Transgender Boy Wins in First Round of Girls Wrestling Tournament

This whole thing is ridiciulous. At this point I would just just F it, lets set up transgender bathrooms and transgender sports teams. Let them participate in *transgender* specific activities. I'm sure they will still complain anyways. "Why should I have to play on the transgender team? Just because I have the muscles and stamina of a man doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to dominate everyone on the woman team."

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Which bathroom should Mack use again?

Did I hear an answer to that question?

Red herring. We're talking about sports and anabolic steroids

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Which bathroom should Mack use again?

Did I hear an answer to that question?

Red herring. We're talking about sports and anabolic steroids

he has a point..someone said that Mack just shouldnt play sports...should he just not use the bathroom either?

originally posted by: tehdouglas
This whole thing is ridiciulous. At this point I would just just F it, lets set up transgender bathrooms and transgender sports teams. Let them participate in *transgender* specific activities. I'm sure they will still complain anyways. "Why should I have to play on the transgender team? Just because I have the muscles and stamina of a man doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to dominate everyone on the woman team."

so separate but equal?

a reply to: Gryphon66

what you on about true colours if you are implying I have an issue because he is trans then you are wrong in your judgement of me ,I couldnt care if he is trans , gay , straight, an alien or has green eyes or a penis I just think its unfair for one person to have an advantage over others in the true sense of sportsmanship.

and as such he would have an unfair advantage because of the hormone treatements giving more muscle mass !
is that not what they are making an issue of in the first place ? if I am wrong then so be it.

laws are felxible or at least they should be continually revised and updated like science is , in order to prevent stupidity like this.

I still think its unfair to be made to wrestle girls when he clearly wants to be a boy let him wrestle boys.

a reply to: tehdouglas

I would like to see the girls boycott the whole shooting match.

Maybe a sit in?

Maybe a hunger strike?

Or would that be too divisive?

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Xtrozero

if a transgender Male to Female went into a girls restroom, the women in the bathroom would never know that she was a male at birth, this is a non-issue

I think he meant female to male trans, can choose either male or female bathroom. But should be arrested if going into a female bathroom, not the reverse.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Gryphon66

what you on about true colours if you are implying I have an issue because he is trans then you are wrong in your judgement of me ,I couldnt care if he is trans , gay , straight, an alien or has green eyes or a penis I just think its unfair for one person to have an advantage over others in the true sense of sportsmanship.

and as such he would have an unfair advantage because of the hormone treatements giving more muscle mass !
is that not what they are making an issue of in the first place ? if I am wrong then so be it.

laws are felxible or at least they should be continually revised and updated like science is , in order to prevent stupidity like this.

I still think its unfair to be made to wrestle girls when he clearly wants to be a boy let him wrestle boys.

So you're in favor of testing all high-school boys to make sure that they have the same levels of testosterone?

So that everything will be fair?

I mean no disrespect, but logically if T makes all the difference in fairness in sport, we should make sure it's equal, right?

I agree that Mack should be able to wrestle like every other boy.

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: swimmer15
a reply to: veracity

No my argument is testosterone is banned for a reason, and there is no matrix whatsoever that can keep competition fair by saying some get to use it while others can not. So we either allow it to be used or we don't. No wishy washy bs reasoning that says some reasons are justified while some are not.

having testosterones being regulated by a doctor is not wishy washy

The UFC allowed fighters with medical conditions to take testosterone closely monitored by their physicians. They took constant tests to make sure they dosed testosterone to normal levels.

It turns out those tests are easy to cheat. It resulted in Vitor Belfort and Chael Sonnen juicing on doctor prescribed anabolic steroids like the Incredible Hulk.

Trying to be kind to a few athletes with legitimate medical conditions completely ruined the sport for everyone else. Several fighters got knocked out cold and suffered brain damage, ending their careers. The fans had to suffer the joke for several years.

Now no one can take testosterone because the UFC learned its lesson the hard way. Sucks for guys with real medical conditions but it has to be this way.

The UFC tried what you're recommending in the real world and it was an absolute disaster.

a reply to: veracity

Nothing at all!

mobile.nytimes.com...

There is a reason it's banned accrossed the board in sports and should stay that way at least if you feel steroids should be banned. Which me personally I don't care either way. For users there are great disadvantages to them. With all I have read about, there are the bodies own production, tendon, joint, cardiovascular and a whole host of other tradeoffs. Good bad I don't judge, up to the person and their situation if worth it.. as for sports, it's been proven that doctors, athletes etc if can get away they will, too much money involved in sports to keep them honest.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Abysha

How are all of you missing this? This is a problem created by conservatives.

It is interesting that up until now it has been their choice, now you suggest we limit it. Ok, I can agree, but that has not been the party line on this...

Case in point. If I go into a female bathroom I would be arrested, so should a transgender male be arrested too by your logic, but that is not the way it is, now is it... It is all still their choice...

If it is illegal for men to be in women's restrooms then yes, you and your hypothetical trans man should both get in trouble for doing so. I'm not sure you actually understand the civil rights position on this.

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Which bathroom should Mack use again?

Did I hear an answer to that question?

Red herring. We're talking about sports and anabolic steroids

he has a point..someone said that Mack just shouldnt play sports...should he just not use the bathroom either?

Does taking anabolic steroids effect other people using the bathroom like it does in sports? No? Then red herring.

a reply to: Gryphon66

No I think that its unfair to make him wrestle against females because he is trans , when his birth cert say otherwise
and he clearly wants to wrestle against males which he wants to be !

my problem is that its unfair on him to make him wrestle females when he wants to be male , and that its unfair on the girls because he has an unfair advantage having developed more muscle mass etc .

However its not unusual to see a female his age with the same muscle mass !
I jsut think its PC bs gone mad , clearly he wants to be male and wrestle males , just let him wrestle males and be done with it.

Im not in favour of testing all boys testosterone , im specifically referring to the testosterone giving an unfair advantage to him wrestling females

is that not what the issue is ?
because he wants to be male but is made to wrestle females and is unfairly matched

a reply to: RedDragon

The UFC's TRT program was a disaster, my opinion comes heavily from watching how the program was practiced and the results/abuse of it.

Frank Mir (probably legit considering his injuries over the year), Vitor and Sonnen (giving past steroid use, probably need it), Overeem (although wasn't part of program his performance on and off steroids is one best to highlight the difference on and off makes), Henderson (im huge fan) and a host of others... all of which though, on where competing at the highest of levels, off they are calling on them all to retire..Bigfoot Silva is another fighting for belt on, off people saying retire before he gets killed in ring... all those guys where on the UFC's TRT program (minus Overeem) and all took advantage even under a close eye.

why the F bring this up so what ?

Here's the thing though, if genitals do not determine gender, neither do hormones.

You can be in a female body and consider yourself male gender wise or in a male body and consider yourself female gender wise.

Now if you want to be physically like a male or physically like a female, that is another thing, but we've already established that it is unnecessary to be physically of the same gender you identify as to be that gender, as we've determined physical body does not determine gender.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

And you seem to avoid the question: IF testosterone levels are the determinant as some have argued here for success in sport, i.e. testosterone is a performance enhancer, then shouldn't boys be tested to make sure they have the same levels?

If not, the one's that are higher have the advantage ... according to the logic here ... right?

Actually I was agreeing with you by being sarcastic..

At what point would we say it is a sports enhancer? How much do they need? I'm 57 and of course I have low T, so I take 200mil every 2 weeks, so I would bet they are close to that or the same since that is a standard amount for normalizing. If I was trying to enhance for sports I would be on a 500mil plus PER WEEK regimen. A hell of a lot more....

originally posted by: RedDragon

Is your argument really coming down to making asthma inhalers equal to anabolic steroids?

The argument is not what is used, it is that it is medically needed, so you are suggesting that we limit medically required treatments if a person wants to do sports.

originally posted by: Abysha

If it is illegal for men to be in women's restrooms then yes, you and your hypothetical trans man should both get in trouble for doing so. I'm not sure you actually understand the civil rights position on this.

That is true on paper, but I'm suggesting that is not the way it actually plays out in the real world....

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Gryphon66

And you seem to avoid the question: IF testosterone levels are the determinant as some have argued here for success in sport, i.e. testosterone is a performance enhancer, then shouldn't boys be tested to make sure they have the same levels?

If not, the one's that are higher have the advantage ... according to the logic here ... right?

Actually I was agreeing with you by being sarcastic..

At what point would we say it is a sports enhancer? How much do they need? I'm 57 and of course I have low T, so I take 200mil every 2 weeks, so I would bet they are close to that or the same since that is a standard amount for normalizing. If I was trying to enhance for sports I would be on a 500mil plus PER WEEK regimen. A hell of a lot more....

Curious -- if you're going to be on TRT anyways, why not just go on 500 mil + per week to be superman instead of 200 mil just to be normal?