NEWS: Child Killers Walk Free in Washington

Because of a recent Washington State Supreme Court decisions, David Crane, who was convicted of murdering 3 year old Steven Collins in 1986, is being set free decades early. At issue is felony second degree murder convictions based on assaults that led to death. The court is ruling retroactively from, 1976 to 2003 any assaults that were charged in this manner can only be charged with manslaughter. Prosecutors face the option of filing new charges of manslaughter, which carries a lesser penalty; finding another felony on which to base a felony murder charge; or trying to prove the killing was intentional,



This is appalling and I feel for the parents of these children who have died. This questionable decision is potentially going to let out 280 criminals from the prison system. Some counties are going to attempt to retry the murder cases and hope they can get a conviction, but alot of these crimes are well in the past.

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Well, I geuss I'll be more careful when I go outside now.
I cant believe their doing this, I mean these people are in prison for a reson.
Are justice system is to lax, murderers should be put to death after their found guilty.

[edit on 1/31/2005 by iori_komei]

What an arguement for the death penalty. If someone is can so easily take a childs, a babies life, can we beleive it will not repeat history at least once. or lead to some very broken homes.

How we protect our children in a society is a sign of how civilized we have become.
these people all "accidentally" killed thier children... and got stuck in a legal description along with people who did it premeditativley... with same punishment
but does that mean that we have to forgive them at some point after attonement?
if it didn't involve death., i lean towards giving a second chance after time served, but death offers no second chance... so perhaps these people need to serve in a program where they can do good works that can help society (life sentence).
I wouldn't say that a mother that suffers a nervous breakdown and shakes a screaming baby to death is'nt quite as dangerous as an armed robber, but these people are getting death sentances and life in prisons, where the guy who commits armed robbery gets 5 years... OH yeah... and the guy who smokes dope serves 10... yeah our legal system needs reworking and redifineing of our priorities... and maybe a few creative solutions...
accidents will happen to the best of us, and sometimes those accidents involve tragic consequences... perhaps there is a better way to punish people who have commited these tragedies without turning them into people who don't care about what they have done... (typical convicts are hardened against sensitivity towards their crimes) .
I am sure that many have seen the story of a drunk driver who accidentaly killed someone. His punishment is to go around the country and give seminars about the dangers of drunk driving... all the while being essentially under house arrest...
very creative solution...


[edit on 31-1-2005 by LazarusTheLong]

There is drunk driving(stupidity), and there is the killing of a child by rage. If in a crack/drunken/depressed rage, a person slams the head or shakes a 7 month old baby who dies 2 weeks later from internal bleeding, does this person deserve a chance to clean up. Sorry, but no.

The same goes for people who leave their children in cars by accident and they die. If you are a parent, you know that for the REST OF YOUR LIFE it is devoted to your child.

IF a person gets 5 years becasue of a pool gate not bieng up and the child dying, this is an accident. Shaking the hell out of an infant is not. All the meds in the world will not control the rage, becasue eventually they will go off the meds and crash and injure someone else.

Without a reading of each individual case this is a hard call. Could be justice finally done for many, could be a justice system gone awry.

Whatever the underlying events this is a clear case of judicial legislation. More Americana for the world to view. Judges at some point will either take over American life or be relegated back to enforcement of laws.

With a 5-4 vote on this one (that is what the court stats were) another case of judicial discord denies the expectations if not the rights of victim families.

While most American states do not allow for re-election of sitting judges most also have some type of referendum available. The populace of Washington State must decide whether to sit on their collective hands or march on the polls for recall of 5 judges.

My bet is that after a lot of press the populace will do other things with their leisure time. These 5 judges will remain.
.

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Yes... parents should need a license...
unfortunatly in this country, any 13 year old with a willing contributor can cause an unwanted birth... then the "child" having the child is too embaressed to have an abortion or to unstable to opt for adoption... then she thinks she doesn't need the influence of a father figure and can do it herself... (considering he is probably 13-17, not a bad choice)

I do know of a similiar situation, except in this case the girl was 16 instead... even had a willing father (17).... but have you ever heard of post partum depression? it is a common occurance in women after birth... causes lots of hormonal problems...
and the girl had it, but didn't know it because she was so young...
after a financial arguement one night, the boyfriend left her, and in a depressed fit, she shook her baby when it was screaming for attention...
only took a few seconds of bad decision with a bad situation, and a normally very nice girl became a murderer... very sad... she tried to kill herself several times after that...She has been in counseling for years, and volunteers with different groups to "try to attone". the police never fully investigated, and dropped the situation. Apparently situations like that happened hundreds of times a year, that are also "overlooked" due to obvious post partum depression. It seems that sometimes these cases end up in court when they are significantly gruesome... we don't hear about the vast majority...

now as to the specifics of this case... most of these criminals had nothing to do post partum depression... they need to do something to serve the public for the rest of their lives... (as i think most criminals need to do). If they walk free, then they learn nothing... and society pays...
should they be killed? I think there are many in line before them that won't hang...(unfortunatley)
should they be imprisoned forever? i don't want to pay their bills..
should society find a creative way to make these people pay for their sins...
I hope...

Come on people, read the quote.

It states the prosecutors did a mistake in the original trial. It states that they can prosecute these killers again, the right way, if they want to.

What is wrong with prosecuting people the way the law states they should be? The prosecutors f-ed up, now they have to make a choice if they want to do it the right way or not.

If anything, this story shows that mistakes are made in some trials. With a death penalty there is no going back, game over. No second chance to do it right, especially not for the dead guy.

Oh, btw. The quote says that two dozen people could be set free, FredT says 280. last time I checked a dozen wasn't 140...

Originally posted by gekko
Come on people, read the quote.

Oh, btw. The quote says that two dozen people could be set free, FredT says 280. last time I checked a dozen wasn't 140...

Come on gekko, read the article. It says 280 in the article that is linked.

I am seperated from someone who has suffered from post pardum and was Baker Acted as a result. I do know the circumstances, I have looked down the end of a knife, and i did endure abuse until I could legally get her out of my life. It will be a never ending battle for my child because she 'is the mom', so I guess it's personal. THe one who looks like BEtty Crocker in court in is a lunatic outside.

There are accidents, and there are acts of undeniable atrocity. Pray for the kids.

Gee, esdad 71...
sounds like you dated my ex girlfriend...
i ain't kiddin....
your situation sounds like the exact situation that my ex had with her husband a few years after i "got away" . Her situation was more bi-polar than anything else (she just wanted to wack the whole bunch)...

I prayed for him and the kids...

to bad they can't test for mental health of spouse before conception...
good thing you got away... I pray the court sees the truth....(you might also check with her ex boyfriends to see if they can testify to what you know of her mental health)

[edit on 31-1-2005 by LazarusTheLong]

OK redhat, the article obviously cant agree with itself. I guess Yahoo isn't exactly a broadsheet newspaper.


Anyhow, the numbers was just a PS. My comment was referring to the people who "failed to notice" that these offenders could be re-prosecuted.

IMHO typical right-wing "tunnel vision".

here goes the "right wing" knee jerk response again.

Considering Washington State has been predominantly democratically controlled in it's house, senate, and state/local government offices and services, perhaps there should be looking at your own house for fixcing things first.

Bad laws, and gorvenment stupidity iare a bipartisan affair.

Originally posted by gekko
OK redhat, the article obviously cant agree with itself. I guess Yahoo isn't exactly a broadsheet newspaper.


Anyhow, the numbers was just a PS. My comment was referring to the people who "failed to notice" that these offenders could be re-prosecuted.

IMHO typical right-wing "tunnel vision".

.
The term 'Child Killers' is meant to be a hot button topic and grab your attention and shock you.
Try to keep your hysteria in check and think rationally. Thx.

Excuse me, but hasn't the definition between manslaughter and murder, been the intent of the perpetrator? intended to = murder; unintentional [or undefined] = manslaughter.

Prosecutors shouldn't get a free ride that has never been there before in the law.

I can't imagine it would be that hard to convince most juries in many of these cases that the intent was to cause death.

From the article it sounds like some of these people may still be additionally prosecutable.

Many of these victims are the children of the perps or GFs or BFs of the parent. David Crane killed his nephew.
Could it be that the real question here is 'Are some people are not really qualified to raise children?'
Additionally be careful of whom you entrust your child's care to.

I don't see how a rational person has a problem with precise clear law.

edit spelling

[edit on 1-2-2005 by slank]

Originally posted by Phugedaboudet
[...] perhaps there should be looking at your own house for fixcing things first.

Im not american, so thankfully its not my house to fix.

Bad laws, and gorvenment stupidity iare a bipartisan affair.

I don't know what bipartisan means, but Im pretty sure I agree.

Anyway, the offenders are re-prosecutable. I agree with slank. The post seems to be aimed mostly at grabbing some attention. I hope ATS news isn't turning tabloid on us...