Churches increasingly feel need to offer sanctuary to undocumented migrants

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I think the problem is (as one person in this thread states), they do not see them as people, they see them as filth...cats.

Tis sad

Can't answer the questions so you resort to ad-homs. Please quote where my post left the impression they are less than human.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: veracity

I think the problem is (as one person in this thread states), they do not see them as people, they see them as filth...cats.

Tis sad

You're right - and it would be bad if it was only a few people. But - it's a whole electoral college worth

Nothing for it but to fight the good fight veracity

Human rights - nothing less is acceptable

There is no human right to live in the USA.

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

So compassion can't be helping people in their home country, it means you have to have no border and let everyone in and care for them here?

That's pretty silly.

Its helping people who are in need of it at the moment. Of course helping in their own home country would be ideal, but what if bombs are being dropped on their home country, what if they have no freedom of religion in their home country, what if they get raped in their home country.

What you are implying is ideal and only happens in a perfect world, we can dream. But compassion is very important.

So everyone from certain countries HAS to be allowed into the US?
If you don't like where you came from, change it.

Where did I say don't help them in the moment? Help them every step of the way as they get deported and keep helping them once they get back home.

Help =/= Opening my door and letting people live in my house. It's a false argument.
Compassion =/= Opening my door and letting people live in my house. It's a false argument.

Yes, we should welcome people from all over the country into the US. It is diversity that makes us America. Of course take the proper registering procedures, but YES, welcome EVERYONE! Treat everyone with kindness and compassion.

So if 100 million people with no money and no skills wants to come here we should let them all in? 200 million? How many do we let in? Are they paying the fees for legal immigration, or are the tax payers covering the THOUSANDS it costs per person to do checks on each person and register them?

To answer your question, as I already said, proper registrations should be done for tax reasons.

And if it is so aweful to you and becomes a 3rd world country in your eyes and all of these people are so beneath you and like cats? Then you can just move yourself

See, everyone gets a choice.

So you refuse to answer my questions because the tough questions you have no answer to.

which question, I have answered every question, if not in that post, then another. I dont like repeating myself, its one of my pet peeves.

So if 100 million people with no money and no skills wants to come here we should let them all in? 200 million? How many do we let in? Are they paying the fees for legal immigration, or are the tax payers covering the THOUSANDS it costs per person to do checks on each person and register them?

Sorry, you did not answer who is paying for the background check and registration. You did not answer how many coming is acceptable.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Awesome logical fallacy and lie. An ad-hom too.

You don't understand what either of those things mean

It's not my fault you don't understand how language works

Refugees - plain and simple

I don't have to elicit a thing from you - I need for you to understand this

This is about treating people right - and it's already emotional

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

There is no human right to live in the USA.

No - but once they are here they have rights. What we're looking at now is an abusive situation - which we obviously don't all agree on

This thread is about churches resisting and offering sanctuary. Churches have done this throughout history - in many different parts of the world, in many different kinds of circumstances

As have individual citizens, families, businesses

Sorry you don't like it. Some of us don't care that you don't

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Sorry, I do.

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis

You - going by the letter of the law - only see them as lawbreakers

Rather than debate my points you attacked me. Ad-hom.

Refugees - plain and simple

Economic migrants are not refugees because they get to America and seek refuge hahaha. I still can't believe you said that.

Refugees

Under United States law, a refugee is someone who:

Is located outside of the United States
Is of special humanitarian concern to the United States
Demonstrates that they were persecuted or fear persecution due to race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in a particular social group
Is not firmly resettled in another country
Is admissible to the United States

A refugee does not include anyone who ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in the persecution of any person on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

For the legal definition of refugee, see section 101(a)(42) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

There is no human right to live in the USA.

No - but once they are here they have rights.

And the right to stay in the USA is not one of those rights. Now show me where I ever said they had no rights at all. I will wait, quote me.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Yes, we should accept all of them, I dont see why our registry system should not be paid by US tax dollars in order to keep everyone compliant.

If you want to look at it this way...more immigrants...more people paying taxes and participating to make america prosperous.

As far as how many? EVERYONE and anyone who wants to come to america (which right now is not much bc we look like a bunch of racist bigots to the rest of the world)

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

And the right to stay in the USA is not one of those rights. Now show me where I ever said they had no rights at all. I will wait, quote me.

I don't actually care if you did or didn't

From your first reply to me:

Except God has told them to follow the law. It's not an and/or situation. Follow the law, send them back, and offer them support back home.

Follow the law? Which law? What does God tell Trump - and his administration? They're making the laws. Is Trump divine? Does he have God's ear? Is anything Trump does protected by God?

Which God?

Pope Francis: Protecting the world's migrants and refugees is a moral imperative

Pope Francis has again emphasized the urgent need for “a coordinated and effective response” by the political community, civil society and the church to the challenges arising from the massive wave of migration across the world that has created the greatest humanitarian crisis of the 21st century.

You're funny OccamsRazor04 - claiming that what you know is all there is

By the way - I'm a humanist. I have an affinity with certain kinds of people - and those people are often religious. One thing I know for sure is that you don't speak for me - or for them

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Hahahahahaha....

Do you ever stay at hotels? What about dining out? Who cuts your yard? You like those flowers and landscaping in front of your building? Along the streets? What about tamales, you like those?

If you have children, who provides their care while you are work?

Where do you live?
DO YOU SPEAK SPANISH?

Are you saying LEGAL Mexicans can't make tamales?
are you saying LEGAL Mexicans can't do any of these jobs .. only illegals?
No illegals provide any service for me. None. Good try though.

lol!! None that you know of.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
I don't actually care if you did or didn't

So you don't care if I actually said it, you will just say I did. Sounds right.

Follow the law? Which law? What does God tell Trump - and his administration? They're making the laws. Is Trump divine? Does he have God's ear? Is anything Trump does protected by God?

Which God?

Pope Francis: Protecting the world's migrants and refugees is a moral imperative

What does this have to do with Trump when these people broke the law and came here illegally BEFORE trump was President. These are not Trump's laws. Obama bragged about how many illegals he deported, but Trump is evil when he does it? Why are we discussing Trump? If Pope Francis believes that I fully expect him to use the Catholic Church's riches to support them. Open up Vatican City to them. Think he will?

By the way - I'm a humanist. I have an affinity with certain kinds of people - and those people are often religious. One thing I know for sure is that you don't speak for me - or for them

Why would you want anyone to speak for you?

Quite a long post to say literally nothing other than admit you lied when you claimed I said something I did not say, and then admit you don't care if you lied.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Hahahahahaha....

Do you ever stay at hotels? What about dining out? Who cuts your yard? You like those flowers and landscaping in front of your building? Along the streets? What about tamales, you like those?

If you have children, who provides their care while you are work?

Where do you live?
DO YOU SPEAK SPANISH?

Are you saying LEGAL Mexicans can't make tamales?
are you saying LEGAL Mexicans can't do any of these jobs .. only illegals?
No illegals provide any service for me. None. Good try though.

lol!! None that you know of.

No, zero, none. I do my own housekeeping. I do my own yard work. I do my own mowing.

Again, are you saying only illegals can do these jobs and a legal Mexican can't make a tamale?

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Yes, we should accept all of them, I dont see why our registry system should not be paid by US tax dollars in order to keep everyone compliant.

That's BILLIONS of dollars.

If you want to look at it this way...more immigrants...more people paying taxes and participating to make america prosperous.

With what jobs, currently 41% of actual Americans have no job. So you think 200 million unskilled uneducated workers are going to come in and there will be jobs for everyone?

You are seriously clueless with the economy. America would have a Great Depression and the rest of the world would go with it. The entire world's economy would be destroyed.

As far as how many? EVERYONE and anyone who wants to come to america (which right now is not much bc we look like a bunch of racist bigots to the rest of the world)

That must be why they keep coming.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Who is to say a mexican will come over to America and open 15 mexican restaurants and create thousands of jobs? (which is what someone i personally know did in my town)

See you are the clueless one.

It is draining to argue with stupidity

a reply to: veracity

Not to mention all of the extra tacos!!!!!!!

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

So you don't buy anything made in a factory where you would not know who had a hand in making what you are using? I doubt it.

On topic: Both sides are wrong to a point.

Latin america is not a war zone and these immigrants are not refugees.

Millions of people do stay in their countries and work at making them better places.

Some people buy into the american dream more than others and they won't be held back. They just have to go and try their luck.

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Who is to say a mexican will come over to America and open 15 mexican restaurants and create thousands of jobs? (which is what someone i personally know did in my town)

See you are the clueless one.

It is draining to argue with stupidity

I really have no idea what this is in response to. Good for him, I love Mexican food, I eat it all the time. Did you have a point?

Are you saying we will have 200 million people come here and each create thousands of jobs so the net result will be billions of new jobs? That logic ....

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

So you don't buy anything made in a factory where you would not know who had a hand in making what you are using? I doubt it.

On topic: Both sides are wrong to a point.

Latin america is not a war zone and these immigrants are not refugees.

Millions of people do stay in their countries and work at making them better places.

Some people buy into the american dream more than others and they won't be held back. They just have to go and try their luck.

Apples and oranges. The person was listing services you personally pay for. If an illegal is taking a factory job then you are making my case for me as to why they need to be deported, we have 41% of Americans out of work.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What does this have to do with Trump...

You must be joking

Obama did deport many, many people. True enough:

Since President Obama has been in office, over two and a half million people have been deported from the United States. That’s more than under George W. Bush in eight years and more than double Bill Clinton’s number. It’s more than any President, ever. Why has he been doing this? Because President Obama wanted to prove to Congress that he wasn’t “soft on immigration,” in the hopes that they would pass comprehensive immigration reform. So far, that plan hasn’t worked out too well.

And Obama’s election did not fully realize the hopes that so many had. My organization, the ACLU, fought back against many of the policies of the Obama administration, including his record level of deportations and his unaccountable use of drones. But in many important ways, Obama’s election represented substantial, significant progress toward the realization of Martin Luther King’s dream.

I don't have idols OccamsRazor04 - do you? People are imperfect - and those people we elect are human. They let us down. Some sooner than others. You think this isn't about Trump?

The question you should be asking yourself now is - is this manufactured fear and panic, or is this the real thing? Why exactly is this a story? Why are churches - and entire cities - making a point of offering sanctuary? What's changed? Do you honestly believe that this is an over reaction?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Apples and oranges. The person was listing services you personally pay for.

You don't personally pay for consumer stuff that you buy?

If an illegal is taking a factory job then you are making my case for me as to why they need to be deported, we have 41% of Americans out of work.

That is why I said that they are trying their luck.