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Hebrews8;- The new covenant

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posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 05:02 PM
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The epistle to the Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians, perhaps to a specific Jewish church.
The message of the letter is that Christ has brought “completeness”.
That is, God is making available, through him, a much greater and more decisive revelation than anything they have received from him previously

In the seventh chapter the writer drew upon the Old Testament statements about Melchizedek, for the purpose of identifying Jesus as the great High Priest, exalted above the heavens and established as priest “for ever”.
So he begins the eighth chapter by re-affirming that this is the chief point [KEPHALIAON] of what he has been writing to them.
Namely, the fact that we have such a High Priest, one who is seated at the “right hand” of the Father in heaven.
Thus, like Melchizedek, he is both king and priest at the same time (ch8 v1).

This brings us back to the opening of the letter.
The writer originally declared that the Son sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high “when he had made purification for sins” (ch1 v3).
This picture has now been extended by the introduction of the continuing ministry in heaven.

The “High Priest” function of Jesus is part of the answer to some of the difficulties which will have been troubling the readers of this latter.
They would have been asking “Why did Jesus have to die?”
The crucifixion was a “stumbling-block” to the Jews. It did not fit their previous understanding of an expected Messiah.
The answer is that, as a priest, he needed to have something that he could present as an offering.
The necessary offering was his own life (v3).
There will be a fuller explanation of that in the following chapters.

And like the rest of their generation, they would have been perturbed by the continued waiting for Jesus to return. “Why does he have to stay away?”
Again, part of the explanation is in his priesthood. He could not have been a priest while remaining on earth, because there would have been no room for him to act. An existing priesthood was already in place (and must have been still in place at the time of writing), serving and offering gifts under the conditions of the law (v4).

Yet the task of priesthood cannot be left to these earthly priests, because they are not serving in the “true” sanctuary, the one which God set up himself.
The place where they are serving is only a copy of the heavenly sanctuary.
That can be proved from the instruction to Moses, where he was told to follow the “pattern” that was shown to him on the mountain (v5).
So that is what keeps Christ in heaven; he is the priest of the true offering in the heavenly sanctuary.

In any case, the ministry of Christ must be superior to theirs, because it was based on a better covenant.
It must be a better covenant, because it was based on better promises- namely the promises to Abraham and Melchizedek, as explained in the previous chapters (v6)

Furthermore, such a new covenant was prophesied in the words of Jeremiah (vv8-12)
God promised his people, through the prophet, that this new covenant would be unlike the covenant which was established when they left Egypt.
Since they had neglected the old covenant, he would replace it with a covenant which could not be neglected.
He would make direct contact with them, and place his laws immediately within their hearts.
The covenant relationship would be re-established- “I shall be their God, and they shall be my people”.
It would no longer be necessary for men to speak to each other, encouraging one other to “know the Lord” (something which must have been happening, then, even in Jeremiah’s time).
“For all shall know me, from the least of them to the greatest”.
And there would be a final and complete forgiveness; “I will remember their sins no more”.

The very name of the New Testament is a claim to be fulfilling that promise.
For “write my laws within their hearts”, we must understand the work of the Holy Spirit. That is what Paul means when he says “we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit” (Romans ch7 v6).
The offer of complete forgiveness is the central message of the New Testament.
The main current shortfall is “all shall know me”. The most we have been given so far is “all may know me”, though “from the least of them to the greatest” is already applicable.
It is still necessary that people should make the evangelistic appeal of “know the Lord” .
To that extent, the fulfilment of the new covenant remains incomplete.

The main point, for the purposes of this letter, is that the promise of a new covenant, in itself, demonstrates the inadequacy of the old covenant. “In speaking of a new covenant, he treats the first as obsolete” (v11).
It must be out of date, ready to fade away.
Therefore God’s people should not be tempted to return to it.




posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 05:21 PM
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And sadly how many Christians don't get it
The old covenant, the Old Testament laws are over in Christ
I see and hear so many christians still following the law, as if they think they can earn heaven and Gods grace. As if they think they have to
The Old covenant was replaced with the law (for want of a better word) of love. Let love guide your life
This message seems lost on the church, still
I guess people need to be religious



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 05:24 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman
Or replaced by the Spirit, which should come to the same thing.
Thank you for those comments.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 08:20 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
And sadly how many Christians don't get it
The old covenant, the Old Testament laws are over in Christ
I see and hear so many christians still following the law, as if they think they can earn heaven and Gods grace. As if they think they have to
The Old covenant was replaced with the law (for want of a better word) of love. Let love guide your life
This message seems lost on the church, still
I guess people need to be religious


Kinda like how Christians still pay tithes, when tithing was clearly a form of agricultural tax to support the Levitical Priesthood.
edit on 24-2-2017 by BELIEVERpriest because: expanded point



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 12:21 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Raggedyman
Or replaced by the Spirit, which should come to the same thing.
Thank you for those comments.



Or replaced by the Holy Spirit
The down side is the Spirit is very hard to hear with all the noise of this life
What's the secret to amplifying that still,quiet voice I wonder



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 12:23 AM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: Raggedyman
And sadly how many Christians don't get it
The old covenant, the Old Testament laws are over in Christ
I see and hear so many christians still following the law, as if they think they can earn heaven and Gods grace. As if they think they have to
The Old covenant was replaced with the law (for want of a better word) of love. Let love guide your life
This message seems lost on the church, still
I guess people need to be religious


Kinda like how Christians still pay tithes, when tithing was clearly a form of agricultural tax to support the Levitical Priesthood.


True, tithes are a tax, we don't need to pay tithes
We give because we love



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 01:10 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman
The fault really lies in the churches which demand tithing, legalistically.




edit on 25-2-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 02:05 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
Therefore God’s people should not be tempted to return to it.

An interesting turn of phrase; "God's people".
And what about those Jews, they give it great meaning.
Or are they not "God's people"?
It sounds like the only way to be "God's people" is if you are infested with Xtian 'beliefs', as opposed to the dirty little 'beliefs' of the heathens (anyone not Xtian)!?

So, you are a Xtian who thinks that the ten commandments are obsolete?
That the entire bible (as opposed to the NT) can now be 'done away with' for all Xtians?
All that 'belief food' discarded uneaten?



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 02:13 AM
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a reply to: namelesss
The New Testament position is that the Old Testament is the first foundation of the faith, but needs to be properly understood (Paul comments that the Jews were reading it "through a veil").
"God's people" begins as a description of those who belong to God in the Old Testament, and then expands to extend to those Gentiles and those Jews who have understood him in the New Testament way.



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 03:31 AM
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originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: DISRAELI
Therefore God’s people should not be tempted to return to it.

An interesting turn of phrase; "God's people".
And what about those Jews, they give it great meaning.
Or are they not "God's people"?
It sounds like the only way to be "God's people" is if you are infested with Xtian 'beliefs', as opposed to the dirty little 'beliefs' of the heathens (anyone not Xtian)!?

So, you are a Xtian who thinks that the ten commandments are obsolete?
That the entire bible (as opposed to the NT) can now be 'done away with' for all Xtians?
All that 'belief food' discarded uneaten?




Infested with Christian beliefs, what like Jesus is God, He wants us to love Him and each other above all...all those infested Xian beliefs
Why? Did you have some other beliefs for us to believe?

Did you want Xians to stone people, judge people, go to war
It's funny, complaining if Christians follow the laws of the OT and now complaining that we don't do it the way you want us to

You know what nameless one, it doesn't have to be discarded, you can become a Jew if you like

Try this,
Old Testament is the old covenant
The New Testament is the new covenant

If you have a question, please just ask it rather than making innuendo statements



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest




Kinda like how Christians still pay tithes, when tithing was clearly a form of agricultural tax to support the Levitical Priesthoonly
The bible is a massive amount of data .Its possible to torture any data set to make it confess to what ever you want . You are correct about the tithes .It could even go further and say that they had to come from the tribe of levi its self ,though I may be wrong on that .



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 10:07 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman




The down side is the Spirit is very hard to hear with all the noise of this life What's the secret to amplifying that still,quiet voice I wonder
Reading the word would be #1 but the Sprite has a mandate to point us always towards Jesus Christ .I would suggest that with the Sprite working in us and having Jesus as a central point ,the believer can look at the world around him and filter the bad from the good and come to conclusions that will please God .

This good bad , thesis anti-thesis works its self out with that small voice you seek . To better understand the process read the Hegelian dialectic ...peace



posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 08:10 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Well, Abraham paid a tithe to the King-priest, Melchizedek, and all believers in the Church Age are royal priests in Christ (Rev 6:1), so the next time a pastor starts collecting tithes, get up and start collecting 10% from everyone around you.




posted on Feb, 25 2017 @ 11:27 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Raggedyman




The down side is the Spirit is very hard to hear with all the noise of this life What's the secret to amplifying that still,quiet voice I wonder
Reading the word would be #1 but the Sprite has a mandate to point us always towards Jesus Christ .I would suggest that with the Sprite working in us and having Jesus as a central point ,the believer can look at the world around him and filter the bad from the good and come to conclusions that will please God .

This good bad , thesis anti-thesis works its self out with that small voice you seek . To better understand the process read the Hegelian dialectic ...peace


Hegelian dialectic...hmmm
It's interesting but will take a bit of study and I am not in study mode right now.
It's interesting to consider the Spirit the synthesis

Hmmmm...
Cheers



posted on Feb, 26 2017 @ 03:08 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: namelesss
The New Testament position is that the Old Testament is the first foundation of the faith,

It is not uncommon to conflate 'beliefs' with 'Faith', even while they are complete opposites.


"God's people" begins as a description of those who belong to God in the Old Testament, and then expands to extend to those Gentiles and those Jews who have understood him in the New Testament way.

Seems rather 'exclusive/conditional', as opposed to Jesus' unconditional Love, completely 'inclusive/unconditional', transcendent!
'God's People', unless ALL inclusive, seem a vain and insane minded notion.
I said 'insane' because schizophrenia is the fragmentation of that which is One; ie; 'God's people vs people who are NOT 'God's people'.
Us vs Them!
That's not Love! *__-

tat tvam asi (en.wikipedia.org...)



posted on Feb, 26 2017 @ 03:40 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
Infested with Christian beliefs, what like Jesus is God, He wants us to love Him and each other above all...all those infested Xian beliefs

Jesus is as much God as you and I Are; "As I Am, so can you be!"
One needs no 'beliefs' for Jesus to recognize you in a lineup!
Jesus said it was by your living unconditionally Loving lives, can his followers be recognized.
There are no 'beliefs' involved in unconditional Love.
'Beliefs', any 'beliefs', are a pathologically symptomatic infection of 'thought/ego'.
Malware.
Completely 'conditional', vain, dualistic...
But that is just an 'appearance' of 'thought/ego', nothing more, 'make-believe'.
To actually 'believe' 'make-believe', is insanity.
'Beliefs' have well researched symptoms, leading, ultimately, to decreased cognitive function and insanity.


Why? Did you have some other beliefs for us to believe?

Dog forbid!
I would see you healthy!
(If the Universe ever drops in for tea, that is what I'd tell it, were I a vain ignorant meddling fool!)
Unconditional Love is healing, and free of 'beliefs'.


Did you want Xians to stone people, judge people, go to war

According to Jesus, no one who engages in any of said activities could possibly be a Xtian!
No 'law' necessary for the Xtian.
Laws are for those with no ethics!


It's funny, complaining if Christians follow the laws of the OT and now complaining that we don't do it the way you want us to

Whoa there, Skipper!
To bring hypocrisy and vanity into the light is always painful.
Some are even Grateful, eventually.
'Beliefs' are not 'Faith'. They are opposites.
It has nothing to do with my 'wants', had I any, but has everything to do with what Jesus taught and demonstrated.
Very simple stuff, no 'beliefs' required.


You know what nameless one, it doesn't have to be discarded, you can become a Jew if you like

I'm not discarding anything.
If you are a Jew, the bible is quite relevant, if you are a 'believing' (self-proclaimed) Xtian, you are needing to constantly feed the 'belief infection' (one of the symptoms).
Unconditional Love/Enlightenment fulfills the whole of the 'law', automatically!


Try this,
Old Testament is the old covenant
The New Testament is the new covenant

Try this, climb down from that arrogance and, perhaps, evolve.
The 'old testament' is only such to a Xtian!
It is the bible!
The 'New Testament(s)' is the Xtian's own stand alone book, loosely based on the bible.



posted on Feb, 26 2017 @ 03:50 AM
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originally posted by: namelesss
Seems rather 'exclusive/conditional', as opposed to Jesus' unconditional Love, completely 'inclusive/unconditional', transcendent!

Whether you like it or not, the "conditional" and "exclusive" element is fundamental to the Bible.
It goes right back to the first and most basic commandment, "You shall have no other gods but me", which is necessarily excluding other gods.
You are quietly ignoring everything that Jesus says about the rejection and condemnation of those who refuse to listen to him. They will be "not allowed through the gate", "left outside the door", "thrown into outer darkness". He warns the more stubborn towns of Galilee that they will be brought down to Hades, that it will be less tolerable for them on the day of judgement than for the land of Sodom.
In short, they will be excluded.
The difference between those who belong to God and those who do not is built into Biblical theology.

I take it from your avatar that you are a devotee of a completely different religion, which rather weakens your claim to speak with authority on the nature of Christian teaching.
You are expressing a viewpoint which you find appealing; I am simply describing what the New Testament actually says.




edit on 26-2-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2017 @ 04:42 AM
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a reply to: namelesss

Diz is right nameless, your position based on your beliefs and understanding is pointless.
I am a christian, I believe Jesus is God, that His message to His followers, even the world was love each other

You infer He wasn't God, well Jesus calmed the sea, healed the sick, cast out demons, raised the dead and, how about we throw in forgave sin.
I can't do any of that

and "dog forbid", you trying to cause a little antagonism, start a fight, belittle me, well done you
Not interested in your preaching, I don't do it at you, please don't do the Jehova Witness thing to me

I



posted on Feb, 26 2017 @ 05:54 AM
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Before people get too caught up in the WWF wrestling version of debate about the identity of God (or his existence, or the topic of faith/belief, which are synonyms meaning you can use them interchangeably rather than as if they mean 2 different things as I've seen nameless do in the past)...

Is Jesus God?

Many people view the Trinity as “the central doctrine of the Christian religion.” According to this teaching, the Father, Son, and holy spirit are three persons in one God. Cardinal John O’Connor stated about the Trinity: “We know that it is a very profound mystery, which we don’t begin to understand.” Why is the Trinity so difficult to understand?

The Illustrated Bible Dictionary gives one reason. Speaking of the Trinity, this publication admits: “It is not a biblical doctrine in the sense that any formulation of it can be found in the Bible.” Because the Trinity is “not a biblical doctrine,” Trinitarians have been desperately looking for Bible texts—even twisting them—to find support for their teaching.

Conveniently Ignoring that Jesus made a clear distinction between him and his Father (among other clear teachings from the bible that do not conform to their theological doctrines or are as inconvenient to them as some of the facts/truths/certainties that are inconvenient to evolutionary philosophers and philosophical naturalists when they are promoting and teaching their doctrines/teachings).

Does the identity of God have to be “a very profound mystery”? It did not seem so to Jesus. In his prayer to his Father, Jesus made a clear distinction between him and his Father when he said: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:3) If we believe Jesus and understand the plain teaching of the Bible, we will respect him as the divine Son of God that he is. We will also worship Jehovah as “the only true God.”

Parts of Ephesians 1:3+Psalms 83:18 (KJV or AV):

Blessed be the God...of our Lord Jesus Christ...
...whose name alone is Jehovah...


Jehovah is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ. The bible (including the KJV or AV) is very clear on that. Some of those who prefer vagueness and the practice of obscuring simple matters so they can teach mysteries (synonyms: contradictions/paradoxes/nonsense/lies) seem to have little issue in admitting that their doctrine of the Trinity is "not a biblical doctrine". "not a biblical doctrine" really should be the end of the debate but not for most Trinitarians (including the ones involved with the Illustrated Bible Dictionary) apparently who perhaps like to bring up another "sense", as in eisegesis posing as exegesis...
Christians Worship With Spirit and Truth

JEHOVAH’S only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ, left no doubt about worship that pleases his heavenly Father. While giving a heartwarming witness to a Samaritan woman at a well near the city of Sychar, Jesus said: “You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation originates with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 4:22-24)
...
The Samaritans had false religious views. They accepted as inspired only the first five books of the Holy Scriptures—and these just in their own recension, called the Samaritan Pentateuch. Whereas the Samaritans did not really know God, the Jews had been entrusted with Scriptural knowledge. (Romans 3:1, 2) It was possible for faithful Jews and others to enjoy Jehovah’s favor. But what would this require of them?To please Jehovah, what did Jews, Samaritans, and others of the past have to do? They had to worship him “with spirit and truth.” So must we. Although service to God must be spirited, or zealous, and motivated by a heart filled with love and faith, worshiping God with spirit especially requires that we have his holy spirit resting upon us and allow ourselves to be guided by it. Through study and application of God’s Word, our spirit, or mental disposition, must be attuned to his. (1 Corinthians 2:8-12) For our worship to be acceptable to Jehovah, it must also be rendered to him with truth. It must conform to what God’s Word, the Bible, reveals about him and his purposes.

Truth Can Be Found

4. How do some view truth?

4 Certain students of philosophy have developed the view that ultimate truth is not within the reach of mankind. In fact, Swedish author Alf Ahlberg wrote: “Many philosophical questions are of such a nature that it is not possible to give a definite answer to them.” Although some say that there is only relative truth, is that really so? Not according to Jesus Christ.

5. Why did Jesus come into the world?
...

edit on 26-2-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2017 @ 06:08 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

And that's a valid opinion and you are more than welcome to it, though I have a different opinion to yours
Your opinion has been around for millennia, is even Jewish but that is irrelevant to the topic at hand
Nameless seems to be into the new age old age teachings. I am unaware of yours.
I am a christian, there is abundant evidence to suggest Jesus is a part of the Trinity through out the old and new testament
We disagree, I accept that.



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