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Vets/military personnel - please comment on "I like people who weren't captured"

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posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 09:29 AM
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I thought it was a very unfortunate comment and not something I would ever say. Capture in conflict can happen for a lot of different reasons and it is often not anyone's fault. There are plenty of examples of capture being heroically bared. There are plenty of instances in which the heroic decision to accept capture prevented empty and meaningless loss of life.

a reply to: Sublimecraft




posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 09:31 AM
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War wouldn't happen if humanity wasn't so ignorant, blind and stupid.

War is hell. Do you want to perpetuate hell on earth?

We abandoned the forests, and built our cities with its technologies. But when our tribes were broken up, we lost culture, and the diplomacy of them. So we lost ourselves to war.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: Sublimecraft

I'm a Veteran. 21 years of service. Four combat deployments. Five non-combat deployments in #%$^ countries (plus 23 months in Korea).

I've seen Heroes. We as a population or perhaps generation have lost the meaning of the word through overuse and incorrect application.

A Hero is one that goes "above and beyond" in life threatening situations. All soldiers are expected to fight the enemy (and risk their lives doing it), all soldiers know the risks of capture. Simply doing ones job does not make one a Hero, doing it poorly, even more so.

Knowing that any soldier was captured (even Marines) I would have risked and even given my life to see them free. We had several occasions where we were running all day-all night when one of the soldiers in country went missing. We had men and women killed while searching. Never underestimate the lengths we go to in order to retrieve our own. Nor, the love, fear, and angst involved with their capture.

All that being said - when a man spends 40 years winning elections and shielding himself from retaliation through "I was a POW" the value of the event diminishes. When "I was a POW" is used as a shield while doing everything in one's power to damage the military services (pay & benefits have direct and indirect effects on the military), the phrase is diminished. How horrible it must have been, that he has to remind everyone during election cycles and more so when he is challenged on any issue.

It's not the propaganda films and broadcasts. Every man will break under the circumstances. Anyone that has a negative attitude about McCain because he "broke" is filled with more bravura than intelligence. Or, they are dishonest in their dislike of McCain and use his "breaking" as ammunition.

McCain is no different than Jessica Lynch. Both crashed and were taken prisoner. I have seen heroism, that isn't it. How many hundreds of service members were killed doing their job? We'll never know. I personally can tell you of two cases, one was killed while breeching a doorway when his #2 man was shot on entry (he stood over the fallen soldier and was stationary too long). The other was hit with shrapnel when eating lunch at BIAP. Are they both heroes? They were both my friends and I will always respect what they were doing, but the two are not the same.

I can only imagine that being a POW is horrific. Being a POW does not make one a hero. How one behaves before the enemy "could" make them a hero. What one does with the POW status will greatly effect how they are seen as POW's. Fight for soldiers/consider options other than war - what we expect. Put up posters and claim "POW" whenever a question is asked that you don't like while harming the services and being a "hawk" - not what we expect.

Lest we forget - McCain said something about Trump. Trump "throat punched" McCain. It didn't bother me in the slightest because McCain has made a career out of being a POW and "hero". Trump's comment was about McCain as it is/was his most vulnerable spot.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: fencesitter85

I'm im the minority here. I have a ton of respect for McCain. Because his father was the Admiral in charge of the Pacific Fleet at the time, McCain was a high value target and when a deal was made to secure his release, he refused to leave unless everyone else visiting the Hanoi Hilton were also released. He then endured a few more years of extremely brutal torture and 45 years later still can't use his one arm because of all of the damage done to him as a POW. It's pretty easy for people to sit here from the comfort of their keyboards and talk s# about Sen. McCain and call him a traitor when they've never had to be in such a position. I completely disagree with the Senators politics and picking Palin as his VP candidate shows a decided lack of wisdom in his old age but you can't take away the fact that he was willing to die and suffer immensely because at one point in his life he actually had some principles.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 10:33 AM
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a reply to: peter vlar

Well, look at it this way.

As an Admiral, his father would have known that the entire Vietnam war was based on the Lie of the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
Yet he didn't speak out and left his son in a POW camp.

As a Senator, McCain is fully aware of the Gulf of Tonkin incident yet continues to advocate for more Wars on behalf of the military industrial complex.

He's sold his soul and deserves no respect or admiration.

A family tradition of scumbaggery if you ask me.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 10:35 AM
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Face it, he burned McCain and McCain had it coming. It was hilarious.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 10:41 AM
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originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: fencesitter85

It disgusted me when he said it. I have friends in the US Navy, active, and if they were ever in the situation where they were captured and detained by the enemy it would break my heart to think that others would not have their backs insofar that they would be not deemed a war hero if they survived to tell the tale.

Everyone whose commented in this thread and has served, and I know all of you who have, I'll ask this - circumstances surrounding capture aside, and forgetting that it's McCain for a moment, why would that act (being captured) result in you losing respect for your man?

I think the premise here that the OP was saying is how I felt when Trump said what he said and yes, I totally understand the context in which he said it as I saw the full interview.

I found it disrespectful, I'll be honest here.

McCain is a tool, just so we're clear, for me, my comments aren't about McCain but the sentiment I'm feeling from my mates here in this thread?

Thoughts?



After being spit on , called everthing under the sun , denied jobs when returned lost all respect for the public . As to mccain its his actions and profiteering from bloodshed that give me low opinion of him and his ilk .



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 10:45 AM
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originally posted by: VengefulGhost

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: fencesitter85

It disgusted me when he said it. I have friends in the US Navy, active, and if they were ever in the situation where they were captured and detained by the enemy it would break my heart to think that others would not have their backs insofar that they would be not deemed a war hero if they survived to tell the tale.

Everyone whose commented in this thread and has served, and I know all of you who have, I'll ask this - circumstances surrounding capture aside, and forgetting that it's McCain for a moment, why would that act (being captured) result in you losing respect for your man?

I think the premise here that the OP was saying is how I felt when Trump said what he said and yes, I totally understand the context in which he said it as I saw the full interview.

I found it disrespectful, I'll be honest here.

McCain is a tool, just so we're clear, for me, my comments aren't about McCain but the sentiment I'm feeling from my mates here in this thread?

Thoughts?



After being spit on , called everthing under the sun , denied jobs when returned lost all respect for the public . As to mccain its his actions and profiteering from bloodshed that give me low opinion of him and his ilk .


When confronted by a peace protestor walk up to him, look him in the eye, smile, shake him warmly by the hand, and then wink at his girlfriend. She knows she's dating a pussy.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 10:45 AM
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There's only one relevant response to what Trump said here.

I was in the military and I have friends that served and were wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan and some of them have said you never get captured you fight to the death etc. Sure...that's all well and good until you actually research what happened to John McCain. I Quote...but this is common knowledge and all over the internet...look it up yourself.

McCain fractured both arms and a leg ejecting from the aircraft, and nearly drowned when he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake. Some North Vietnamese pulled him ashore, then others crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt and bayoneted him.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: 200Plus

Excellent post - cheers.

I fully understand where you're coming from, I just needed to hear the distinction being made about the scenario of being captured versus McCains sh!tful form since taking office and Trumps consequential comment.

Now, in saying that, he needs to bear in mind that the global audience that he is now reaching via twitter alerts and other direct comments can and have been taken out of context - this being a prime example.

Again, thanks for the post, and your service.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 11:59 AM
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Less than 10% of military is combat oriented. There are many types of heroes- the support people are often doing things that I would consider heroic. It could be just as simple as bringing you a phone to hear your kids/wife voice.

Not getting captured has no bearing on the performance and sacrifices our people make.

In my unit, we would throw away our purple hearts. As we considered them enemy marksmanship awards. Does that make us villians?

There is no one end all way to define a hero or deface a hero based on his actions - especially if you yourself did not participate in service of your country.

I have said it before-
Until you have served, you have no buisness talking about those who have.

I should add, I voted for Trump, but sometimes he needs to just stfu.
And McCain is an asshat...imo

Great thread by the way.

edit on 2112017 by Natas0114 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 12:06 PM
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I'm a vet from 1972.....Trump doesn't have to be perfect.....a little brash or Patton like of him, huh.....but this

He's our only hope, he could be the immoral biblical figure...that tries to take over the world...but he's our only hope
edit on 11-2-2017 by GBP/JPY because: Yup



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 12:17 PM
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Vet here as well...

I respect Mccain for his service, I respect him for surviving a horrific situation, and if you just look at his time in Hanoi it is easy to chalk him up as a hero.

But look at some of the things that went on around him, then look at how he has conducted himself since and I believe you can still respect his service without calling him a hero.

As for the rest of trumps talk... I do not care... neither party actually gives a flying fornication for the Veteran community (Hence the VA being broken since Vietnam era) so I have reached a point that I do not care... is he saving jobs, is he bringing back jobs, is he fixing the unafordable care act, is he trying to follow through on his promises... so far I think yes. So as long as that continues he can flap his gums any way he wants...



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 12:53 PM
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I'm a veteran. I took the comment to mean that he had disdain for McCain in general, not disdain for him because he was captured.

I may have read/heard the comment incorrectly, and maybe Trump really DID mean to slight McCain for being captured. If that's truly what he meant, then it was a distasteful thing to say.

But I don't think so....I put on my "Trump filter," which makes allowance for him being somewhat of an idiot with things he says sometimes, and/or the way he says them. He doesn't seem to have an internal filtering mechanism between his brain and vocal chords, most of the time.

I find it refreshing to hear him be unafraid to call folks out for questionable actions and motives. This country needs a change from the way things have been going on in politics and government for a long while now. It almost doesn't even matter WHAT the change is, but just that there is a change.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 02:16 PM
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originally posted by: CulturalResilience

originally posted by: VengefulGhost

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: fencesitter85

It disgusted me when he said it. I have friends in the US Navy, active, and if they were ever in the situation where they were captured and detained by the enemy it would break my heart to think that others would not have their backs insofar that they would be not deemed a war hero if they survived to tell the tale.

Everyone whose commented in this thread and has served, and I know all of you who have, I'll ask this - circumstances surrounding capture aside, and forgetting that it's McCain for a moment, why would that act (being captured) result in you losing respect for your man?

I think the premise here that the OP was saying is how I felt when Trump said what he said and yes, I totally understand the context in which he said it as I saw the full interview.

I found it disrespectful, I'll be honest here.

McCain is a tool, just so we're clear, for me, my comments aren't about McCain but the sentiment I'm feeling from my mates here in this thread?

Thoughts?



After being spit on , called everthing under the sun , denied jobs when returned lost all respect for the public . As to mccain its his actions and profiteering from bloodshed that give me low opinion of him and his ilk .


When confronted by a peace protestor walk up to him, look him in the eye, smile, shake him warmly by the hand, and then wink at his girlfriend. She knows she's dating a pussy.



I love that one too. Mattis doesn't f%ck around-
He's a.hunter.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 08:25 PM
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a reply to: fencesitter85

8 years served. I have no problem with it. I can't stand McCain, he's horrible.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 11:56 PM
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Hello, I am a vet. (is this the right AA meeting?)

No, I am not a Trump supporter, nor will I ever be and no I didn't vote for him either, but he is our president. Was he the best candidate? Only when it came down to him or Hillary. But he is what this country needs right now. That is to say someone whom will run the country like a business instead of treating it like his personal yacht.

As for his statement . . . well, the man is always saying something stupid and mostly I ignore it. This however actually has a spark of truth to it. Being a POW does not make you a hero, it makes you a POW. Now, are some heroes POW's? Yes. Are some POW's heroes? Yes. But being a hero does not make you a POW, and being a POW does not make you a hero. It is a fact of life. At the same time, having a chest full of medals does not make you a hero either. I've know CPTs and MAJs whom never left the FOB and came away with silver stars w/V device for orders that they gave, while the men whom carried out the orders received a CAB. So which is the hero? It depends upon whom you ask. But in my opinion, the medal on your chest does not make you a hero. The trust of your brothers is what makes you a hero.

As for Trump . . . he has never worn a uniform and never will. So I really don't think his opinion on the subject matters very much.




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