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Hyper-Tribalism as our most assured route to De-Evolutionary Extinction

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posted on Feb, 27 2017 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Interesting hypothesis. Makes me think of 'conscious choice,' and Joseph Campbell's "Power of Myth." From wiki's entry:



In general, however, Campbell and Moyers, reach the conclusion that there is a lack of effective mythology and ritual in modern American society. They find nothing that compares with the powerful puberty rituals of primitive societies. They claim that the exclusion of classical studies from the modern educational syllabus has led to a lack of awareness of the mythological foundations of western society's heritage. This, combined with an increased materialism and emphasis on technology, has led to modern youth in New York, becoming alienated from the mainstream of society and inventing their own morality, initiations and gangs.





posted on Feb, 27 2017 @ 09:56 AM
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Enculturation and Socialization:

"Our social impulse arises from the so-called herd instinct inherited from our mammalian ancestors. The pleasure in gathering together with our own kind, found in most mammalian and avian life, is the source of community and fosters the model imperative; extended nurturing and care; mutual sharing of aesthetics, events, dreams, hopes, ideas and ideals; mutual appreciation of works, skills, creativity, cooperative ventures; and the sharing of the higher, broader expanses of love- love of neighbor, self, and god.

Enculturation, on the other hand, is not instinctual but instead the result of conditioning, our enforced learning and adoption of ideas about survival, including techniques believed necessary in our particular cultural environment in order to survive. Our imitative monkey-see, monkey-do compulsions actually arise from our oldest reptilian brain system, which is linked to survival and fight-or-flight injunctions of the old mammalian brain."



posted on Feb, 27 2017 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

De-evolution isn't a thing. There is no scientific basis behind that word and it functions purely as a political buzzword.

PS: You say you aren't a conservative, but topics like this paint you as one. No liberal would agree with any of this craziness that is.
edit on 27-2-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2017 @ 10:03 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

De-evolution isn't a thing. There is no scientific basis behind that word and it functions purely as a political buzzword.

PS: You say you aren't a conservative, but topics like this paint you as one. No liberal would agree with any of this craziness that is.


Uh huh. But I think he means "degeneration."
From wiki:



Current non-technical application of the concept of "devolution" is based largely on the fallacies that:

in biology there is a preferred hierarchy of structure and function, and that
evolution must mean "progress" to "more advanced" organisms with more complex structure and function.

Those errors in turn are related to two misconceptions: that:
evolution is supposed to make species more "advanced", as opposed to "primitive"; and that
modern species that have lost some of the functions or complexity of their ancestors must accordingly be degenerate forms. (Note however that degeneracy in this context has little to do with the current technical use of the term degeneracy in biology).


edit on 27/2/17 by soficrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2017 @ 10:08 AM
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a reply to: soficrow

On top of that, the time scales that evolution occurs under suggest that even IF de-evolution were a thing, society (as a whole from biblical times to today) hasn't existed long enough for any wide spread evolutionary changes to take hold. Radio, television, the internet, videos games, sjw, pc-police, or whatever the bogeyman of the day is that is contributing to our "de-evolution" haven't existed long enough for such a thing to occur.

Plus all this political rhetoric ignores the fact that my generation, the millennials, is literally the most educated generation in history. We will be surpassed by the generation under us and it will continue like that as more and more demographics are brought up to 1st world standards. There is no dumbing down of society. All it is, is people misapplying increased access to the goings on in places they didn't normally have access too. For instance, before the internet, you didn't go searching the local news in a State across the country just to find a story that agrees with your political slant.

If there is anything to make me completely write off an idea you are pitching, it is to pitch the idea of "social de-evolution". No matter how many words or posts you consume to relay your idea. It is 100% fallacious and there is no scientific model to explain such a thing.
edit on 27-2-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2017 @ 10:27 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: soficrow

On top of that, the time scales that evolution occurs under suggest that even IF de-evolution were a thing, society (as a whole from biblical times to today) hasn't existed long enough for any wide spread evolutionary changes to take hold. Radio, television, the internet, videos games, sjw, pc-police, or whatever the bogeyman of the day is that is contributing to our "de-evolution" haven't existed long enough for such a thing to occur.



Much evidence exists to suggest that so-called "evolution" can be extremely rapid. Check out "epigenetics."




...my generation, the millennials, is literally the most educated generation in history.



Pure culture-bound hubris. Other societies and generations, even ancient ones, arguably knew a helluva lot more than contemporary millennials - just different stuff. What you are really saying is that what you know now is more important than what they knew then. ...More relevant to your time, maybe, but only maybe. Methinks the effects of the deficits will become apparent momentarily.



If there is anything to make me completely write off an idea you are pitching, it is to pitch the idea of "social de-evolution".

...No matter how many words or posts you consume to relay your idea. It is 100% fallacious and there is no scientific model to explain such a thing.


Hmm. Not my thread, not my OP. In fact, I posted a wiki link supporting your claim that the concept of devolution is based on fallacies.

Shall I take your mistaken accusations against me as illustrating the intellectual prowess of "the most educated generation in history"?





edit on 27/2/17 by soficrow because: clarity



posted on Feb, 27 2017 @ 10:37 AM
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originally posted by: soficrow
Much evidence exists to suggest that so-called "evolution" can be extremely rapid. Check out "epigenetics."

First off, I think you meant to suggest punctuated equilibrium, but even that form of evolution still works across millions of years. Human society is 12,000 years old AT THE MOST. Humans, in their currently evolved state, got that way 200,000 years ago. The internet has existed for 20 years and hasn't even existed long enough for a generation to live and die under it. Social Justice is a product of the internet, so it has existed even less.



Pure culture-bound hubris. Other societies and generations, even ancient ones, arguably knew a helluva lot more than contemporary millennials - just different stuff. What you are really saying is that what you know now is more important than what they knew then. ...More relevant to your time, maybe, but only maybe. Methinks the effects of the deficits will become apparent momentarily.

Education used to only go to the elite that could afford it. Most people in a society of yesteryear were farmers or lived a simple life. It wasn't until the late 1800's that worldwide literacy rates started to skyrocket.

Also, I am not saying that what I know now is more important. It may be more true as science has progressed considerably since then, but it isn't more important.


Hmm. Not my thread, not my OP. In fact, I posted a wiki link supporting your claim that the concept of devolution is based on fallacies.

Shall I take your mistaken accusations against me as illustrating the intellectual prowess of "the most educated generation in history"?

I was agreeing with you with that post, mate.



posted on Feb, 27 2017 @ 10:56 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: soficrow
Much evidence exists to suggest that so-called "evolution" can be extremely rapid. Check out "epigenetics."

First off, I think you meant to suggest punctuated equilibrium, but even that form of evolution still works across millions of years.



No. I meant exactly what I said: Check out epigenetics (rapid evolutionary response mechanisms that confer heritable changes to gene expression without changing DNA). It's all quite elegant really.



The internet has existed for 20 years and hasn't even existed long enough for a generation to live and die under it. Social Justice is a product of the internet, so it has existed even less.



lol. The concept of Social Justice has existed in Western societies since Plato, at least. Much longer in other societies.


A Brief History of Social Justice: From Plato to Present Times

...the concept of social justice: a belief that everyone deserves an equal opportunity and right to lead a healthy and productive life.

It’s the basis of a value system that has been studied since the days of Plato. His famous writing from 380 BC, The Republic, spoke to the four virtues of Wisdom, Courage, Moderation, and Justice. As mankind evolved, so did the idea of justice. The tenets of fairness, sharing and equality were embraced by all of the world’s major religions, heralding justice above profit and greed.

The actual term “social justice” was first used in the 1840’s when members of the Jesuit religion introduced the phrase as being associated with teachings of St. Thomas Aquinas. The concept fully took hold and expanded outside of religious circles to be a concern of all peoples, in all societies. Social justice has long been a pillar of movements for a fair economic, political, and social system that works in cooperation for the greater good.






Education used to only go to the elite that could afford it. Most people in a society of yesteryear were farmers or lived a simple life. It wasn't until the late 1800's that worldwide literacy rates started to skyrocket.



True - but reading is not the only way to get an education. [Speaking as a voracious reader I would say it helps a lot.
]




I was agreeing with you with that post, mate.


Which would be why you said: "If there is anything to make me completely write off an idea you are pitching, it is to pitch the idea of "social de-evolution". ...No matter how many words or posts you consume to relay your idea. It is 100% fallacious and there is no scientific model to explain such a thing."

My mistake then. But it would help a lot if you did not employ the royal you. Or whatever it's called.




edit on 27/2/17 by soficrow because: lost post



posted on Feb, 27 2017 @ 11:07 AM
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originally posted by: soficrow
No. I meant exactly what I said: Check out epigenetics (rapid evolutionary response mechanisms that confer heritable changes to gene expression without changing DNA). It's all quite elegant really.

From what I'm reading up on epigenetics, the changes involved here aren't the type that the OP would be talking about to cause "devolution". Though your point is noted.



lol. The concept of Social Justice has existed in Western societies since Plato, at least. Much longer in other societies.

Well if you are going to go with that line of reasoning, then it supports my position. If social justice has existed all the way back to Plato's time, then it CLEARLY isn't a driver of our extinction.


True - but reading is not the only way to get an education. [Speaking as a voracious reader I would say it helps a lot.
]

Well higher education has a barrier of literacy that must be overcome to proceed further. Except maybe math, but eventually you'll need to be able to read to do that too.


Which would be why you said: "If there is anything to make me completely write off an idea you are pitching, it is to pitch the idea of "social de-evolution". ...No matter how many words or posts you consume to relay your idea. It is 100% fallacious and there is no scientific model to explain such a thing."

My mistake then. But it would help a lot if you did not employ the royal you. Or whatever it's called.

Sorry. My bad.



posted on Feb, 27 2017 @ 11:18 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

We're talking at cross-purposes. We agree that the concept of "devolution" is not valid biologically - yet you keep interpreting my statements as defending the OP's hypothesis.

I think I'd rather bow out than back up and sort things out. Time constraints. Thanks for the discussion tho.



posted on Feb, 27 2017 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: soficrow

Yeah it's probably just a side effect of the OP not being here to talk to. Though admittedly, you are politer than he tends to be.
edit on 27-2-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2017 @ 11:35 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Jesus Christ was a SJW. He recognized his racial and religious identity as a Hebrew, yet preached love, charity, and respect for the other such as his turn the other cheek philosophy and love thy enemy, which is probably just a statement to love the other (races and religions) other than ones own...


The fight for justice and equality transcends the tribal reality of humankind. It is an attempt to bring all human beings to a modicum of material, mental and spiritual equality when inequality is the norm and the macro resources in wealth and technology exists so all can reach a basic level of human existence outside of deep poverty and suffering.


The fact of our great technology and mass communication ability and still millions of children starve is an indictment on the political and spiritual bankruptcy of the people on this planet. WE NEED MORE SJW'S!


Its only been by the sacrifice of the SJW (Christ himself being probably the greatest one in history) that human progress has been made along the lines of peace, justice and equality.

I am proud to be a SJW



edit on 27-2-2017 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:35 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

You're clearly equating truth & humanitarianism with this new hyper cultish ideology people have come to call "Social Justice".

As I already articulated, you cant overcome the historical pitfalls of harsh tribalism and Hyper-Tribalism with yet more Hyper-Tribalism. Every historical example of Hyper-Tribalism I know about (and this is "my thing" afterall) always leads to rabid bigotry and wholesale oppression. Hell, even Christianity did (i.e. The Spanish Inquisition).

Despite appearances to some, this really wasn't meant to be an SJW bashing thread.

But if you have some other examples of harsh tribalism / Hyper-Tribalism for consideration please do interject.



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:39 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

De-evolution isn't a thing. There is no scientific basis behind that word and it functions purely as a political buzzword.

PS: You say you aren't a conservative, but topics like this paint you as one. No liberal would agree with any of this craziness that is.


I opened up by tearing the Neocon's and Christian Conservatives a new one (from way back) for their playing at this "Hyper-Tribalism concept that has been a deal breaking pet peeve of mine for over a decade now (where as far as I've noticed I'm the one 'pioneering' 'it'), but nope definitely a "conservative" because I also dared to deconstruct the Hyper-Tribalism of your SJW Cult. Nice try, brother.



Maybe if you read the entire thing without getting all offended, you might just be able to grasp my meaning here of "de-evolution".

Hint: This wasn't even 'about' "Social Justice", the SJW Cult is just but the latest iteration of mass scale "Hyper-Tribalism" that I've noted. And it has played out beyond expectations with break neck efficiency (with the help of the advent and mass diffusion of social media no doubt).
edit on 1-3-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:52 PM
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THE HIVE MIND - CROWD PSYCHOLOGY - Why Social Media Failed






www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 1-3-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:57 PM
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Gustave Le Bon: Crowd Psychology



posted on Mar, 1 2017 @ 09:59 PM
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Collective Behavior Civil Disturbances


[Presented by the United States Army, this film examines the psychological nature of American civil disturbances in effort to prepare military policeman to rationally manage the danger of such occurrences.
The film sets up the Revolutionary War as origin for a spirit of dissent and civil demonstration in the U.S. that is still alive. The film explains that this spirit of dissent and need to protect the right to do so is essential but can become tricky to manage because of the 'a narrow, narrow line civil between dissent and civil disturbance.' The film poses the questions 'When does dissension become disobedience? When does disobedience become disorder? When does a disorder become a civil disorder?,' the answers to which provide necessary info for how to rationally manage such occurrences. The film connects a rise in civil tension and impatience to America's youth, the disadvantaged African American community, other minority groups across the U.S., and women desiring equality. The film then explains in detail the stages ( 'High Tension Situations,' 'Initial Violence,' and 'Spread of Violence') by which disturbances develop and speaks to the variety of behaviors that can occur on large and small scale, among a group and with individuals, at each stage. We learn of the 'anonymity,' 'suggestibility,' 'imitated behavior,' and 'emotional contagion' that influence an individual's participation in disturbances generated by the crowd.

The film concludes by explaining the role of the military police in managing dissenting crowds, and emphasizes that they too are subject to and responsible for their emotional reactions. It goes on to note, that while the basic causes of disturbances cannot be controlled, the focus is preventing the acceleration of tension as groups gather in protest, which is made possible by understanding the psychological factors of civil disturbances.

This film was made for military police and soldiers on what causes civil disturbances and riots. A fairly enlightened film considering it was made by and for the Establishment. Lots of footage of demonstrations and rioting during America's late 1960s.]



posted on Mar, 2 2017 @ 06:49 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Yeah and I used to be a Conservative. People's political opinions evolve. You are definitely a conservative now even if you don't want to admit it. It's why I don't take you seriously in the slightest. All you do is write strawmen threads about liberals and then hide behind this lame excuse that you are independent. I have a bunch of conservative leaning threads in my post history, but I bet most of you won't agree with me calling myself conservative or independent these days.



posted on Mar, 2 2017 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm a Socio-Agnostic. My bitter foe is Hyper-Tribalism in all of its forms. Just because that's puts me at inherent intellectually bareknuckle odds with your jackboot SJW hypocrite brigades doesn't speak to me, it's speaks you Hyper-Tribalists.



edit on 2-3-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2017 @ 12:30 PM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm a Socio-Agnostic. I bitter foe is Hyper-Tribalism in all of its forms. Just because that's puts me at inherent intellectually bareknuckle odds with your jackboot SJW hypocrite brigades doesn't speak to me, it's speaks you Hyper-Tribalists.



Is that what you tell yourself to help you sleep at night?







 
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