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Jehovahs witness....

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posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 10:55 PM
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Just out of curiosity, what if I was referring to myself? Would my claims be any less valid? Why would emotionality prevent you from examining the facts?

No, I never experienced abuse but I know people who have and I tend to chafe when people like you are insensitive about the subject. I think it's far more odd that you would have a problem with my anger. It's not like we're talking about the Catholic church here. This is a cult whose current form really started less than 100 years ago. It's a stupid little group and everyone in it should find a better belief-system.

And as for my comments about their NWO objectives, don't get me wrong; I'm not saying the rank-and-file J-Dubs are bad. Most of their members are just brainwashed victims. However, they will obey every order from the Watchtower, even letting their own children die (via blood-refusal). Neither of us can say what order will come down from high, but one thing's for sure: The JWs are not Americans nor do they give a plug nickel about the country that shields them.

Personally I see no reason for a cult to be allowed to go door to door and sucker people in. Particularly when they are spending their legal monies to silence abused kids. It's interesting to me that you have a problem with my anger on this topic, Intrepid. What kind of things make you angry, if not child abuse?




posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 11:18 PM
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The Witnesses don't "excommunicate" people, that's a Catholic process, they "disfellowship".

So you didn't even watch the video? Not really looking to find any truth, just looking to defend what you already believe?

Excommunication is a term that Heidi used so as to make the interview more comprehensible to listeners. Is that so hard to figure out? The effect is the same: You are kicked out and everyone in the JW church will not talk to you. If these girls used terms like 'disfellowshipping' and 'governing body', the TV audience will not understand what is being said.

Utterly amazing how you can think their testimony is a lie. These girls faced total excommunication for revealing what happened to them. Why would they ruin their own lives? Do yourself a favor and read up on the situation. BTW, I'm sorry you spent 24 years as a JW only to get kicked out for smoking. Do you feel those years were well-spent?



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps

The Witnesses don't "excommunicate" people, that's a Catholic process, they "disfellowship".

So you didn't even watch the video? Not really looking to find any truth, just looking to defend what you already believe?

Do you feel those years were well-spent?


Didn't have to read it, I knew it would be a trash piece. I have yet to see a good one about the JW's.

That's a tough question to answer. I was calmer then, having faith. Also studying world religions was worthwhile. It was limiting though but I'd have to go with, yes.



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 11:39 PM
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Didn't have to read it, I knew it would be a trash piece.

How can video evidence from CNN be considered a 'trash piece'? You don't see any pain in these girls' eyes as they are talking? Do you realize how much abuse has to pile up before it begins to seep past the cracks like this? The Watchtower has been fighting child-molestation scandals for decades and has been successful at it by their practice of kicking people out and closing ranks behind them. There were thousands of letters written to Brooklyn through the eighties and nineties and the Watchtower did nothing about it. When somebody has authority inside the JW church, they can commit molestation to their heart's content so long as they are alone with the child (no third witness to the crime). There are no reprisals and the Watchtower will actively work to prevent any outside knowledge of the incident.

Your statement that "If they abused a child, they would surely be kicked out" is totally and utterly false and it was a pleasure to expose that fact. Thanks for the opportunity.





[edit on 5-3-2005 by smallpeeps]



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
Your statement that "If they abused a child, they would surely be kicked out" is totally and utterly false and it was a pleasure to expose that fact. Thanks for the opportunity.

[edit on 5-3-2005 by smallpeeps]


You certainly must be a happy individual, because "Ignorance is bliss". You certainly are showing a lot of that which makes bliss. That is the only thing you have exposed. If you just want to debate, fine, I'll take the gloves off. I've been playing nice to this point but when talking about child abuse, you seem to neglect the most rampant in the world, Catholicism. This will be the 3rd time I mentioned it. BTW, to the Catholics reading this, I am not pointing a finger at you but the documentation against priests is extensive. I think they should be allowed to marry. But that's another topic.

Peeps, you certainly have issues with the Witnesses, I will be more than willing to continue with this, however, I'm not going to be as passive, your inabillity to see beyond what you choose to see warrants it.

Log out all you want, I use my Subscribed Threads.


[edit on 5-3-2005 by intrepid]



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 11:59 PM
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This thread is about JWs. Please stay on topic. Everybody knows that Catholics have been concealing child molestors also, so what's your point? It's like Charles Manson's defense lawyer standing up and saying, "But John Wayne Gacy killed people too!"

I'm not picking a fight with you 'trepid, but you seem determined to defend this cult and I am equally determined to reveal the truth about them. If you take offense at what I have said, that's your right. I hope this thread goes ten pages.






[edit on 6-3-2005 by smallpeeps]



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
This thread is about JWs. Please stay on topic. Everybody knows that catholics have been concealing child molestors also, so what's your point? It's like Charles Manson's defense lawyer standing up and saying, "But John Wyane Gacy killed people too!"

I'm not picking a fight with you 'trepid, but you seem determined to defend this cult and I am equally determined to reveal the truth about them. If you take offense at what I have said, that's your right. I hope this thread goes ten pages.


That is the most inane post I have seen to date. Manson's trial came to pass decades before Gacy's. I am not defending a "cult", I'm denying ignorance. Damn, you aren't even making it difficult.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 12:12 AM
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Whoops, got 'em reversed there. Gacy was later, of course.

That was the most insane post you ever saw? Wow. How does my insanity prevent you from making your great defense of the Watchtower? Frankly, I think my points have been pretty lucid and well researched. Which part didn't you understand?



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid
That is the most inane post I have seen to date. Manson's trial came to pass decades before Gacy's.



Originally posted by smallpeeps
Whoops, got 'em reversed there. Gacy was later, of course.

That was the most insane post you ever saw? Wow. How does my insanity prevent you from making your great defense of the Watchtower? Frankly, I think my points have been pretty lucid and well researched. Which part didn't you understand?


Do you read before you post. I think that anyone NOT on pshycotropic drugs can see the difference. Or lack there of. I'm not defending the Watchtower, I'm defending this site from tripe.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 12:19 AM
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I'm defending this site from tripe

How?



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
How?


See my last post. Christ, do I need to bring out the finger puppets?



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 12:38 AM
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I read all your posts on this thread and I don't see how any of them kept 'tripe' off ATS. In fact, your comment about being "sure that molestors would be kicked out" is quite tripe-like, wouldn't you say? Also, your attempts to shift the issue by mentioning other molesting churches (Catholics), doesn't sound like prime rib to me.

I am saying this: The Jehovah Witness church shields child abusers. Do you have a response other than to call the victims liars?



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
I am saying this: The Jehovah Witness church shields child abusers. Do you have a response other than to call the victims liars?


Yes I do, Selsen Blue is an excellent dandruff shampoo. That has as much to do with this topic as your posts.

I'm betting you won't get this one either.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 12:53 AM
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Yes I do, Selsen Blue is an excellent dandruff shampoo. That has as much to do with this topic as your posts.

Huh? The topic is whether child molestors would be kicked out of the Watchtower. Perhaps your memory has failed but it is YOU who raised the point, stating it as fact. You are wrong but you won't let go.

The funny thing is that you and I would have called each other 'brother' when we were inside the church. Surely we would have had a blind-eyed agreement on every issue back then, eh? Let's change the subject, M-kay?

Why do JWs refuse to do charity work? Even if a JW wants to go volunteer with a charity, the elders will discourage it, advising them to do more doorknocking instead. They'll say, "Helping them learn about Jehovah is the best way to help them." I never knew any JWs that did a darn thing for anybody except themselves. Catholics and other churches do mountains of charity work, actively helping those in need.

Why do the JW church leaders discourage their members from assisting with works of charity?



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
Why do the JW church leaders discourage their members from assisting with works of charity?


Nice hook, as I was totally done with this topic, lack of substance. The JW's want nothing to do with this world. Can't say it plainer than that.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 01:20 AM
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The JW's want nothing to do with this world.

All the more reason for the people of this world to want nothing to do with the JW's.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 01:55 AM
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Didnt David Icke write something about Jehovahs in one of his books? i think it was Children of the matrix? ill go through it tonight to see if i am right



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 10:29 AM
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U all have it right The JW do not want anything to do with this world and like i said before it dont matter want country were in "we do not care about the country were in" now thats not to say that i dont care about what happen on 9-11 i think its horrible what happen to this country on that day, the bible Simply say that God will do away with all Governments on earth now If God is going to do this Why would want to be apart of the world government when Jehovah Decides Enough is Enough, the bible say do not Kill, it also says to remain nuetral during any political or military Conflict plain and simply put so there is another way that we are no part of this world, interesting fact when 9-11 happen did you know that the Bible and tract society Lend all of there contruction equipment and cranes and dump truck as well as provided Food and water ALL FOR FREE while owners of some contruction companies and restuarants charged Fire departments and EMS services Fees for water and food, We Jehovahs Witnesses care about people I volunteer my time To talk to others about Jehovahs promise of paradise on earth with no wars and sickness and Food shortages, thats what all true JWs want is peace on earth, and as far as gving to the community I currently Volunteer for The Fire department and as well as Search and Rescue as do many other witnesses that i know. Like i have said there are some who claim to be JWs but lead a double life and when discovered they are offered help to correct there lives such as spiritual encouragement or some even seek medical treatment but only if the person says that they want nothing to do with JWs are removed from the congregation.
BLOOD TRANSFUSSION why dont they accept? Well plain and simply put Acts 15:29 says Keep obstaining from blood, Here is my life example, when i was 19 myself and three friends were in a bad car accident the two in the back seat were fine except us two up front myself 19 yrs old and my younger sister 16, Dr asked me if this is how i felt and i said that i will accept Non Blood Volume expanders but i would not accept blood, since the blood in the body is 50% water it is important to increase the volume then the body Speeds up production of Red Blood cells into the body,now obviously i lived to tell about with no complication but my younger sister is a different story even though she and my parents told the doctors no blood They got court order to give her blood Because she was under 18 which left my parents with no control over what happen she Died that night Oct 6 2000 from Blood Transfussion complications her body rejected the blood put in her system and shut down so do not critisize us because of our belief of obstaining from blood, it is much safer to use non blood expanders and let your body relenish lost cells then to try and Feed you body someone elses blood, and plus if my situation is that serious that i could Die without blood transfsion can the doctor Totaly promise that i will live? I could have Died either way but Jehovah says that those who follow his commandments and Faithfully follow him and keep seperate from the world will be in paradise, Jesus had faith that Jehovah would Bring him back from the Dead when he was killed, abraham had faith that Jehovah that Jehovah would resurect his son so i have faith that even if i die from not taking blood transfusion That i will be in paradise for follwing Jehovahs commandments. And even my sister was givin blood she had no choice And i have faith to that i will see her again in paradise.
And yes im very familiar with what apostasy is i need no studying on it im well educated on what apostasy is, so dont tell me the education will do me good maybe it would do you good to read some about JWs and truly come to understand what they beleive in and why before people make such blind statements because of what they hear and CNN, CNN is the media people CNN had most people believing that Iraq had WMDs but hey guess what they dont have any



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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Zak, please use paragraphs. It's that little button called 'Enter' down there on your keyboard. It's very useful.


when 9-11 happen did you know that the Bible and tract society Lend all of there contruction equipment and cranes and dump truck as well as provided Food and water ALL FOR FREE

Wow great. So when the worst tragedy happens right down the street, they won't charge people for the equipment use. That is a sad contrast to churches who spend every day giving their money and time and support to people who need it. Why does the congregation discourage its members from working with charities?


Well plain and simply put Acts 15:29 says Keep obstaining from blood

Even if you want to live your life by every word of the bible (mistake), you are still accepting the Watchtower's interpretation of this scripture. Tell me, is this scripture talking about blood transfusions? Life and death? No. The context of the bible tells any independant thinker that when life and death are on the line, blood can be transfused. Why do you follow Paul and the Torah but not Christ Jesus? Christ said nothing about transfusions. Don't you think he would have if it were important. Oh, I forgot your church exists only to downplay Jesus' role in the bible. He's just a reflector for his Hebrew God father.

Why does the Watchtower let kids die? I don't see anything in the bible that says to let your kid die. Jesus said "Let the little children come to me." not "Let the little children die on the operating table."


And i have faith to that i will see her again in paradise.

Sorry to hear of your loss but you aren't doing your sister any favors by perpetuating the Jehovah junk.

Might I suggest that your tragic accident has effectively solidified your position? Once a person loses a family member in a blood-situation like yours, there's no hope of them ever shedding the JW lies because you MUST stay inside the organization in order to see your sister again in the 'resurrection'.

After hearing this, I am truly sad for you, Zak. Not only did the Watchtower make your car accident worse by interfering with the blood issue, they have now sunk their untruths deep inside you and you feel that if you leave the Watchtower, you'll never see her again. I think that's tragic. How long did your parents refuse blood for her before that court order came? How long did she bleed on the table while this was all being decided?


im well educated on what apostasy is

No, clearly you're not, which is evident by your first use of the term. You used the term 'apostate' to refer to those who have left the JWs. It refers to anybody who leaves a religion and then attacks that religion. Very common. The Watchtower loves apostates, as long as they are from other churches and they become JW doorknockers.


before people make such blind statements because of what they hear and CNN, CNN is the media people CNN had most people believing that Iraq had WMDs but hey guess what they dont have any

Who's blind? You're inside a religious cult my friend. You are the blind one.

And since you are a JW, you know nothing about the world around you, so let me clarify: The CIA said there were WMDs in Iraq, not CNN. CNN is a news company, albeit a crooked one but they do have some real news. Why mention it, though, since your only purpose as a JW is to defend Jehovah and his secretive doorknocking church.

The JW molestation issue is real and your denial of it as an active JW is sad, cruel and irresponsible.

Think about it: Wouldn't Jehovah want his church to be clean? Why don't the rank-and-file JWs revolt rather than be associated with these heinous men who hide inside this church? There realy isn't much to that church anyway, just a bunch of boring meetings and a bunch of doorknocking. Why don't these people prosecute child molestors in their midst?

Couldn't you have all JWs stay home from meetings for a month in protest? They could demand to see the society's secret records of the 25,000+ child molestors inside their ranks. Don't you think that would be interesting information for JWs to know? Surely there's Catholics who would like to change the filth of their church but that's a huge task for Catholics. For the JWs it could happen in a week or so but they are too brainwashed to care.




[edit on 6-3-2005 by smallpeeps]



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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Zak, how come there's lots of different religions on earth who all have different gods, who all say that 'thier god created it all'...?

What do you say to those religions if we follow your route by saying, yes, there is indeed a maker? Which god is the maker? did they all work together under a construction contract? ' I'll do this bit, you do that bit!'

I'd like to see your answer to that.


Still no answer zak on my above question zak?

Ps. I'm sorry to hear about your sister, i was going to ask a similar question to that of smallpeeps, but i decided there is a line which shouldn't be crossed.




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