst case scenario).

sf great thread!

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The Norwegian prison system sounds lovely and well suited to a small country of generally peaceful law abiding citizens. It is a stark contrast to the social disaster that has been institutionalized in our minority communities in the U.S. The "ghetto's" that comprise our inner cities is a breeding ground for criminal activity and the influx of hard core gang members from Mexico and South America has added a very dangerous dimension.

The only way our criminal justice situation will improve is to rehabilitate the ghetto's and give the residents jobs and hope for a future. The key is to save the children through education and a safe neighborhood, we are way past the Norwegian model.

Most criminal justice systems don't work to reduce crime because their livelihoods (The police, the courts, the prisons) depend on people re offending and earning them their money.

Only ignorant people would think that if the criminal justice system actually worked there would even be one.

If they were out to fix something, they would fix themselves right out of a job.

The system in the US takes advantage of people who don't have the resources to win the fight in the courts, like if you have insurance and dont't have the cash for your deductible, the criminal justice system doesn't really fix # and doesn't intend to because if it did it would be irrelevant in it's current form.

You are not doing anyone a favor by holding every mistake they have ever made against them and making it difficult to get back to being a productive member of society...

Unless you're one of those stupid sheep who has never been exposed to it anywhere but by babbling with your gabby dumb sheep friends and watching the liars and idiots on TV, and thinking you know something about it.

The people running your bull# system know exactly what they need to do to fix it from their end...

...Keep those private for profit prisons filled to capacity whether them poor dumb fools broke the law or violated a code or not...

Classic dumb conservative bull#...

a reply to: superluminal11

They are all tired. Heal.

a reply to: WilliamtheResolute

In other words you are saying we've already failed before even trying. I disagree. I think we can totally change the way we go about rehabilitating prisoners. We don't have to 100% adopt Norway's policies all at once or even ever, but to discount their successes completely is ridiculously dumb. I'm tired of repeating the same mistakes over and over again when it comes to our prison population only to see the same # happening. Then everyone wonders why our prison population is out of hand. It's stupid. We need to stop focusing on punishing wrongdoing over correcting the behavior. We should be leaving punishment behind as a relic of era we've passed.