Trangender Bathroom and Locker Room Useage at Public Schools - New Federal Guidelines.

originally posted by: verschickter
This thread is so full of hypocrisy, elitism and whatnot. We have (pro/)transgender people that cry for acceptance, while in the same sentence (!) he/she calls non-binary types "mid-spectrum"? While on the avatar, you read "no h8"?

Let that sit for a moment. Bravo.

The sophistication of my arguments seem to have been missed so I'll back it down a little and hope for better understanding?

Firstly, I was trans as a child and have been through the entire process of "changing sex" which already gets me branded as an elitist by the majority of the "transgender community" simply for existing. I am female bodied, have never lived as or been a man and definitely go by she, her, hers pronouns. I am also 62 years old and have seen trans awareness and understanding go from less than nothing to what it is today but more as an outside observer because I've never been part of the "transgender community". I never even met a transgender person until 1977 when I was 22 years old and in my lifetime, have only ever actually met more than five but with the Internet and all, I've kept my eye closely on all the medical and scientific research as well as from a sociological interest, the rise of and politics of the "transgender movement".

I have nothing against non-binary, genderfluid, genderqueer nor the 86 flavors of Tumblr genders and wish them the best in life in all aspects. Everyone has the right to express themselves however they want and I'm all for that.

Where I do have a problem with them is in their claiming that being gender non-conforming/variant makes them transgender or maybe it's just the umbrella term transgender itself which seems to have been co-opted by young, mostly feminist SJW's whinging about gender neutral pronouns and demanding acceptance in the most vocal of ways.

Why this bothers me is because it muddies the waters of public perception of those genuinely struggling with gender dysphoria... the "real" transgender people that want to transition from one gender to the other and fit into society and get on with life.

Don't mistake my "bother" with this as being hate, however, I feel that the confusion and backlash caused by trans-trenders and gender benders claiming to be trans is actually detrimental to the children and adults that actually are transgender and dealing with serious life, social and health problems. Yes, there is some overlap and commonalities of certain objectives but I don't think the general public is able to discern the intricacies and nuance of the situation.

As far as the "mid-spectrum" comment, here's my feeling on that. It was not meant as or intended to be derogatory. "Gender" is a spectrum from masculine to feminine. These roles, attributes, affectations and expectations are largely made up by societal perceptions and conventions and all persons, whether they be male or female contain elements or traits of both masculinity or femininity. Masculine females and feminine males exist just by their nature and I have known and am friends with both but where my issue comes in is with those that deliberately manipulate the social construct aspects of gender through their calculated expressions to gain oppression/victim points and repressed minority status to gain attention, social currency and relevancy, to have a "cause" or just to be cool, hip and trendy... and then claim to be transgender which is where I draw the line for the above stated reasons. I have nothing against "mid-spectrum" males and females that are just that way but those that wear their gender non-conformance as a costume or fashion statement to garner attention do get under my skin when they claim to be trans or not male or female when they are clearly one or the other. Genuinely being transgender has nothing to do with identity politics but for many not more intimately familiar with what is going on, that is the fallacious perception.

Again, I don't expect most people to understand this because it has turned into a flustercluck and a political and social issue between progressives and conservatives when at the core of the matter, the health and well-being of people that actually are transgender with gender dysphoria either get lumped in with the crazy whinging SJW's or their genuine health and medical problems get ignored completely. With some exceptions, neither case does them much good.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: continuousThunder

You can claim that, but real world statistics prove otherwise. Even for those who are completely accepted, the rates are still much higher.

um excuse me nooo
you make your claims but the real world, my life experiences and my sprawling network of trans friends prove otherwise.
just saying "nah, statistics" ain't gonna cut it.
i ask again, what grants you the authority to speak over me about my own life?

a reply to: Freija

Oh come on "the sophistication..."...really? That route?

Stopped reading there, I´m not interested in your life story. I just pointed out the obvious truth, that both sides are horrible. You´re even more horrible, because you actually believe your better. Look in the mirror.

Speaking down to me like this, while all I did was telling the truth... Can´t refute that. Like I said, this thread is so full of hypocrisy, elitism and whatnot.

a reply to: verschickter
Wow! Talk about taking things personally with a closed mind. Many don't understand my position on things including many transgender people who think I'm a monster for not being politically correct, towing the company line or spewing the worn out rhetoric of the "transgender movement" where everyone and everything is supposed to be holding hands in solidarity and singing kumbaya. People usually try to belittle me for drinking the Kool-Aid and group think but when I do speak out with my own unique opinions, I get the same thing.

I tried. If you don't want to understand some of the different points of view other than what you think you know from the MSM and other media then that's fine.

Stopped reading there, I´m not interested in your life story.

Obviously you read further than indicated. I included my "life story" not to indicate that I am better but rather to indicate that I am at least qualified and that I do have a dog in this fight with hopes that my comments would be given consideration and you would address them rather than resorting to personal attacks.

I'm sorry if you felt "spoken down to" but I didn't write all that for just you. After all, you called me out specifically, obviously didn't understand what I had previously said so I took the time to elaborate on my position which you've chosen to ignore.

Whatever dude.

a reply to: Freija

Just hypothetically speaking.

If you become a woman, and I stay a man ...

Would I still be lgbt or is that heterosexual?

Just wondering about constructs.

I still don't understand this younger generation.

I was raised as a nudist and still go to nude hots springs and nude beaches.

Us old hippies had no problems with mixed nudity.

They should go to some countries in europe or china where the just have one restroom for all in schools and swimming classes are nude and mixed sex.

a reply to: Freija
It´s not about political correctness, SJW or any of those other entaglements that are used to distract. I did not take it personal. But you seem (...monster...).

Yes I called you out on that, but not specifically, because if you read further down and had kept taps on the other posts here, you´d notice that it was not about you, lonely.

When I say reading, then I mean reading, not overflying. I make that distinction!

If you don't want to understand some of the different points of view other than what you think you know from the MSM and other media then that's fine.

And again you are aproaching this/me with your assumptions. That´s exactly my point. Don´t you see it? You are assuming, because of the nature of my post that was adressing the behavior that I must be some close minded guy, only reading MSN. You went right into berserk mode with that, completely ignoring the essence of my post.

That type of reaction is exactly why I made that post and it proofs my point furthermore. Hypocrisy, elitism, assumptions. You´re not one bit better than the other "side". Just no one dares to say this.

....

When I was young I grew up with a girl that was always hanging around with us boys, did "typical" boy stuff. Until puberty. At one time she said she want´s a penis, although I don´t think it was ment serious in her case. There are indications that some cases are due to a chemical imbalance (those who trigger now miss the rest) that corrects when puberty starts. I wrote some, not all. Because I believe in some sort of re incarnation I don´t refute that a more female soul can end up in a male body or vice verse and feel uncomfortable.

That much about your assumptions.... What I have a problem with, is that holier than thou type of thinking that is CLEARLY outstanding on that lgbt "side" of the argument.

a reply to: destination now
How much % in children?

That answer should be easy. Around the same %, probably a bit less than the adult % if it´s not a temporary episode. Less than 1%, why does it matter?

Also, I´m of the opinion parents should not push and wait until the childrens can actually take up a little response for their self. Allowing a underage child to go through medical procedures that can hardly be reversed and contemplated pre operation by the child is just wrong.

a reply to: destination now

It is estimated that there are 100,000 to 150,000 transgender youth in the U.S. out of somewhere around a total of 1.4 million.

More than three-quarters (77%) of those who were out or perceived as transgender at some point between Kindergarten and Grade 12 (K–12) experienced some form of mistreatment, such as being verbally harassed, prohibited from dressing according to their gender identity, disciplined more harshly, or physically or sexually assaulted because people thought they were transgender.



80% of transgender youth in unsupportive homes seriously consider suicide. 50% will have attempted or completed suicide by the age of 20. The rates for transgender youth in supporting and affirming environments goes down to around 4% which is still slightly higher than normal but represents a very major reduction.

Mental Health of Transgender Children Who Are Supported in Their Identities

6 Facts About Affirming Therapy for Trans And Gender Non-Conforming Youth

Allowing Transgender Youth To Transition Improves Their Mental Health, Study Finds

Being transgender has nothing to do with hormone imbalance

Transgender Study Rules Out Hormones As Factor

The End of the Desistance Myth

Hormone treatment to halt puberty in transgender adolescents is safe and effective

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: continuousThunder

You can claim that, but real world statistics prove otherwise. Even for those who are completely accepted, the rates are still much higher.

Just as you can claim this garbage, I'd like you to back up your claim with hard data...oh wait you can't because you can't ask a dead person why they killed themself.

All you have is speculation, a closed mind and an icy heart. I get it you don't like nor care for Trans folk and that's your perogative . Yet you pretend you do with your faux compassion and false concern. Really you just want to presume to tell me and others like me what we are feeling when in fact you have no idea nor legitimate desire to understand.

People like you make me sick with your pretentious sense of self perceived knowledge and compassion. Bottom line is you know nothing about our plight as you've never walked in our shoes. So stop pretending to in an attempt to validate your false "concern" for us. With a friend like you who needs enemies. If you offered me your hand in support i would smack it away and spit at your feet.

That's an awful lot of vitriol, from someone trying to play the victim.

No, the facts are that the suicide rates are still higher.

Regret, unhappiness and suicides, even after surgery--studies says many remain traumatized

You assume that someone has to agree with you in order to have concern over your issues. By that logic, family members of addicts should just find a way to deal with the usage, and not try and help them overcome the addiction.

How someone feels isn't a valid indicator of facts.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: continuousThunder

You can claim that, but real world statistics prove otherwise. Even for those who are completely accepted, the rates are still much higher.

Just as you can claim this garbage, I'd like you to back up your claim with hard data...oh wait you can't because you can't ask a dead person why they killed themself.

All you have is speculation, a closed mind and an icy heart. I get it you don't like nor care for Trans folk and that's your perogative . Yet you pretend you do with your faux compassion and false concern. Really you just want to presume to tell me and others like me what we are feeling when in fact you have no idea nor legitimate desire to understand.

People like you make me sick with your pretentious sense of self perceived knowledge and compassion. Bottom line is you know nothing about our plight as you've never walked in our shoes. So stop pretending to in an attempt to validate your false "concern" for us. With a friend like you who needs enemies. If you offered me your hand in support i would smack it away and spit at your feet.

That's an awful lot of vitriol, from someone trying to play the victim.

No, the facts are that the suicide rates are still higher.

Regret, unhappiness and suicides, even after surgery--studies says many remain traumatized

You assume that someone has to agree with you in order to have concern over your issues. By that logic, family members of addicts should just find a way to deal with the usage, and not try and help them overcome the addiction.

How someone feels isn't a valid indicator of facts.

Just like believing that you are right does not necessarily make you right. Bottom line is that you are not Transgender so those of us that are would prefer if you kept your arrogant opinions on our thoughts, feelings and lives to yourself. You have absolutely no credentials nor personal experience to validate your claims. I'm willing to bet that I personally know many more Transgender individuals than you thus having a better grasp on what it's like to be Trans and actual real life experience with the matter. So with all due respect just shut up and stop spouting your deluded opinions of what it's like to be us. Oh and your G** damned right I have vitriol towards you and people like you that spread and perpetuate complete bollux in regards to Trans lives because you neither like nor understand us. Just shut up and stop pretending to know anything about us.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: continuousThunder

You can claim that, but real world statistics prove otherwise. Even for those who are completely accepted, the rates are still much higher.

Just as you can claim this garbage, I'd like you to back up your claim with hard data...oh wait you can't because you can't ask a dead person why they killed themself.

All you have is speculation, a closed mind and an icy heart. I get it you don't like nor care for Trans folk and that's your perogative . Yet you pretend you do with your faux compassion and false concern. Really you just want to presume to tell me and others like me what we are feeling when in fact you have no idea nor legitimate desire to understand.

People like you make me sick with your pretentious sense of self perceived knowledge and compassion. Bottom line is you know nothing about our plight as you've never walked in our shoes. So stop pretending to in an attempt to validate your false "concern" for us. With a friend like you who needs enemies. If you offered me your hand in support i would smack it away and spit at your feet.

That's an awful lot of vitriol, from someone trying to play the victim.

No, the facts are that the suicide rates are still higher.

Regret, unhappiness and suicides, even after surgery--studies says many remain traumatized

You assume that someone has to agree with you in order to have concern over your issues. By that logic, family members of addicts should just find a way to deal with the usage, and not try and help them overcome the addiction.

How someone feels isn't a valid indicator of facts.

You're being fooled by forced perspective.

Let's say you have no rash on your body but your neighbor does. A cream gets developed that is made from ingredients you find to be blasphemous to your fixed understanding of the world. This cream reduces your neighbor's rash by 90%.

A study comes out and a group sympathetic to your own narrative interprets the data as "rash sufferers who take that cream have twice the amount of rash as people who don't suffer from rashes".

Even though the cream was super effective, all you see is what you want to see.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: carewemust

Just shut up and go into the bathroom that matches what you look like. .

Interesting choice of words. "Matches what you look like".

Imagine having some hot chick come into your gender bathroom and dropping a stink bomb in dire need of a mercy flush.

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: continuousThunder

You can claim that, but real world statistics prove otherwise. Even for those who are completely accepted, the rates are still much higher.

Just as you can claim this garbage, I'd like you to back up your claim with hard data...oh wait you can't because you can't ask a dead person why they killed themself.

All you have is speculation, a closed mind and an icy heart. I get it you don't like nor care for Trans folk and that's your perogative . Yet you pretend you do with your faux compassion and false concern. Really you just want to presume to tell me and others like me what we are feeling when in fact you have no idea nor legitimate desire to understand.

People like you make me sick with your pretentious sense of self perceived knowledge and compassion. Bottom line is you know nothing about our plight as you've never walked in our shoes. So stop pretending to in an attempt to validate your false "concern" for us. With a friend like you who needs enemies. If you offered me your hand in support i would smack it away and spit at your feet.

That's an awful lot of vitriol, from someone trying to play the victim.

No, the facts are that the suicide rates are still higher.

Regret, unhappiness and suicides, even after surgery--studies says many remain traumatized

You assume that someone has to agree with you in order to have concern over your issues. By that logic, family members of addicts should just find a way to deal with the usage, and not try and help them overcome the addiction.

How someone feels isn't a valid indicator of facts.

Just like believing that you are right does not necessarily make you right. Bottom line is that you are not Transgender so those of us that are would prefer if you kept your arrogant opinions on our thoughts, feelings and lives to yourself. You have absolutely no credentials nor personal experience to validate your claims. I'm willing to bet that I personally know many more Transgender individuals than you thus having a better grasp on what it's like to be Trans and actual real life experience with the matter. So with all due respect just shut up and stop spouting your deluded opinions of what it's like to be us. Oh and your G** damned right I have vitriol towards you and people like you that spread and perpetuate complete bollux in regards to Trans lives because you neither like nor understand us. Just shut up and stop pretending to know anything about us.

Get over it. I have just as much right to state my opinions on the topic as you do. That's the bottom line. I don't need your agreement or approval to have an opinion, or to share it. Your assumption that I do is the real display of arrogance here.

If you can't handle disagreement, then why are you posting in a discussion forum? Do you actually expect that all who post will agree with you?? In the real world, we know that doesn't happen. Don't like my comments? Don't read them. I don't care. Also, I didn't talk about "what it's like" to be you. I stated some facts, and some of my opinion. Agree or disagree, your option, but you don't get to tell me I can't state my own opinion. As for knowing anything about you; well, I know you don't believe in rights. You want to silence all who disagree with you. That's some "tolerance". Tsk, tsk.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
That's an awful lot of vitriol, from someone trying to play the victim.

No, the facts are that the suicide rates are still higher.

Regret, unhappiness and suicides, even after surgery--studies says many remain traumatized

You assume that someone has to agree with you in order to have concern over your issues. By that logic, family members of addicts should just find a way to deal with the usage, and not try and help them overcome the addiction.

How someone feels isn't a valid indicator of facts.

You're being fooled by forced perspective.

Let's say you have no rash on your body but your neighbor does. A cream gets developed that is made from ingredients you find to be blasphemous to your fixed understanding of the world. This cream reduces your neighbor's rash by 90%.

A study comes out and a group sympathetic to your own narrative interprets the data as "rash sufferers who take that cream have twice the amount of rash as people who don't suffer from rashes".

Even though the cream was super effective, all you see is what you want to see.

No one is talking about rashes or creams here. We are talking about surgery to alter one's genitals. We are talking about people being suicidal, even after, and perhaps as a result of, such surgeries.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I have just as much right to state my opinions on the topic as you do. That's the bottom line.

Just as I have the same right to state my opinion and dislike you for yours.

I don't need your agreement or approval to have an opinion,

Never said you did but I'm still going to tell you to shut up if I think what is coming out of your mouth/fingers is garbage.

but you don't get to tell me I can't state my own opinion

Actually I can and there is nothing you can do to stop me just like I can not make you stop by telling you to.

I know you don't believe in rights. You want to silence all who disagree with you.

Not true at all but I do wish that those with hate fueled and idiotic opinions would cease and desist with sharing them. Just go sit quietly in the corner and hate me in your head if you must but please refrain from regurgitating your deluded fallacies out loud.

If you spoke to/about me with compassion and respect then you would get the same in return but you do not. You repeatedly spread hateful and ill formed nonsense about my demographic. There are several here that have shared more accurate info on the subject with you repeatedly and in numerous threads. Still though you harp on and on with your nonsensical opinion on the matter that is backed by not a shred of education or personal experience on the matter.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
That's an awful lot of vitriol, from someone trying to play the victim.

No, the facts are that the suicide rates are still higher.

Regret, unhappiness and suicides, even after surgery--studies says many remain traumatized

You assume that someone has to agree with you in order to have concern over your issues. By that logic, family members of addicts should just find a way to deal with the usage, and not try and help them overcome the addiction.

How someone feels isn't a valid indicator of facts.

You're being fooled by forced perspective.

Let's say you have no rash on your body but your neighbor does. A cream gets developed that is made from ingredients you find to be blasphemous to your fixed understanding of the world. This cream reduces your neighbor's rash by 90%.

A study comes out and a group sympathetic to your own narrative interprets the data as "rash sufferers who take that cream have twice the amount of rash as people who don't suffer from rashes".

Even though the cream was super effective, all you see is what you want to see.

No one is talking about rashes or creams here. We are talking about surgery to alter one's genitals. We are talking about people being suicidal, even after, and perhaps as a result of, such surgeries.

Ugh... It was an analogy to point out your flaw on logic. If group A has 100% unhappiness and group B has 10% unhappiness, a procedure that reduces group A's unhappiness to 20% will still be twice as high as group B.

What you see as twice as high is really an 80% reduction.

In other words, you are ignoring the statistics of "untreated" gender dyshoria sufferers.

a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

More of the same, I see. Some days, this place needs an ignore function. Ah, well, I can do that well enough on my own. Prepare to be ignored.