Transgender Boy Wins in First Round of Girls Wrestling Tournament

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: ketsuko

So your solution is to just exclude them from ordinary activities? That's not very accepting.

Recreational co-ed sports leagues aren't ordinary activities?

This person would just be in a recreational league and wrestling either boys or girls. The issue remains the same.

a reply to: Aazadan

School sports should either be self funding or not exist. Schools are for educating first and it is patently ridiculous that so many American schools are wallowing in underfunded educational programs while still managing to fund sports activities from the same general pool of money. Title IX shouldn't exist, problem solved.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: ketsuko

So your solution is to just exclude them from ordinary activities? That's not very accepting.

Recreational co-ed sports leagues aren't ordinary activities?

This person would just be in a recreational league and wrestling either boys or girls. The issue remains the same.

People who participate in co-ed leagues know what they are getting into as opposed to boys or girls sports where you expect your opponents to be one sex or the other and not someone altered to be in between. But such a person would fit better in a co-ed league because you know you could be competing against persons of either sex and you signed on for that.

a reply to: ketsuko

So you're all for them being in leagues... just not your leagues.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

So if they self fund, such as all participants paying a cost to play. What's the problem with a transgender playing as long as they're willing to hand over the cash? Is their money not as good?

a reply to: Aazadan

The laws in Texas require that everyone is the gender on their birth certificate and according to that, Mack is female.

Many of you here have argued time after time after time that everything is decided by "plumbing", and by that measure, Mack is a girl.

And now, many of you are crying because he's not being treated as a boy. Now interestingly, Mack wants to wrestle as a boy, because that's what he is ... but Texas' law says he is a girl because that is what is on his birth certificate.

His testosterone levels are no higher or lower than the teenage boys he would be competing against ... so no, you can't make the argument that it wouldn't be fair for Mack to wrestle boys as a boy.

So ... as I watch some of your metaphorical heads burst as you try to turn half-gainers through hoops to justify to yourselves that Mack is a girl and a boy at the same time ... honestly, I'm laughing to the point of tears.

Mack is a boy. Look at him. What do your eyes tell you?

Only in the twisted hateful illusion that some are caught in would that obvious fact be denied.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: ketsuko

So you're all for them being in leagues... just not your leagues.

I'm all for leagues being fair.

It is not fair for a girl or woman to compete against someone whose been juicing on testosterone for the same reason it isn't fair for them to compete against another woman or girl who has been using steroids for the same reason you don't see them competing against biological men in the serious competitive leagues.

You seem to be all about equality trumping fair play.

a reply to: seasonal

Yeah , He Da Man ! ........Ah , Er , Hmm...

originally posted by: scojak
a reply to: seasonal

Oh boy. I mean oh girl. I mean.... we're in for some interesting times. I mean we are literally taking a situation that is unfair for a few (often by personal choice rather than a birth defect) and making it unfair for the masses. How does that make any sense? Life sucks sometimes, deal with it. Don't force the rest of the country to suffer because you got a bad wrap, or even worse, because you don't like being a boy or girl.

At this rate, in the near future it is going to be illegal to hurt someones feelings.

Is that not already the case?

I need my safe place to contemplate this..

a reply to: seasonal

Exactly. It's almost like saying that if I had no legs, and got bionic legs, then I could get into a muay thai competition and when I kicked the opponents spleen out, it would be fair.

not fair at all.. it's 100% enhancing the performance here, against unequal opponents that do not feel they are the wrong gender.

Boils down to the policy though. S/he should be wrestling boys if s/he feels they are male. And that's it. Not a policy of "based on your birth gender as written on your b/c" which to me implies it has been newly written, at least recently, because who would ever create such a rule when boys are boys and girls are girls...

Now showering and sharing private facilities with them? I'll leave that alone, because there is no solution there...

originally posted by: intrptr


Transgender? Lol, not in the ring.

Oh snap. I hope you intended that because it's a zinger.

a reply to: Gryphon66

He is an innie, not a boy.

It is his decision to do this.
It is like having an elective procedure that needs a long recovery time and complaining that it is taking too long and you can't be active.

His testosterone levels are no higher or lower than the teenage boys he would be competing against ... so no, you can't make the argument that it wouldn't be fair for Mack to wrestle boys as a boy.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: burdman30ott6

So if they self fund, such as all participants paying a cost to play. What's the problem with a transgender playing as long as they're willing to hand over the cash? Is their money not as good?

Nothing at all, as long as they have a transgender opponent to go against. If they don't, so be it. There are good reasons sexes are used to divide people in physical competitions, I see no reason to change that whatsoever.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I normally stay out of the transgender threads, they get nearly as ridiculous as abortion threads.

My personal opinion on this is that we should take each person on a case by case basis. I fully agree that this person should be wrestling against boys. However, what if you had a transgener who wasn't on hormone therapy and it was merely a matter of clothing? Just like Mack, that person would identify as a male and have female genetalia, but their body makeup would be substantially different.

As a result, when it comes to activities I don't think you can simply define things along the lines of their physical parts or of their identity.

I think the fairest solution for school activities would be to include as part of a physical a doctor making a determination of if the person is closer to male or female, and that determining what teams they play for. Physicals are easy to get, often a requirement for school/sports anyways, and a doctor is qualified to make that determination.

The bathroom/lockerroom issue gets a bit trickier. Unisex bathrooms would be great, but it's also not reasonable to expect all the various private businesses out there to renovate their buildings. School lockerrooms could be determined by a physical just as sports teams are, but that's not reasonable for a public lockerroom like a swimming pool. If it were up to me I would say to let people default to what they feel comfortable doing, and if other patrons think someone is being a pervert then let security handle it.

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

If she is a she, then wrestle girls-unless she is on performance enhancing drugs.

One the reassignment surgery is done, Bingo wrestle for real.

This person is narcissistic in wanting everyone to bend to their will and be NICE and FAIR, and not for a second considering others and how UNFAIR he (she) is being.

So what does a penis or lack thereof have to do with a clothed wrestling match?

Was it not just you, in the post you left prior to this one, saying "Just because she has a vajayjay"...

Now this?

Flip flopping much?

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
Why do progressives hate science?

It is a biological fact that males are naturally much stronger than females due to higher testosterone levels.

It isn't progressives keeping him from wrestling the other guys.

Yep... and if you were to become trans and take hormone treatment, and we were to arm wrestle, and you won. I'd accept that.... I still don't expect that we should then go shower together.

originally posted by: MysticPearl
So why can't boys/men take steroids as this girl is, in order to become even more masculine?

Why can't they say I identify as the biggest beat of a man there is, so I want steroids to achieve that? I knew many skinny boys who'd have loved to take steroids to become more masculine, in their eyes. What about their feelings?

I'm sure there is a policy that meat men can only wrestle bears, as long as the bear identifies as a genetic male.

a reply to: Aazadan

I don't think it takes a DR.

This is all silly.

The parent should have said look in the mirror. You wanted this you got it all, good and bad.

And then told him this is an imperfect world.

And then not signed the slip to let him wrestle girls.

a reply to: seasonal

But, he should be able to wrestle boys based on his physique... right?

Any competent doctor would tell you, that person physically resembles a boy, and should be on a boys team.

The fact that he's wrestling girls is purely a failure of the Texas government.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Aazadan
I would not expect the restroom thing to work the way it has since restrooms were being used.

Shut up and use the one you look like.

No don't you see, it's the same, because using the toilet is a physical and competitive sport.