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Donald Trump speech to joint session of Congress, February 28, 2017

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posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 08:55 AM
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originally posted by: gps777
a reply to: Gryphon66

I`m owning it not shrugging away responsibility for saying looney left, its been a complete circus from the left which cost them the Presidency something the left is still fighting. Where you yourself conceded that now you think Trump will even run 2 terms. Why, because the left is so rational?

If you think you and I and a few more people reading our convo, that I`m a cause of the division in America and we make any difference at all to the whole scheme of things and you think I believe that everyone has to agree with me, then that's irrational.I don`t believe that for a second.

The longer Trump is in and makes good on his policies people from the left will see things differently and he will get greater support.




In terms of what we have been seeing, I think that the term looney left is correct. Not because the entire left is like that, rather a small portion. It has become fairly clear that fringes of the left have gained too much influence and I don't think the DNC currently represents the left well. In my view the only way forward is a moderate one. That means the looney left has to be ousted AND the looney right needs to be marginalised.
edit on 1/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:07 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Speaking as a person on the left who has abandoned support for it until we can get some sanity back in terms of our representation and stop the crazies from speaking for us and pretending that's not a problem you're exactly right. This behavior has pushed both me and many others away, and yet denial is so often the chosen course instead of realization.



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:07 AM
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a reply to: gps777

Gesturing toward "the looney left" is a mere rhetorical device. It's like me saying "wingnuts" or "neo-cons" or "Trump supporters."

It's a generic vague term and it's only use (and the only uses of those other terms) is to marginalize individuals.

A "complete circus" from the left is more hyperbole. Yes, there have been protests, yes, there has been rioting and unruliness at some of them which is wrong.

And again "the left is so irrational" ... who? what? when? where? is "the left"? You're not saying anything, you're blowing a dog whistle that either attracts people or angers them. Of course you're part of the division ... because almost every sentence you write is divisive. I am part of the division for pointing out your divisiveness ... and round and round we go.

Why don't we all start speaking specifically rather than generically? And if we must be generic, then why not choose somthing that isn't charged with partisan rhetoric like "some people" or "some folks" ... because that's all it is.

Instead of "the right" thinks this (which some may and some may not and some may think something completely different) refer to the person that has said they think that or this.

Think of it this way ... if I were to say "all you Trump supporters are racist Nazis" how does that make you feel as an INDIVIDUAL?

Angry?

It works exactly the same way the other way round.



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:09 AM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: UKTruth

Speaking as a person on the left who has abandoned support for it until we can get some sanity back in terms of our representation and stop the crazies from speaking for us and pretending that's not a problem you're exactly right. This behavior has pushed both me and many others away, and yet denial is so often the chosen course instead of realization.


Well, speaking as someone who has always been moderate because I hold some very conservative views and some very liberal ones, I think we do ourselves a disservice when we make absolute statements.

Not agreeing with someone's thoughtful summation (in this case, yours) doesn't mean that anyone is in denial.

There are more ways to look at the world than just two.



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I'm moderate in a sense as well, but some of my views are so far left I might as well call my self left. I have some strong conservative views as well such on illegal immigration. The point is, if the left is ever going to be relevant again, we need to stop letting the crazies speak for us. You can pretend it's not a problem all you want, but as a minority I am sick and tired of being made to look like a freak by the left's choice of representation and it's refusal to do anything about.



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:30 AM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Gryphon66

I'm moderate in a sense as well, but some of my views are so far left I might as well call my self left. I have some strong conservative views as well such on illegal immigration. The point is, if the left is ever going to be relevant again, we need to stop letting the crazies speak for us. You can pretend it's not a problem all you want, but as a minority I am sick and tired of being made to look like a freak by the left's choice of representation and it's refusal to do anything about.


And please bear with me (and thank you for responding) ... I'm not sure that folks like you and I for starters belong on "the left" or "the right" or either of the two parties ...

Some of my biggest concerns regard civil rights and civil liberties. There's only been one real option to support traditionally, if one is committed to LGBT rights, women's rights, equal treatment for all. There's only been one selection that supports science over religion and belief. But then, that party seems to be under some old gypsy's curse ... because it seems that if any politician is going to do something really dumb ... it's going to be a Democrat (Republicans seem to get in trouble in the sexual romantic realm).

Looking at the party leadership last night ... Pelosi, Schumer, even Elizabeth Warren (who I personlly like okay) ... who among these people inspires any sort of general confidence? They seem petty, spiteful, short-sighted, and incompetent.

And, variously, the Republican side is no better.

I'm babbling .. but. If you are speaking to me personally, then I have to admit to an amount of confusion. How am I pretending that there aren't problems in the Democratic party? (since you seem to be equating that with "left")



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:30 AM
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I didn't get a chance to watch the speech bit from reading this thread it sounds like he's still pushing his same pro-wealthy healthcare and education plans. Not exactly putting all Americans first with those.

I'm also baffled by his decision to increase defense spending by $54 billion. I get that the military needs an overhaul. At the same time though he's cutting the budget of pretty much every other department in an attempt to cut down on waste. Yet at the same time he's giving the department most notorious for waste, misspending, and overspending more money.

Finally, I fail to see how he can achieve anything he wants to accomplish without drastically increasing the deficit. He's already said that he's taking cuts to Social Security and Medicare off the table. Those programs coupled with mandatory debt payments already account for a large portion of the budget. Then on top of that he wants to add $54 billion to defense spending, $30-$50 billion for his wall, and an undisclosed amount on infrastructure projects. Just to cover the increase in defense spending he would need to completely cut EPA funding eight times.

To me it seems like his goals are a pipedream. I just hope his supporters are as ready to call him out on increasing the deficit as they were Obama.



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:31 AM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
I'm also baffled by his decision to increase defense spending by $54 billion.

With the way Obama left our military, does he have a choice?



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What is the military lacking to fight wars?



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:37 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
I'm also baffled by his decision to increase defense spending by $54 billion.

With the way Obama left our military, does he have a choice?


That's a gross oversimplification. The current state of the military is a decades long process.

Obama made efforts to modernize and streamline our capabilities.

And of course, he failed in some aspects as well for multiple reasons.



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:49 AM
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The ONLY way to fix an economy when we have a monetary/banking system of the type we have in the U.S. and most of the rest of the world is to have another war.

This armchair general, draft dodger, tax evader, pussy grabber 'pussy' is going to talk you into going and bleeding dying on foreign soil to enrich himself and his banker buddies.

A bazzillion jobs in the military when the draft is reinstated....

Maybe...I Dunno...



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:52 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Like I said, the military does need an overhaul. But you can hardly blame Obama for the decades of waste they is associated with defense spending. The F-35 is now seven years overdue and something like $200 billion over budget. What does the DoD do? They continue to throw money at Lockheed while they post record profits.

Or what about the trillions of dollars the Pentagon simply can't account for?

Hell back in the 80s the Pentagon was spending $75,000 on aluminum ladders.

This is an issue you simply can't lay at Obama's feet. And it looks like Trump is just going to continue the trend.



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 10:06 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Sure I can. It happened under his watch. The military is gutted, and it's not all the F-35. Is it ALL Obama's fault? Certainly not. But Obama definitely passed the plate on, and added more to it.



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 10:08 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties is a big deal to myself as well, I however think there's a predatory side to much of the left that profits and benefits by using minorities for profit while setting us back by creating unnecessary conflict which they can profit from. To keep the conflict strong the push extreme prejudiced views that little to no real minorities share, or such a small fraction of us that it SHOULD be irrelivant. I get what you're saying, but I think we minorities have entered into a devil's deal with the left, the right is no better, but at least it seems pretty honest on how it views us. I can work better with someone who will honestly admit their feelings towards me even if negative, than I can someone who lies to my face with their fingers crossed behind their back. With the first an open honest discussion is possible, with the second the whole thing is based on lies and deception. Pretend to be my friend one second and stabbing me in the back the next. I'm personally sick of it.

I don't think the left or right are true friends to minorities. One dislikes us and doesn't want us around, and the other preys upon and uses us while pretending to be our friends.

As for at you directly, not sure. At least you're admitting there's problems. That's something. For a long time there it seemed the left could do no wrong and had no problems to most. This is possibly a good sign, maybe the fervor is dying down and we can all start discussing again.
edit on 3/1/2017 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 10:18 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: UKTruth

Speaking as a person on the left who has abandoned support for it until we can get some sanity back in terms of our representation and stop the crazies from speaking for us and pretending that's not a problem you're exactly right. This behavior has pushed both me and many others away, and yet denial is so often the chosen course instead of realization.


Well, speaking as someone who has always been moderate because I hold some very conservative views and some very liberal ones, I think we do ourselves a disservice when we make absolute statements.

Not agreeing with someone's thoughtful summation (in this case, yours) doesn't mean that anyone is in denial.

There are more ways to look at the world than just two.


But the term 'looney left' is being specific. It's not the left, it's an element of the left. Just like the far right looney's don't represent the right.
You are right in that there are more than two perspectives at play. Calling a specific group out for ridiculous behaviour is not a judgement on the entire ideology of the left, some of which makes sense.



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3

Go ask Zaphod about the airforce. You really have no clue how unprepared we are. I do not say that in a mean spirited way, I say it in a way that you will be absolutely shocked when you learn the truth.

It is not all Obama's doing. But Obama passed it on and added to it. SOMEONE has to fix it. You can't kick the can down the road forever, eventually you will hit Rome.



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 10:26 AM
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originally posted by: Konduit
Oh my god... she's melting!




^^^^^ Democrat Senior Leader !! ^^^^^

Best they got.




posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

True, I do not know much about the military. I know about dying and killing. What is our military missing to fight wars, is it that hard of answer?



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 10:29 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

And how is Trump's approach any different. Every other department he has identified as being wasteful he has told they are going to have to do more with less.

Not only has Trump not told the DoD something similar he hasn't identified them as a source of waste at all. So what reason is there to believe that this extra $54 billion will actually go towards overhauling the military?



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 10:39 AM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

And how is Trump's approach any different. Every other department he has identified as being wasteful he has told they are going to have to do more with less.

Not only has Trump not told the DoD something similar he hasn't identified them as a source of waste at all. So what reason is there to believe that this extra $54 billion will actually go towards overhauling the military?


Incorrect.

Trump has repeatedly called out the DoD for waste and has become actively involved in renegotiating with key suppliers.
He's probably put more focus on the waste there than any other dept.

There is a new, and fake, media narrative that additional spend means waste is not being targeted. Don't fall for it.




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