The Shed 14

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: PrairieShepherd

If my characters pause I just put 3 dots.

And THAT'S an ellipsis.


I am SO freaking guilty...but that's how I think and speak...with pauses...hehe...
(I'm dying inside, how humiliating. And I call myself a writer? I don't even know the lingo...omg!!)

Live and learn, eh?
(still dying inside)

a reply to: jacygirl

Sometimes I feel like a bull in a China Shop in here. Like a Troll amongst the pixies, lol.

Bahahaha! You always make me laugh and your wit is appreciated, believe me! There are times when I'm feeling so blah and then I read some of your posts and can't help but to cheer up and smile or laugh, sometimes, literally out loud!

I didn't know what ellipses meant either until I went back and re-read Sheps stuff. He does what I do. I always thought it worked well, but I'm not a published author. I dunno.

You touch people's lives all the time Jacy. You are nurturing. loving and kind. You always encourage others and give us all warm fuzzy feelings. You brighten my days.

originally posted by: jacygirl

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: PrairieShepherd

If my characters pause I just put 3 dots.

And THAT'S an ellipsis.

I am SO freaking guilty...but that's how I think and speak...with pauses...hehe...
(I'm dying inside, how humiliating. And I call myself a writer? I don't even know the lingo...omg!!)

Live and learn, eh?
(still dying inside)

Ahahahaha! Yeah I figured it out after going back to re-read in the story. I was going to go to google if I couldn't figure it out after that. I want my ellipses!!!! LOL

And to think I used to belong to a writer's site. Well, I still do, but it is almost dead. A shame really.

a reply to: Night Star
Ultimately, you have to be yourself.

If you are writing something for publication then it's up to the editor to deal with things like this, but no two editors are the same either. So, while some might cringe at more than a couple of ellipses per chapter, others won't be bothered at all. As I said to Shep, one of the acid tests is if their use is likely to be noticed by the reader. The same goes for semi-colons; I love them, but these days only a smallish number of readers (and writers) seem to even understand their function. So I had to cut back on them as well.

Language changes over time and especially with English, due to its huge number of users and their cultural diversity, these changes can occur so rapidly that we have conflicts between the "old school" and those who want to depart from it. I'm okay with this. The fact is, we don't write or speak the way Shakespeare did, or even Dickens or Emerson did!

For me, good writing will still show through even if it needs minor edits for punctuation: it's a truism that "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear", but it's equally true that a silk purse is still silk, even if it's a bit rough around the edges.

a reply to: JustMike

I have been doing some serious thinking on this ellipsis situation, and I think I blame phone texting and instant messaging.

Apart from the fact that people have abandoned grammar, punctuation, capital letters, etc...they also "dot dot dot" a lot. I know on one of my electronics (old, really old)...as soon as I try to start a new paragraph, it "sends"...so I use ellipsis to break up the wall of text somewhat.

Does that sound logical to you?
jacy

a reply to: PrairieShepherd
If my characters pause I just put 3 dots. LOL The seasoned writers must cringe when I write, but I have received compliments from so many people for so many years with my writing, so I don't know. I just want to tell a story.

Night, you know when I first started writing I told myself I'd never be any good because I didn't know what I wanted to say. What deeper meaning should I try to get across? What symbolism should I use? How should I illustrate my beliefs and principles?
When I gave up on that (cough) !@#$!@#$ and just started writing a story, it's funny but things I believe sort of naturally came out in the characters as they took on a life of their own.

a reply to: jacygirl
*Shep blushes and scuffs the floor with his boot a bit*
Aww shucks, thanks Lady J. (That's your new Shepherd title, BTW. Thought I should let you know.)

I think - and this is pure speculation - that it is in part because when I read, I hear voices in my head. That is to say, I hear the words I'm reading as audible in my head. My wife thinks I'm nuts, but it's exactly why she reads books about 40x as fast as I do - I have to move at the pace of the words in my head. She just inputs the words visually, not aurally.

Now the reason that's important is that in certain situations, my wife's technique is so much better - reading text books in college, or other assignments where the information is paramount. I was patently miserable at college reading assignments because it took HOURS every day to get through what other students could read in minutes. I've tried it her way, but I can't do it. I've never been able to change.

But, when I'm writing, I see Siere, or Gaalen, or Kaena. Even the Bearers, or Elder Poliara...I see them, I hear their voices, I see the places they walk and interact. In the current scene, I could draw you a picture of the room. So in the end, I'm just writing down what I see, and what pieces of the events seem to me to be most important to convey the images in my head to the reader.


a reply to: JustMike
*Shep shakes his head, smiling from ear to ear
Wonderful demonstration, Mike. THANK YOU.

a reply to: JustMike

Well said, Mike.

a reply to: jacygirl

I agree with this. I think the internet and the easy access to what amounts to edit-less self-publishing (think "blogisphere") is a BIG influence on the recent evolution of English in particular, so I definitely think you're on to something, jacy.

a reply to: jacygirl
Don't feel humiliated! Writing is a developmental process and you will never stop learning.

The best advice I can give to any aspiring writer is to avoid the classic mistakes, like using "it's" instead of "its". eg, "The bear crept back into its cave." Not "it's cave".

That is the sort of thing I look for when reading samples from new author's works on eg Amazon. They must know the basics, otherwise it's utter torture. Some do not not even seem to know the difference between "they're", "there" and "their" and for a writer, that is utterly unforgivable. These are fundamental matters and writers need to get them right.

The other is general apostrophe use, like understanding the difference between eg, "my sister's friend's brothers" (I have one sister who has a friend who has brothers), "my sisters' friend's brother" (my two [or more] sisters have a friend who has brothers) and "my sisters' friends' brothers (my sisters have friends who have brothers).

Example: one day I was out in town, showing some friends around. We passed by a small hotel and I said, "That's my neighbour's daughters' boyfriends' fathers' hotel. They're brothers and they own it."

That is, my neighbour had a couple of daughters and each had a boyfriend, and those boyfriends were cousins, because their fathers (who were brothers) owned that hotel.

In truth, this happened to me in Australia, but I've simplified it. I had a girlfriend at the time who had twin sisters, and they were going out with two guys who were cousins and whose fathers owned a factory:
"That's my girlfriend's twin sisters' boyfriends' fathers' factory. They're brothers and they own it." With the correct use of apostrophes, this is completely clear.

Why do we use apostrophes? Because it's faster, and people are basically lazy. We like to take the easy way out. If we wanted to make it totally clear, the above sentence would be:
"That's the factory of the fathers of the boyfriends of the twin sisters of my girlfriend. They're brothers and they own it."

You see? If we understand all the intricacies of grammar, we can express these things. But being great writer does not come down to having perfect grammar. The most important thing is to convey what you feel. Editors can fix it for you, and that's their job. But your individuality and creativity is what really matters!

a reply to: JustMike

You reminded me of the writer's site I used to frequent. I would see people post samples of their work and ask advice on how it could be improved or was it ok the way it was. One thing that always annoyed the hell out of me was a lot of writers did not like anything too descriptive or poetic. Hell, I love the imagery and eloquence of a post and I see others changing the author's original post to 'improve' it and it sucked. It didn't have the enchanting original impact.

Like your contest entry...it was sooo beautifully written. I think it comes down to personal tastes. Well, for me it does.

As for editors, I have know authors who would be terribly annoyed and frustrated because with the edits, a lot of good things were taken away. So yes, editors are all different. I have seen too many frustrated writers who are excellent writers.

a reply to: JustMike

That is the sort of thing I look for when reading samples from new author's works on eg Amazon. They must know the basics, otherwise it's utter torture. Some do not not even seem to know the difference between "they're", "there" and "their" and for a writer, that is utterly unforgivable. These are fundamental matters and writers need to get them right.

The other is general apostrophe use, like understanding the difference between eg, "my sister's friend's brothers" (I have one sister who has a friend who has brothers), "my sisters' friend's brother" (my two [or more] sisters have a friend who has brothers) and "my sisters' friends' brothers (my sisters have friends who have brothers).

Yes, these things can be maddening sometimes. LOL

a reply to: JustMike

Aww hunny...thank you.
I'm not really humiliated, I know how to write properly.
I choose to write the way I do because it's part of my character-persona which is a real part of me. (And it is how I speak often, in slang...or in song lyrics, or movie lines...or commercials...made-up words...lol)

*ellipsis attack*

I do appreciate your knowledge about getting published, I'm just playing.
Nobody knows this but in my head I'm a grammar Nazi. Bad grammar and lack of punctuation make me crazy, especially in social media.
I will write a perfectly punctuated paragraph, with capital letters and good grammar...only to receive a "K" as a response.
(I literally growl sometimes when that happens)

Basically I think I try to write light-hearted when I'm sometimes not feeling light-hearted, in the hopes that it will begin to become true. Often it works.
jacy

Gotta head out for a bit guys & gals!
Thanks for the conversation this afternoon- ttyl!

a reply to: PrairieShepherd

Bye Shep! See you when you come back here!

a reply to: PrairieShepherd

Have a good night Shep!

Thanks to you and Mike I learned about ellipsis.
It might be my new word now. See ya later.

a reply to: jacygirl
It sounds totally logical to me, as this modern tech sounds eminently blame-worthy! It's all part of dumbing things down so people don't have to "waste time". It's an appalling concept that writing down human thought in all its detail is a waste of time, but that's the trend.

I'm agin it.

When I write on a computer (meaning most of the time), I use Open Office and turn off just about any auto-correct stuff that can be turned off. I just want to write and as I use words at times that just don't seem to be in most of the dictionaries these things use, I'd rather not be bothered by squiggly red lines under my text. (Like in the par above, this program's software doesn't know the word "dumbing". How dumb is that? )

After all, if it's ultimately for publication, an editor is going to read it anyway. Hopefully reading from hard copy, because we pick up 20% more errors from the printed page than we do from a monitor. It's just the way our minds are wired from thousands of years of humans looking at physical things.

In other words, never allow a book or article you've written to be published until either you've got a printed proof and have gone through it line by line, or an editor has. Ok, preferably both.

However, this is all nuts an bolts. Writing is about magic: taking thoughts from our minds and putting them in a form that others can perceive. That is really quite extraordinary. So, the main thing is to write and write and write -- and damn the torpedoes! A mixed metaphor, but never mind. Get your thoughts, visions, ideas and dreams written down first, excess ellipses and all, and worry about the technical stuff later.

a reply to: JustMike

However, this is all nuts an bolts. Writing is about magic: taking thoughts from our minds and putting them in a form that others can perceive. That is really quite extraordinary. So, the main thing is to write and write and write -- and damn the torpedoes! A mixed metaphor, but never mind. Get your thoughts, visions, ideas and dreams written down first, excess ellipses and all, and worry about the technical stuff later.

Well said Mike, well said!

a reply to: JustMike

I agree with everything you've said.
Writing here is very different to writing a book with the intent of having it published.
We get away with stuff here that would make an editor cry, I'm sure.

I just recently found out that kids here are no longer learning cursive.
They can't write! They can't sign their own signatures!
I am appalled!

All this technology and we're turning into idiots. (well not US but you know what I mean)

A lone Dragon drifts along easily staying aloft by the warm updrafts coming up from the lands of Accasia below.

The sun is setting on another beautiful day in the lands of Fairie, Dragons, Woodland Elves and all Fantasy Creatures.

Smoke wafts from the campfires of Those needing some warmth, or just the light for feelings of safety. Some cook meals long awaited after a long days work.

Satisfied that all is well, The lone Dragon soars overhead of the meeting place of The Shed. Below He sees Friends left behind while He attended matters of home. Matters now at hand, He wants to return to the flock He sadly left weeks ago.

Unsure of what awaits, He decides to remain in the air...

a reply to: SyxPak

YAY!!!!!! Land and get some good food and pixies drinks! OMG, I am sooooo happy to see my dragon friend. It hasn't been the same without our mighty dragon! How are you feeling after your surgery? It is such a relief to see that you have returned!!!!!

It's been wonderful to see everybody here today, but I'm logging off to forage for food now.

Hopefully you will have some company tonight, Night Star.
I will be back in the morning to catch up.

Have a good night all!
jacy