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The pros and cons of immigration policy

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posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 07:09 PM
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Not specifically about Trump, or America.

I'm just interested in peoples views, I have mine but I'm always willing to hear other, even opposing views.

Nothing I believe is set in stone, if someone makes a good point I'll gladly take it on board.

Here's my honest take on it:


I live in the UK, my day to day life I work in a hotel as a maintenance technician. I love my job, I've worked in hotels for the last 10 years. It's one of those jobs where you work and deal with people from all corners of the globe and can be really interesting.

I get on well with most people and have a reasonably high quality of life. It has changed over the last 20 years or so...I'll elaborate.

When I left school I got a job in the electronics industry, I worked for IBM and was earning close to 20,000 at one point while I was a teenager.

I hadn't a care in the world.

I then went to college and worked part-time, earning a little less but on a bursary. I left college and got a job manufacturing windows, I was earning about 18,000 a year.

The 2008 global econimic meltdown started and I went to work in the hotel industry earning about 18,000 a year. By now I'm doing a much more skilled job, I'm proficient in all aspects of maintenance work - joinery, painting and decorating, plumbing, heating, ventilation and cooling, have gained a city and guilds (17th Edition, wiring regs) so I'm more skilled now than when I was 18 working on a production line acting basically as a human robot.

I now earn 16,000 a year.

On my way to work every day I see homeless people huddled in shop doorways. When I go out for lunch I see a lot of people begging for change. Some natives, some not.

I see my relatives and friends, some who are ill and unable to work - struggle to pay rent and heat their homes. I see my own mother who is almost 60 struck off the sick and told she's fit to work.

At the same time I see, mostly privileged types, college and uni students, protest that there is opposition to brining more and more people into our country.

I see my own people struggle...I see a failing government who cannot house everyone. And it makes me angry. I don't resent the foreign people who want to come here...this used to be a good place to live, but things have changed. I'm living proof of it, I should be doing far better than I am but thankfully I don't really want or need much and am comfortable.


But not everyone is comfortable...you have to realise, that others aren't doing as well as you. You can;'t base your views on how well you and your friends and family are doing.

If you see sick people being forced to work, and people sleeping rough. If you see people beg for change on your streets, your country is sick. A sick country has no business offering aid or help to other countries. This si why people are voting Trump, Le Pen, this is why there's a rise in right-wing parties.

It's not about the foreigners, it's about the already poor being kicked in the teeth by their own, it's thr screw you these guys are more important type of attitude.

you go on youTube and type "benefits britain" and see the numerous television shows made over the last 10 years demonising native people her ein the UK who are claiming benefits for whatever reason, be they sick or lazy it matters not.

We see austerity being imposed on our people...and we think...what's the sense in bringing in more people? If you can't manage things as they are, how is this helping them or us? If there isn't enough to go 'round..and there apparently isn't, what are we to do? Divide the scraps among us?

It's not hatred for foreginers that drives my passion in the slightest, it's loyalty and compassion for the people I see EVERY DAY with my own two eyes.

It has to stop. If I saw less poverty in my own back yard I'd be far more tolerant to immigration. We didn't complain 20 or so years ago when Bosnian folks came here following all that stuff in the 90's, or 10 or so years ago when a lot of eastern europeans started to come to the UK.

I don't want to deny anyone a better life. We need to fix what's already broken before we take on new projects.


Tha's my take on it, and I hope people can understand that. Trump is actually trying to do what's right, nobody criticises Australia for it's stringent immigration policies and the criteria that must be met. It's common sense.


ETA - I think I may have posted this in the wrong forum as I don't particularly want this thread to spiral into a slanging match, I was civil and honest discourse.

It's up to the mods but appy if it's moved to a less volatile and more suitable forum.
edit on 24-2-2017 by HeathenJessie because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 07:25 PM
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Controlled immigration is good. It has to be legal immigration. Border hoppers and visa over stayers should be deported IMO.

Obviously, America cannot and should not take in millions of immigrants in a given year.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 07:26 PM
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Hmm, perhaps not interested in the realities of the situation.

I suppose it detracts fro the protesting and outrage.

My biggest fear is this - there's an obvious pattern emergine here. More people == less jobs, devaluation of professions and lower wages and living standards.

The fact that life gets more expensive while living wages continue to drop is worrying, not for me , but for the future. My neice, nephew, siblings.

If there's such a drop in standards over a period of sawy 10-15 years, what's it going to be like in 2030 if we've continued to bring more and more people in?

More poor people. More homeless people. More beggars on the streets, lower wages, greater living expenses. I fear for the future of this country.

The average man on the street is starting to see it for themselves and we're left wondering why so many are either blind to it or simply happy to deny it and carry on being blissfully ignorant of the truth that's right before them.

The only alternative, the only realistic option is for the common man to turn to your UKIPs and front nationale.

I stand back and take stock of this, and it's clear that there's some agenda being played out...I do not know by whom or what the ultimate plan is but it's sinister. For our government to not notice what the average joe can clearly see...for the activists who used to be against globalisation and the black hand of the man - now fighting the very corner they opposed for so long. It is scary, and it ain't Trump or Le Pen that scares me.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 07:29 PM
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a reply to: fandancego

Definitely control.

After the whole Brexit thing I had a chat with some people about it at work, some people were worried thinking they would be kicked out of the UK.

Nobody wants that...these people are part of the UK, they work steady jobs and contribute. We now need people to come here and work and most people I know don't have a problem with that at all.

I'd lose friends if people were to be deported. But even some foreign, eastern europan folk I know admit and realise that things have gotten a bit out of control. They're losing out, too. The UK isn't as attractive a place to live and work as it used to be.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 07:39 PM
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Recently i looked nto getting back into manufacturing.

I left a job about a year ago and moved to another hotel, took a small wage drop but nothing major. My old job, the one I left, the team dropped from 8 to 5 practically overnight when they went into administration.

We basically had to work twice as hard for the same wage...we got the usual spiel, we're all in this together we'll get through it..they did get through it and pulled out of a hole.

But decided they could manage with 5 guys and to stick with that. Part of me was thinking, yeah the whole financial crisis and admin thing worked out pretty well for you guys, what about us?

That aside, I found some mf'ing jobs that matched my skills and experience, mostly minimum wage and many of them offering zero hour contracts only.

I worked with a young lad who was a waiter in my previous job. He had 3...yes 3 jobs, all zero hour.

If one job called him for a shift and it happened to conflict with a shift in one of his other jobs, he had to reject that shift and was less likely to be offered work in the future.

Here's a young lad, just out of school no money and living with his parents...has 3 jobs and isn't guaranteed a single hour of work!

3 jobs and can go an entire week without earning a penny!

this is the real world.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 07:51 PM
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Good old zero hour contracts. Tory check mate to labours minimum wages law.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 07:53 PM
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a reply to: Pandaram

It must be disheartening and depressing for a young man moving out into the world...to have 3 jobs and no guarantees that he'll make rent at the end of the month.

I honestly can't see what the attraction is any more, I wouldn't want to move here.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 07:59 PM
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originally posted by: HeathenJessie
a reply to: Pandaram

It must be disheartening and depressing for a young man moving out into the world...to have 3 jobs and no guarantees that he'll make rent at the end of the month.

I honestly can't see what the attraction is any more, I wouldn't want to move here.


Tell me about it... gov sectors are not good either. i know lot of nurses are moving to aus and new Zealand.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 08:04 PM
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a reply to: HeathenJessie

Is only one side of the immigration laws and policies that we have in the US, they have been ignored for decades.

The promises of immigration reform after we have amnesty are always put on the back burner after passing them to appease the both side, one side that wants those laws to be done and the other that wants open borders, while the nation gets again full of illegal immigrations again and again and again.

We already have laws, is a darn time we put them to work.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 08:04 PM
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double post.
edit on 24-2-2017 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 08:06 PM
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It is true that white people have a mutation in their brain that makes them make machines. Dutch make wind mills to grind. Non white people use manual labor to grind. It is understandable many whites are not comfortable with non whites immigrating to their countries.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 08:09 PM
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originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: HeathenJessie

Is only one side of the immigration laws and policies that we have in the US, they have been ignored for decades.

The promises of immigration reform after we have amnesty are always put on the back burner after passing them to appease the both side, one side that wants those laws to be done and the other that wants open borders, while the nation gets again full of illegal immigrations again and again and again.

We already have laws, is a darn time we put them to work.



Uk immigration problam is not the illegal ones but the legal ones. Every year There was millons of Romanians and Bulgarians are pouring in to jobs. No to mention other eastern Europeans.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 08:12 PM
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Half the population in UAE are not even citizens. They are southern Asian guest workers. They are not illegal immigrants. They are not undocumented. They are legally there on visa to work and they do not over stay their visas. So they are not deported. Or else they get deported. UAE does not have political correctness.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 08:15 PM
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The US should emulate UAE when it comes to immigrants. No fuss. All clean. Rich country.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 08:17 PM
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originally posted by: fandancego
It is true that white people have a mutation in their brain that makes them make machines. Dutch make wind mills to grind. Non white people use manual labor to grind. It is understandable many whites are not comfortable with non whites immigrating to their countries.


Not true.
Yes. white men are not comfortable with none white immigrants. But Cultural Studies and home made video sites shows White women think otherwise .



edit on 24-2-2017 by Pandaram because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 08:36 PM
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a reply to: HeathenJessie



If you see sick people being forced to work, and people sleeping rough. If you see people beg for change on your streets, your country is sick. A sick country has no business offering aid or help to other countries. This is why people are voting Trump, Le Pen, this is why there's a rise in right-wing parties.


Unfortunately, at least here in the US, it's the right-wing party that also wants to cut the social safety net, as well as environmental and consumer protection and oversight. It's the right wing party that's against raising minimum wage, family leave and wants to cut food stamps.....make it so charter and private schools, receiving federal funding, are not required to meet disability guidelines.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 08:37 PM
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a reply to: windword

The right wing believes in natural selection. The strong live. The weak die. As in accordance with natural law. Humans are smarter than apes because of natural selection.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 09:01 PM
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I've been battling this for the past 20+ years. Back in the 1990's I worked for a company in Edinburgh - they were so successful that they won a $180 million national contract (the salesman had a 1.5% commission). Next thing our two architects moved to Silicon Valley. Then the Scottish Executive instructed our company to have a "Fresh Talent Initiative" and not to promote any existing employees. Everyone including myself was forced to leave. I found myself "Room 101'ed". They didn't fire us - they just didn't give us any work to do. I was lucky enough to find a MSc for a year.

I went to the North of England to start a job - only to find myself switched onto something completely different because somebody in the head office in London decided they wanted the most qualified person to work that other thing. I saw the work I was going to do, go to a foreign worker.

Then I tried doing a PhD - everything went to plan up to the point I published my first international paper. Then all hell broke loose - an alumni international student demanded that I hand over all work to him - I refused and I ended up having my PhD dragged out for four years. Then it was impossible to find work locally because I had been out of industry for over five years.

There is an explanation why they government is treating natives like crap - first reason is to prevent Brain Drain - where bright natives emigrated due to a lack of career opportunities in their chosen profession.

The other possible reason is the Coudenhove-Kalergi plan.



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 02:22 AM
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So you are on dole now?



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 06:24 AM
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a reply to: stormcell

Stories like this are all too common.

I'm not really interested in what side wants what, right or left. I stand by my position that if there are people in your back yard living in poverty, or highly skilled individuals struggling to find work there's clearly a problem.

It'd be nice if there were plenty of well paid jobs around for everyine, immigrants included...but it's simply not the case.

It's hard seeing the people you care about struggle, it's even harder knowing the youth face a potentially more bleak future.

Appreciate the input and reasoned responses, thankyou.



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