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Freemasonry: Why All The Secrecy?

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posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 04:34 PM
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I have to admit that I have know a great number of Masons during my lifetime. The thing that strikes me most is the secrecy that is involved. The vast majority it appears haven't a clue about the nature of this or these secret(s). They know to keep the grips, signs, and tokens concealed. However, when it comes to any in depth knowledge concerning Freemasonry they leave much to be desired. It's almost like a subtle brainwashing has taken place. Surely, there must be some great secrets or it all seems ratrher pointless and purposeless. Unless you like sitting in a meeting for two hours discussing the next fundraising event or other money making ideas. The only meaningful information came from one friend that divulged the things I already discussed in the thread "Revelation by a Freemason." I think maybe when one decides to ride the goat, the goat must in turn do horrible things to one's thought process.




posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 04:58 PM
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I submit that you have little idea of what you are talking about, and your "admission" that you "have know a great number of Masons" during your lifetime is an exaggeration in number and use of the verb to know.

Surely, if you were interested and you were a man of integrity, you would go about learning the "great secrets" in the manner prescribed, not as the proverbial "ruffian" or interloper.

Nothing wrong with the thought processes of many of the Freemasons who post at ATS. Read them, and you will see signs of their vision, their knowledge, their ability to reason and communicate and their willingness to make a difference.

Where do you personally sit on those dimensions, do you think?



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 08:28 PM
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what is with all the secrets. I mean you all talk about this stuff in chat rooms that have passwords and we hear more from people who are not even masons than masons and when masons start saying stuff it starts a whole new conversation or you just criticize that person.what is the big secret behind all this.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by Osirisrisen
I have to admit that I have know a great number of Masons during my lifetime. The thing that strikes me most is the secrecy that is involved. The vast majority it appears haven't a clue about the nature of this or these secret(s). They know to keep the grips, signs, and tokens concealed. However, when it comes to any in depth knowledge concerning Freemasonry they leave much to be desired. Surely, there must be some great secrets or it all seems ratrher pointless and purposeless.


As has been mentioned, the grips, signs, and tokens are the secrets of Masonry. These are the secrets that each Mason vows to keep. The oath of secrecy concerning these things dates to the middle ages; they may seem silly today to non-Masons, but they were very important at one time, and we have preserved this tradition of the secrets.

To give you an example, in some versions of Masonic ritual, as soon as the obligation is taken, a Brother approaches the Candidate and says "I will now proceed to instruct you in the secrets of this degree", afterwhich he demonstrates the grips, signs, and reveals the password of the degree.

These are the only secrets of Masonry. Everything else about Masonry is available to the public in a million Masonic books, written by thousands of Masonic authors.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by Shadow Ghost 7
...you all talk about this stuff in chat rooms that have passwords...


A Freemason will never write, or permanently imprint, that which he has vowed to keep private. Masonic secrets have been passed from mouth to ear for hundreds of years.



what is the big secret behind all this.


It's the secret to ruling the world! No really, they're just the account numbers and PINs of Swiss Bank Accounts full of Nazi gold.

You see, no matter what explication myself or any other mason here gives you, you still will not believe me. You won't believe that we would keep secret something so simple and silly (silly to you, not to any masons) and will think that we're just trained to say that, or possibly believe that because our "higher ups" only really know the truth of what's going on.

So, because of that, I will just let you think whatever you want. You can find the answer within HUNDREDS of CREDIBLE SOURCES, or you can keep checking your conspiracy theory websites for the fantastic and ridiculously unbelievable theories from people who are not, never were and never will be masons.

The answer is right in front of your face, take it or leave it. The reason we keep it secret is simple: OUR SECRETS ARE WHAT MAKES US MASONS. They are our "trade secrets", if you will. Our philosophy, rituals, handshakes and passwords are what differentiates us from everyone else. These secrets are what teaches us to be the best person we can be. So why do we keep it so seriously secret? Because tradition tells us to.

It's a boring answer, it's nothing worth writing a book about. Believe it or not, it doesn't make a difference. Most anybody can learn our secrets, all they have to do is make a commitment to better themselves and the community around them (and of course, to not tell our secrets).



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 12:53 AM
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My friend that was a mason, described the . of freemasons as the King Makers. He also said something about King Kill 33 degree. Something I've also read the the King Kill goes way back in history. Where the elite would sacrifice their king or leader for the good of the country. He also called the King Makers the Illuminati.

I think I know little bits and peices about Mason's but the secret knowledge some think they know that also. Things so secret not worth even speaking about on so public a forum in respect from men that dedicate their lives to the craft.

He wouldn't show me the secret handshakes for fear of death he stated. He said if he did he would end up being buried in the sand at low tide. That just shows you how seriously these men protect that which the love. So you could also say the when they say don't tell those who do not have the knowledge we have, they protect it with their word of honor. To bad there are many weak men in this nation that don't hold true to their word. Perhaps if their feminized mothers had had such a short string with their husbands, these men today would honor there words such as the freemasons do and the Almighty God of Abraham, Jacob and Isacc.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 07:49 AM
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I think you have some flawed information there, dude. First of all, the "Head of the Masons" is not really "Head of the Masons" ( I assume by this you mean the MANY Grand Masters) at all, seeing as all Grand Lodges are autonomous and there is no "central authority" in Freemasonry. Secondly, as has been previously discussed here NUMEROUS times, the oaths Masons take (Severing bowels and having your ashes scattered to the winds and all that) are what they call symbolic. Meaning, no Mason should ever fear for their life from breaking their oath and revealing something they shouldn't. It is, as you said, a matter of honor and integrity, and standing by your word.

Finally,


Originally posted by Verlch
Perhaps if their feminized mothers had had such a short string with their husbands, these men today would honor there words such as the freemasons do and the Almighty God of Abraham, Jacob and Isacc.


I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, but if this is a comment stating that subjectifying women is something to be encouraged, well my friend, at least in my opinion you are DEAD WRONG. Women are to be honored and respected, not kept on a "short string". Just my $0.02.

[edit on 2/1/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 09:48 AM
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Sebatwerk,
I have heard many a mason try to describe the secrets of freemasonry, but never as eliquant as you have. I started a thread a while back about "Divulging the Secrets of Freemasonry", with the intent of telling everyone what you did in one post.

Well Put!



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
As has been mentioned, the grips, signs, and tokens are the secrets of Masonry. These are the secrets that each Mason vows to keep. The oath of secrecy concerning these things dates to the middle ages; they may seem silly today to non-Masons, but they were very important at one time, and we have preserved this tradition of the secrets.

These are the only secrets of Masonry. Everything else about Masonry is available to the public in a million Masonic books, written by thousands of Masonic authors.


Excuse me while I laugh hillariously and wipe the coffee from my nose.


Please don't insult the fine people of this forum with outright deception. Mr. Light I've read a few of your posts and I know you know there is more to it than this.

For instance, in a regular constituted lodge the very initiation itself is designed to create an effect within the candidate. This is why the initiation must be performed correctly. The signs and symbolism is of paramount importance. You must take geometry, gnosis, and the Grand Architect of the Universe into consideration. There is the issue of the point within the circle. There are deeper mysteries that I would dare not mention on this forum.

The works of some of the finest Masonic authors such as Pike and Manley P. Hall have to be seriously considered and studied. The warrior on the block...the dynamo power. It puzzles me why Masons know nothing about the deeper philosophy of their own craft. The majority seem to think it is nothing more than a social club.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by Osirisrisen


Please don't insult the fine people of this forum with outright deception. Mr. Light I've read a few of your posts and I know you know there is more to it than this.

For instance, in a regular constituted lodge the very initiation itself is designed to create an effect within the candidate.



Errr. Then that makes them secrets individual to the candidate and not secrets of Masonry.
Read your own words again.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller
Errr. Then that makes them secrets individual to the candidate and not secrets of Masonry.
Read your own words again.


Uh.....What? Please don't use quotes out of context. I mean what I say and say what I mean. Let's play fair and be HONEST. Don't try to twist what I am saying into something else. Stay with me on this OK?



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by Osirisrisen
Stay with me on this OK?


I could stay with you if you didn't contradict the Truth.
The fact is as you have been told. There are no secrets other than the grips and passwords. Every other secret belongs to the individual and not to Freemasonry.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Osirisrisen
Uh.....What? Please don't use quotes out of context. I mean what I say and say what I mean. Let's play fair and be HONEST. Don't try to twist what I am saying into something else.


Now there's a novel idea...



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 03:26 PM
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No offense to anyone intended, but "Good Lord"! Here we go again.

It's interesting to me that folks who come here and attempt to nay-say the Masons always seem to know someone who knows someone who is/was a Grand-glorious Leapin' High Nabob, Grand Master of the Great Googlimoogahs. And there is always some "bizarre" tale ascribed or sworn to about the evil that Masons really do.

Seems to me that if you want to know what the Masons do then it might be a good idea to join them. If they are as nefarious as you say/think then come back and publish such. Otherwise, you may find that they are telling the truth, and you can come back and report.

Either way, it must be getting tiresome to the Masons here to have to constantly be answering to folks who "appear" to have no idea what they are on about.

However, having said that, please proceed with illuminating the rest of us with such tales of the macabre and nefariousness of the Masons. I'd kind of like to hear what you really have to say about the things that you won't mention on the forum...


Oh man! I'm waiting with anticipation.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 03:29 PM
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No offense to anyone intended, but "Good Lord"! Here we go again.

It's interesting to me that folks who come here and attempt to nay-say the Masons always seem to know someone who knows someone who is/was a Grand-glorious Leapin' High Nabob, Grand Master of the Great Googlimoogahs. And there is always some "bizarre" tale ascribed or sworn to about the evil that Masons really do.

Seems to me that if you want to know what the Masons do then it might be a good idea to join them. If they are as nefarious as you say/think then come back and publish such. Otherwise, you may find that they are telling the truth, and you can come back and report.

Either way, it must be getting tiresome to the Masons here to have to constantly be answering to folks who "appear" to have no idea what they are on about.

However, having said that, please proceed with illuminating the rest of us with such tales of the macabre and nefariousness of the Masons. I'd kind of like to hear what you really have to say about the things that you won't mention on the forum...


Oh man! I'm waiting with anticipation.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by sigung86
No offense to anyone intended, but "Good Lord"! Here we go again.


Dude, I think you may have been channelling me. My thought about 1 hour ago.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by sigung86
Either way, it must be getting tiresome to the Masons here to have to constantly be answering to folks who "appear" to have no idea what they are on about.


Obviously, I know what I'm talking about. My point is that 85% of Masons don't know what I'm talking about. Nor can they give you any philosophical meanings of Freemasonry.

You can take two Master Masons one may have a deeper understanding of the craft while the other pretends that he does, but really is clueless. The second may have joined for a more self serving purpose.

It may be ego, pride, or some other superflous part of his character which induced him to join. Now he can put an emblem on his car to help satisfy his self-seeking motive.

People are people wherever you go.

[edit on 1-2-2005 by Osirisrisen]



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Osirisrisen


Excuse me while I laugh hillariously and wipe the coffee from my nose...Please don't insult the fine people of this forum with outright deception. Mr. Light I've read a few of your posts and I know you know there is more to it than this.


I take offense at you calling me a liar, especially when you yourself have made some extremely questionable claims. What I wrote above is absolutely true, and every Mason here knows it.


For instance, in a regular constituted lodge the very initiation itself is designed to create an effect within the candidate. This is why the initiation must be performed correctly. The signs and symbolism is of paramount importance.


Hogwash. As I've said before, ceremonial initiation is only symbolic of True Initiation, which occurs within. The actual ritual, by itself, means nothing. This is what several esoteric Masonic philophers have meant by saying that there are many Masons who have never set foot in a Lodge Room. Initiation is internal. Ceremony points out the proper direction, but it is ridiculous to believe that no one was enlightened until some guy wrote a ritual.


The works of some of the finest Masonic authors such as Pike and Manley P. Hall have to be seriously considered and studied. The warrior on the block...the dynamo power. It puzzles me why Masons know nothing about the deeper philosophy of their own craft. The majority seem to think it is nothing more than a social club.


Hall is an interesting writer, but his comments that you quoted (from "The Lost Keys of Freemasonry") cannot really be applied to the Masonic organization in the first place. He wrote the book in 1924, when he was 20 years old, and this was 30 years before he himself became a Mason (which he did in 1954).

Therefore, it seems as if you're saying that Masons know nothing about the "deeper philosophy of their own craft" just because many are not familiar with a book written by a non-Mason about Masonry. In fact, in the preface of the 1976 reprint, Hall says that when he wrote the book, the only knowledge he had of Freemasonry was from a few books available at his college library while he was in school. So, even though Hall is well-respected by some, including myself, to insinuate that a book written by a college kid on the subject, when he didn't even at the time know any Masons, is some sort of guideline for Masons to follow, seems rather absurd.

As for Pike, it seems to me that most of the Brothers here are quite familiar with him. I've studied his works for years, including books by him that you've probably never even heard of, not to mention his degree rituals, which you do not have access to, not being a Scottish Rite Mason. I'm very familiar with Pike's philosophy, and quite frankly, am not in need of someone not well versed in it to explain it to me.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 04:28 PM
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Quote: "For instance, in a regular constituted lodge the very Initiation itself is designed to create an effect within the candidate. This is why the Initiation must be performed correctly. The Signs and Symbolism is of paramount importance. You must take Geometry, Gnosis, and the
Grand Architect of the Universe into consideration. There is the issue of the point within the circle. There are deeper mysteries that I would dare not mention on this forum."

Hmm... OsirisRisen - I thought that you were Pushing the Anti-Mason Agenda? What Happened - did you have a Change of Heart? I take it that you yourself are not a Mason OsirisRisen. However - I see that you have Realized that all of this stuff is not just a bunch of Silly Non-Sense - it DEMANDS RESPECT! Not every Mason studies the Occult - but many do! The Fraternity of the Masonic Order must be taken Seriously! Rules & Protocols exist in the World for a REASON!

I myself study the Mysteries & let me tell you something - I really HATE it when Ignorant & Cowardly FOOLS call Free Thinking Intellectuals = "Satanists" on the NET. I do NOT Consider myself a "Satanist" - I do however consider myself a Free Thinking Intellectual.

I am not speaking about you Specifically OsirisRisen - but if I had a Dollar for every time I saw the SLANDEROUS INSULT mentioned Above on the NET - I would be Very Rich!


[edit on 1-2-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 1-2-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 1-2-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 1-2-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 04:35 PM
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Hogwash. As I've said before, ceremonial initiation is only symbolic of True Initiation, which occurs within. The actual ritual, by itself, means nothing. This is what several esoteric Masonic philophers have meant by saying that there are many Masons who have never set foot in a Lodge Room. Initiation is internal. Ceremony points out the proper direction, but it is ridiculous to believe that no one was enlightened until some guy wrote a ritual.


This is once again a misleading statement. Are you implying the Masonic initiations are pointless? Why have them? I never said anyone was enlightened until someone wrote a ritual. I never said that. Why does everyone keeping twisting everything that I say? Are you upset becuase I touched upon some truth? Don't worry I will not reveal too much.



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