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Vets/military personnel - please comment on "I like people who weren't captured"

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posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 07:48 AM
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Hi all

I've tried several times in thread comments lately, and on twitter, to get a serious response to this. I've asked many different military folk who are also Trump supporters what they feel about this comment. To me, it's one of the most disgusting, disgraceful, and shameful things I've ever heard a person say. Particularly someone of status, whose voice is heard across such a wide platform.

Given that so many military personnel and vets are often vocally patriotic (nothing wrong with that), and so many of you guys have been through so much in your military careers, I just don't understand why this didn't enrage more Trump supporters.

I totally get that you support him, and you have your reasons for doing so. But this comes back to recent ATS discussions on how Trump's followers don't even seem to be able to say "You know what - I support him, but he does say some stupid/offensive things". There is no shame in questioning those that you follow - 'it makes you smart' as Trump would say.

So, how did the comment make you feel? To have a man who we know for a fact dodged the draft, speak about PoWs in such a sickening way?

"He's not a war hero. He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured." This is regarding a man who was in solitary for two years, and who was tortured. There should be nothing but respect for his military service for his country. Political agendas and differences should not be an excuse for saying such foul things about veterans. The correct thing would have been to commend him for his service, then to discuss the politics of the man instead.

Oh, and he said vets with PTSD aren't strong, and can't handle it. Nice.

And before anyone starts: I am not a 'liberal' nor am I a 'conservative' - it depends on the issue. I am not pro Hillary. I am not butthurt, crying, a snowflake, a leftard, a libtard, a dem shill, a Hillbot, I don't need a safe space and I've seen the butthurt salve meme more times than I can count. Let's not deflect. Let's not avoid the issue. Let's not call me stupid names or say "well Obama did drone strikes on kids". Please can you actually reply to the post, so we can have a discussion.

Many thanks.
edit on 11-2-2017 by fencesitter85 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-2-2017 by fencesitter85 because: words

edit on 11-2-2017 by fencesitter85 because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 07:54 AM
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What comments are you referring to?

Sorry I'm out of the loop right now due to work.


+3 more 
posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 07:57 AM
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a reply to: fencesitter85

16yrs still active duty.

Being captured does not make one a hero.

In my opinion, his war mongering corruption and profiting from office has far outweighed any goodwill he had from serving.

Not to mention he attempted to inflict Palin as VP on us.

McCain can go pound sand.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 07:58 AM
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a reply to: fencesitter85

I'll bite.

I didn't think anything when he said it. I've heard worse and seen worse from other politicians, other people.

People on this site have said worse things. Politicians routinely disregard veterans, just look at the VA.

I never wore the uniform because of what someone said or didn't say.

I did it because I thought it was the right thing to do.

What someone else, even civilian leadership thinks of me (or anyone else) is a moot point because I've heard far worse than Trump.

So I put it in perspective.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 08:00 AM
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I would say you answered your own question. People voted for Trump for a lot of different reasons. One reason was that they preferred him to the alternative, another was they believed that Trump is what the country needs right now. I chose those two examples as they demonstrate why someone may have cast a vote for Trump, while not agreeing with everything he says or all of his policies.

I would bet that plenty of veterans were disappointed/offended by the remark you cited, but chose not to let it affect their voting choice.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 08:06 AM
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After being captured didnt he then make propaganda clips for the enemy.
Mccain was no hero, he was a collaborator and I got the impression Trumps words were an indication of total disdain for McCain as opposed to captured soldiers

Edit: apologies guys, Im not a vet and am Aussie.

edit on 11/2/2017 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 08:09 AM
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Appreciate the responses so far, thank you. FYI I'm not trying to bait anyone; I was just genuinely shocked by how easily this comment slipped by. Again I'm not suggesting it would stop people voting for him, but even his supporters should really have been more vocal in saying 'that was a pretty silly and offensive remark'.

I know McCain isn't perfect, and agreed Palin would have been a disaster. I'm also not saying being caught = hero. But personally I think anyone who goes to fight in the name of their country is a hero - whether they're an engineer, a mechanic, a cook, whatever. They should all be lauded as heroes.

I just think there's not a great deal of balance here. Many Trump supporters (not all) seem 100% unwilling to admit that he's not perfect. He has a hell of a lot of problems, and gives us plenty of reasons to criticise him (as do most politicians). For example, as a UK citizen, I find myself supporting the conservatives because they're the lesser of two evils currently. Their policies generally line up more with my way of thinking. However, they have a LOT of issues. Some of the things they do are pretty vile, and I regularly criticise their bad decisions. Bind faith is extremely dangerous, and until Trump's core supporters start to admit that he's far from perfect, ATS is just going to continue to be a mud-slinging competition.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 08:12 AM
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a reply to: fencesitter85

Who has said Trump is perfect?

Most, if not all, would say he's an asshole.

But most probably didn't vote based on whether sunshine and rainbows shoot from his ass.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 08:14 AM
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What purpose would have been served by his supporters being more vocal about this remark exactly? Drawing more attention to the remark by speaking out against it would have played more into the hands of those who didn't want Trump as President and possibly aided Clinton into the Whitehouse. Its another question that answers itself.

a reply to: fencesitter85


edit on 11-2-2017 by CulturalResilience because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: fencesitter85

Putting on the uniform does not automatically make you a hero. There are no participation trophies in the military.
As far as Mcain, i respect him for his service, but once you run for office, all of your actions and words are open to extreme scrutiny. Trump and his entire family, are under a far worse barage of silly name calling. They seem to be handing it ok.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 08:23 AM
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trump wasnt speaking about pow's in general, he was speaking about mccain.
for you to frame the discussion that way is dishonest.
that is the same tactic the msm tried to use when trump made the comment.

trump has enough flaws to expose without having to make crap up anout him.

i do not like what trump said, but mccain is toxic, infectious human waste. i will be happy to see mccain retire from public life.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: fencesitter85

Many Trump supporters think he's perfect? Where do you guys even get this rhetoric from?
This only shows the true ignorance of some people, Trump is far from perfect and I doubt you can find a single person to disagree with that.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 08:36 AM
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a reply to: fencesitter85

Okay, here's my comment (as one who is a Vet):

Please find me a POTUS or candidate for POTUS who did not say something stupid or offending about something, in which NO ONE was offended or upset over.

You can't and won't, because such a thing does not exist.

I'll tell you the same thing that one of my supervisors told me once: If I'm not worried or upset about it, you shouldn't be either.

Does his remark upset me? No. Does it tick me off? No. Does it "trigger" me in anyway? No.

That's because I firmly believe everyone has a right to their opinion, and whether I agree with it or not doesn't mater.

I tend to judge people by what they do, and not what they say. Of course sometimes I come across someone who doesn't actually "do" anything and all they do is say things, so I'm left with little to no option there.

As a vet who was in a shooting war, I can tell you my opinion: Just because someone was in the military, doesn't make them a hero. Just because they were in a war, doesn't make them a hero. Being captured by the enemy sucks, but again, doesn't make them a hero. Being tortured by the enemy again, sucks, but doesn't make you a hero. Coming home from all that again, doesn't make you a hero, it makes you a survivor.

Who are my heroes? That person that runs into a burning building to save someone's life. That person who shields innocents with their own body to try and protect them from harm. That EMT who desperately tries to resus someone's heart and bring them back to life.

That person who tried to help someone else who was living on the street who was down on their luck and had nowhere to go and no one to turn to.

That person who went to the animal shelter and adopted a creature who was going to be put down for no other reason that no one was willing to take care of it.

My kids and grandkids.

Those are who are my heroes.

Do I care about my fellow vets? My brothers and sisters in arms? You bet your butt I do. Am I going to call them all heroes? No. Because it was the job, and we knew full well what we were getting into when we enlisted.

So Trump can have his opinion, I won't hold that against him. Why should I? Obama had opinions that people didn't like. So did W. Bush, and Bill Clinton, and H.W. Bush, and Reagan, and Carter, and Nixon and all the POTUS before them.

Actions. What they do is what really maters.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 08:49 AM
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Trump is a New Yorker and welcome to the NY way of saying stuff. His speech patterns get on my nerves but not his message.

I did not take offense at Trump's statement on McCain for IMO he was trying to make a point.... he likes winners and not losers.. I actually heard the broadcast though and not some MSN rehash and commentary.

The whole make a video and swear your mother and country were no good etc etc... Yep... the rules of conduct and the act of being a POW was changed afterwards about resisting for no one can with stand the day after day torture many of the guys went through for years.. I used to fly with a couple of returned POWs..They were glad to have a job and still be healthy enough to work.. Sad time for them and a sad time for our country for those who lived through that war will never forget and never forgive.

Who would have thought Vietnam would have turned out like it has today.. Not a bad place to visit..although it is more friendly down south than in the North.

There are many other reasons to not respect McCain for who he is and what he has become... I do not care for the man.

We left POWs behind because we would not pay the 2 billion dollar cost the Vietnamese demanded for their return. Laos we had 327 ? (don't remember the exact number now) captured alive but got no one out of Laos. McCain knew all this but never a squeak.. When America decided to cut and run that is exactly what they did with some neat sayings like, "we must not look to the past but to the future."
I had two more years to do in 75 but in 77 I got out and never looked back even though I was assured I could do 20 and retire..

Some of they guys in the Navy who actually flew and worked with McCain had good things to say about him while others said stuff that ATS would take offense of.. All seemed to think politics had changed him and not for the better even in the year 2000 time frame if my memory serves me.

So did I take offense,,nope for I heard what he said and how he said it in context.. Will others try to make a big deal out of it... Yep they are looking for anything they can point and say, "See bad man, bad president we are doomed."



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to: eriktheawful

Great point.

Heroes aren't made from necessity, but still deserve a lot respect.

True heroes are the ones that go out of their way from the will of thier hearts and expect nothing back in return.
edit on 11-2-2017 by knowledgehunter0986 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 09:02 AM
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a reply to: fencesitter85

Simply put, heroes rescue the guys who get captured.



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 09:06 AM
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Meh all politicians make stupid comments .
As to mccain no comment as it would severely violate t&c then some .



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 09:19 AM
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In my opinion, his war mongering corruption and profiting from office has far outweighed any goodwill he had from serving.



That, I believe sums it up for most vets.
He has become rich off the spilled blood of his brothers and sisters in arms.
His war profiteering and alcohol distributorships have made him a disgusting individual.

Buck



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 09:22 AM
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a reply to: fencesitter85

It disgusted me when he said it. I have friends in the US Navy, active, and if they were ever in the situation where they were captured and detained by the enemy it would break my heart to think that others would not have their backs insofar that they would be not deemed a war hero if they survived to tell the tale.

Everyone whose commented in this thread and has served, and I know all of you who have, I'll ask this - circumstances surrounding capture aside, and forgetting that it's McCain for a moment, why would that act (being captured) result in you losing respect for your man?

I think the premise here that the OP was saying is how I felt when Trump said what he said and yes, I totally understand the context in which he said it as I saw the full interview.

I found it disrespectful, I'll be honest here.

McCain is a tool, just so we're clear, for me, my comments aren't about McCain but the sentiment I'm feeling from my mates here in this thread?

Thoughts?



posted on Feb, 11 2017 @ 09:24 AM
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when Trump said that in my conspiratorial mind the first thing i thought was he was speaking tongue in cheek about McCain being "captured" by unseemly forces using him and his record as a Trojan horse in politics, sort of like a Manchurian Candidate type of thing. That is literally what i believed he was talking about, not that McCain was actually taken captive.



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