Russia deploys missile in apparent treaty violation

Hypnocratic states of America. The evil ruuskie are 'near a warship' and 'off shore' somewhere 'near' a place called Delaware in a boat.

Shhh, NATO armor isn't really jammed up against Russia's border across Eastern Europe.

originally posted by: intrptr

Hypnocratic states of America. The evil ruuskie are 'near a warship' and 'off shore' somewhere 'near' a place called Delaware in a boat.

Shhh, NATO armor isn't really jammed up against Russia's border across Eastern Europe.

I can agree with that, if you are implying that fears seem to be driven by events that appear to be fairly normal, like the Russian ship of the East coast.

This caught my eye because not only did NATO comment on it, but the SD as well.

originally posted by: Snarl
If I was Trump ... I'd just throw the treaty in the fireplace.

We don't need no stinkin' treaties. The Russians do. Let 'em go broke again like they did while Gorbachev was seated.

The Russians go broke and it's goodbye Putin. I figured that out in less than 12 seconds. I wonder how long it took Trump's staff?

And that would start a war and cause a lot of people to die, and that is why you are not president.

a reply to: introvert

One has to wonder if this is just a posturing move by Russia in order to assert it potential power, a shot across NATO's bow, or perhaps a first test of Trump's leadership.

Didn't I hear Trump proclaimed he wanted to "take the US out of NATO"? Or was that a dream?

Seems to me like the usual rhetoric. Russia is always prepared to have "warmer ties" with the next administration. But a month after inauguration, Russia is Russia and America is America. No new alliances, no new behavior. Nothing changes with the president's as far as the Kremlin is concerned.

I'm concerned about the timing. If the dossier is legit and Flynn is out after negotiating with Russia, could this be an effort to convince Trump to stick to a deal or else?

a reply to: introvert
Meh... The US and NATO gave assurances to Russia during the reunification of Germany that the alliance would not spread one inch eastward. Now NATO is on Russia's border. I say to hell with NATO. We will not go to war over Lithuania or other Baltic states.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: introvert

Well the story is from CNN, so there is probably a lot of details left out of it, and probably some twists put into it.

I don't think the source I chose to link to is important whatsoever.

This is a real event that we must keep an eye on.

Actually the source is definitely important. CNN likes to leave out convenient details to make mountains out of molehills for what it's worth.

It's a developing story. Any news outlet at this point will not have all of the details.

I'd like to discuss the topic if you don't mind. If you have an ax to grind about fake news, or some other nonsense, go find a more appropriate thread.

I wasn't trying to start an arguement, was just simply pointing something out.

So after some looking it seems both sides have violated the treaty. The US' missile defense shield is capable of launching tomahawk cruise missiles and is deployed in Europe. The US previously got away with tomahawk missile development and testing because they were solely ship based/launched. The Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System is capable of firing the same missiles as the Mark 41 Vertical Launching System.

The Russians have made and tested new 9M729 missile - SSC-X-8(page is russian, you will need to use translate). The first test was apparently in 2008, and in 2011 the Obama administration had deemed them a compliance concern.

In short, this isn't new, and both sides are guilty of violation.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: the owlbear

I'm not familiar with past actions similar to this. Is this "common" from time to time or is this the first violation of the treaty?

The olwbear is 100% right. But he also missed something. Yes NATO is provoking with its missle defence for years but the biggest 'crap' is from month ago when NATO violated the treaties, maybe even not once. The one I remember is the sending of warships in the black sea - which act is ABSURD. It was pure military tactical offence against Russia which VIOLATED signed contracts and such. Probably in USA nobody cared about this and I doubt CNN reported it... however if you reach you would find some independend media reporting about it. Thus said, lets remember the history, which learns us that in the most cases the provocations were US generated. Well known fact.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
I'm concerned about the timing. If the dossier is legit and Flynn is out after negotiating with Russia, could this be an effort to convince Trump to stick to a deal or else?

That's how spin works. This was an issue in 2008 that went unresolved. Now it's suddenly a big deal because...Trump.

all treatty's were expiled by the russians years ago in andswer of the boycot.....no big deal...a reply to: introvert

a reply to: introvert

Or it's just Fake News

It doesn't say where it is or how it's violating anything.

Fake news?

This have not showed up in Norwegian media......

Havent even heard Jens Stoltenberg mention it, he would have mentioned it Public since all eyes are on Russia these days.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
I'm concerned about the timing. If the dossier is legit and Flynn is out after negotiating with Russia, could this be an effort to convince Trump to stick to a deal or else?

That is what concerns me as well.

With it now being reported that Russia and the campaign were in contact throughout the campaign, it opens up the possibility that Trump is compromised.

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: introvert

Well the story is from CNN, so there is probably a lot of details left out of it, and probably some twists put into it.

I don't think the source I chose to link to is important whatsoever.

This is a real event that we must keep an eye on.

Actually the source is definitely important. CNN likes to leave out convenient details to make mountains out of molehills for what it's worth.

It's a developing story. Any news outlet at this point will not have all of the details.

I'd like to discuss the topic if you don't mind. If you have an ax to grind about fake news, or some other nonsense, go find a more appropriate thread.

I wasn't trying to start an arguement, was just simply pointing something out.

So after some looking it seems both sides have violated the treaty. The US' missile defense shield is capable of launching tomahawk cruise missiles and is deployed in Europe. The US previously got away with tomahawk missile development and testing because they were solely ship based/launched. The Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System is capable of firing the same missiles as the Mark 41 Vertical Launching System.

The Russians have made and tested new 9M729 missile - SSC-X-8(page is russian, you will need to use translate). The first test was apparently in 2008, and in 2011 the Obama administration had deemed them a compliance concern.

In short, this isn't new, and both sides are guilty of violation.

That is the sort of information I was looking for. Thanks.

a reply to: introvert

CNN

I thought they liked Russia.

And here I was still reading about the US deploying troops in Europe, as a form of aggression..

More sane minds reminded me, it's just how things are, with the military .

Never mind, someone will claim it's all boisterous muscle twitching. and forget, the world is actually teetering on an edge.

We're all gonna die, you know this, right?? The globalists are not happy. and will say and do anything to make their plan happen earlier than they had hoped.

divide and conquer. or in their case, divide and rule.

a reply to: daryllyn

The USA sent 4000 tanks to Europe and is still sending stuff there they are virtually on a war footing because that's what your lunatic leaders at the Pentagon and Nato are telegraphing.

a reply to: Vector99

Partisan tit for tat needs to be set aside regarding this Flynn/Trump/Russia thing. Flynn resigning isn't the end of this, it's just the first card to fall. The GOP and Trump supporters need to see this for the earthquake-sized scandal that it is or risk the midterms.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
a reply to: Vector99

Partisan tit for tat needs to be set aside regarding this Flynn/Trump/Russia thing. Flynn resigning isn't the end of this, it's just the first card to fall. The GOP and Trump supporters need to see this for the earthquake-sized scandal that it is or risk the midterms.

It's 100% a partisan leak, meant 100% to damage the Trump admin reputation.

Think about it, it's confirmed that it was leaked, so obviously they have the conversations recorded as well. If there actually was anything illegal done, don't you think Flynn would be under arrest right now? They leaked the fact that he spoke with people from Russia, with absolutely no details, leaving it completely up to the news to speculate and spin it. If he had violated the Logan act, he would be incarcerated right now.