It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why do You Believe what you do?

page: 1
11

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 8 2017 @ 04:52 PM
link   
I know I often make threads with no intention (or little intention) to pretend that I think "everybody's perspective is equal". In my understanding, this libertarian, externalist view is an echo of Human social dysfuntion, usually taken by those who have some advantage they want to preserve. This is essentially a wishful self-justification to do what your body already wants to do. It's thus the same sort of stuff as what animals do: defend against things which threaten you, by advantageously pursuing your own good.

So for me,

That's the Real

, and everything else which departs from this core biological reality is a fantasy that people make the dangerous mistake - existentially and ontologically costly for them, as it must be - of thinking that their belief is something necessarily means that it has any truth outside the Human body and social reality it "creates" its very temporary existence.

Why do you believe what you do?



Is it faith or reason (the two options, I imagine)? The person who thinks "anything" can be true would of course see everything as faith-based, even reason i.e. one has a faith in reasons superiority.

I do think reason is superior to faith, but I do not think reason is sufficient. This means that reason, like any non-linear equation, yields a "remainder" that entrails the property of faith i.e. a non-discursively achieved sense of trust, whenever we use it.

What exactly is reason? Reason could be seen as the "minds attentiveness to regularity". Living in nature - amidst non-linear realities, converts into the sophisticated Hominids perception the causal relations between things. It is because of this that I believe Human beings in Africa achieved a very high coherency in their organismic functioning.



This off-repeated figure I post really seeks to emphasize how the expressed phenomenon: Human consciousness - is an "outgrowth" - like the lotus sitting atop the pond - which emerges from the above sort of dynamics. Importantly - and essential to this picture - is that our ancestor Humans lived in CONTINUOUS contact with one another - which means that their biodynamical (fundamentally self-regenerating with reference to changes in environment) organization as a creature was always being constructed towards the same referents.

Intelligent people must immediately understand what this means: it means that our phenomenology of experience, around 150,000 years ago, must have been fundamentally different from the ones we experience today.

Think about the many differences: roads, houses, jobs to work, movement from one known context (relaxation) to unknown contexts (unconscious tension, self-observation). How do you think this repeated self-organization affects how we know ourselves and the nature of reality? Why do we think the unreality of linearity - abstract glorification of mathematics, as in pythagoreanism - reckons against the backdrop of the way ALL OF REALITY, i.e. the macrocosmic, mesocosmic and microcosmic expressions of matter - actually works i.e. non-linearly?

Reason, then, is the minds attunement to the regularities of things - witnessed in all life, the seasons, the weather - it becomes very obvious how things work i.e. how we ourselves work. After all, we're being continuously reminded of it by our engagements within and as part of the natural world?

Humans will likely destroy the conditions for Human Life if We Don't Step Away From Simplistic Linear Explanations of Things.



I think anyone who understands the profundity of complexity science since the 1980's understands that all this craziness in our world is a function of a cult of "linearists" acting out - very unconsciously, hidden, clearly, behind the illusions of narrative/language - the way linear -thinking, motivated into existence by the individual Human mind becoming more and more motivated towards self-enhancement at the expense of and for the purpose of distinguishing themselves from others.

The horror of egotism is that it is motivated into existence i.e. ontologically CAUSED, by traumatic experiences committed by others against the body's neurodynamism.

Think about it. You could have taken good old Donald, on that very day when he was taken out of his mothers body - a lunar eclipse - and raised in a normal home, and if exposed again and again to the face of love - to face's that loved and understood his anger, pain and frustration, that he and his body could have been brought back to normality - to the way nature tends to work outside the influence of a traumatic external culture.

In other words, I think Humans are very prone to fantasies about the after-life that probably have no basis in reality. The reality we live within and emerge from, is one - from the astral realms above to the material foundations that energize our bodies - all of it is one - with the top emerging from the dynamics of the Human body - and yet, strangely, some people believe death doesn't extinguish the "mental vehicle". I may be wrong and a little naive here - I don't much about reality beyond what science explores. The bottom-up is my expertise, whereas those of a different inclination may be all 'top-down'.

Yes, but the top-down can delude and give one the very wrong sense of there being anything but one reality. If, as I believe, reality is one - from the mental 'planes' where Humans can astrally meet, to the physical world - the planet Earth - then if you were to destroy the conditions for life on planet Earth, you would, in essence, destroy existence as well: the mental body exists by virtue of its ecological relationship to existing bodies, themselves contained in a planetary context.

So existence is done for if people can't come to recognize what we are - how things work, how emotions work - ontologically as well as semantically (socially) - that there is only 'one reality' - the world we create between one another in our ethical relations acts upon the fundamental inclination towards symmetry within matter - if we affirm one another, we grow neurologically over-time; if we deny one another, we create false realities - pleasant, I imagine, for some, but a whole lot of pain and suffering for the whole.

Since all things are inter-related, the planet has been brought to the brink of such a linear self-serving logic. Planet - existence, beauty - go bye-bye? Or, we can all work to wake other people up to the way culture has ineluctable directions - probabilities, so that we can no longer play games as if morality - how we feel the need to act - has no deep relations to the material structure of reality. It does. look up the concept "poverty of the commons", and see how it works here: if everyone feels "they" deserve to be free to act as they want, the material conditions of existence are undermined - and so existence goes bye-bye, with no real assurance that anything more will come.

Such an outcome seems too impossible for me to think of. Most Humans do not posses a "death urge" - although Freud thought so.
edit on 8-2-2017 by Astrocyte because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/8/2017 by kosmicjack because: fixed title speling

edit on 8-2-2017 by Astrocyte because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 8 2017 @ 04:57 PM
link   
By this I mean, most Humans will turn to a life-affirming spirituality, and through that approach, come to purge themselves of disorienting and confusing emotions that make life problematic and psychologically troublesome.

Yet Freud thought this, which I consider very very interesting.

Who was Freud existing among, if not Vienna and Paris' intellectual elite? By 1900, Freud was becoming internationally known, and cavorting - as all upstart intellectuals do - in the context of the highest culture - with nobles, rich socialites and others - afffirming what is and isn't valuable, good and true.

See how this culture trickled down into Freuds ideas, and established within our modern vernacular the naturalness of wanting to kill and destroy yourself? Such demon's - of course - derive from a lack of recognition of the needs of others - which Freud's various writings oftentimes establish as the normal way of relating to his patients: as objects which had to conform to Freud's very linear (beside the concept of transference/counter-transference, much of his thinking was idiotic) blue-print of Human nature.

This habit of proposing something - and mindlessly ignoring all the other possibilities for explanation - and then finding confirmation of your beliefs where ever you look - is typical of the thinking western elites do: they are trapped in a feedback loop chasing after the cheese of their last eagerly experienced proposition. Is this logical, or simply the the logic of the desire for more social power? Yes, it feels good....now. But life changes - and when it changes for the worse, we change - and so our experience of identity changes, which ultimately changes everything about us.

The person who needs to "objectify" himself - his ego, his identity, his "brand" - has this naive idea that a future time period will not come when this identity, ego and "brand" will be broken down by suffering into the original state (symmetry). Trying to contemplate the existences of other persons beyond this life is intrinsically impossible - yet I think other people are just as real as me, and so are just as curious (or should be) about their existence as I am - of myself as well as theirs.

If its undestood that "power" - or the pursuit, is the manifestation of asymmetry between Human subjects, you will understand that your present existence is an expression of that process within matter, to which your own personal existence was shaped by. The larger the power - or differential felt - between yourself and others, the greater the "direction" of separation. Yet, look at chaotic dynamics and - being so chaotic - notice how even they achieve symmetry over time. Look at the so-called Lorenz attractor: it seems so complex and random at one level, but move further out, and you the symmetry by which it ultimately attains.
edit on 8-2-2017 by Astrocyte because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2017 @ 05:01 PM
link   


Why do you believe what you do?





What exactly is reason?


To blow of steam constructively instead of destructively.




The horror of egotism is that it is motivated into existence i.e. ontologically CAUSED, by traumatic experiences committed by others against the body's neurodynamism


I've never once said anyone has to agree with what I think,

The only thing I ask is to be allowed to think.



posted on Feb, 8 2017 @ 05:08 PM
link   
a reply to: Astrocyte


Why do You Believe what you do?


Because I know it to be true.

Its less about beliefs at that point.

"Knowing" is not the same as believing.

Sorry if I dumbed it down, the title elicited this response.



posted on Feb, 8 2017 @ 05:12 PM
link   
a reply to: Astrocyte

I'm sorry, this time you lost me with the first paragraph.
Everything is belief. Except for the things which are applicable and repeatable.

And Freud had to deal with middle to upper class Austrians and Germans. Might very well be they were the original goths.



posted on Feb, 8 2017 @ 05:26 PM
link   
a reply to: Astrocyte

I believe in love .That is what I try to do better each time . peace



posted on Feb, 8 2017 @ 06:14 PM
link   
a reply to: Peeple


Everything is belief. Except for the things which are applicable and repeatable.

I think you contradicted your beliefs.



posted on Feb, 8 2017 @ 07:55 PM
link   
Because my cat told me its true .



posted on Feb, 9 2017 @ 04:01 AM
link   

originally posted by: Astrocyte
Why do You Believe what you do?

'Beliefs' are a pathologically symptomatic infection of the imagination, the ego, vanity!
No one 'chooses' what to 'believe'.
Like all infections, 'beliefs' are caught and spread!


I know I often make threads with no intention (or little intention) to pretend that I think "everybody's perspective is equal".

Pretence is only necessary for the ignorant to appear Knowledgeable.
Ultimately, all Perspectives are uniquely of the One Truth/Reality!
So, ultimately, they are all equal!

"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be completely defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!"

It is only in an ignorant situation, one that is deliberately 'exclusional' of the rest of Reality, where any Perspective can be 'wrong/denied'.
Without the arbitrary boundaries, all unique Perspectives are equally valid!


I do think reason is superior to faith

1) You have no Knowledge of Faith, so your opinion is irrelevant.
2) Reason is conditional ego, that which blinds us to unconditional (transcendental) Love and the unconditional Virtue of 'Faith'.
I can see how you feel that what you know, your experience, is 'superior' to that of which you are ignorant.
But an intellectually fair comparison requires that you Know/experience each, which you have not, so your comparison is ignorant/irrelevant.


What exactly is reason?

'Reason' is exactly a particular variety of 'thought/ego'!
And it is NOT to be trusted or believed!


The horror of egotism is that it is motivated into existence i.e. ontologically CAUSED, by traumatic experiences committed by others against the body's neurodynamism.

'Causality' has never been (can never be) demonstrated!
It is another assumption that fails on examination!
There is 'correlation' here and there, but no 'causality'.
'Causality' is, ultimately, 'creation'; impossible!
Ego = thought!


I don't [care?] much about reality beyond what science explores.

Then you will only understand and experience the tiniest corner of Reality!
That as seen through the ego blinders.


So existence is done for...

Every moment of Universal existence exists for the 'duration' of the Universe!
Existence/a moment is only 'done for' when all existence is done for!


Since all things are inter-related,

Every moment of Universal existence exists for the 'duration' of the Universe!
Existence/a moment is only 'done for' when all existence is done for!




edit on 9-2-2017 by namelesss because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2017 @ 04:28 AM
link   
a reply to: Astrocyte

everything is consciousness and vibrations, and those two things can explain everything.
www.pbs.org...
"This idea of fields and vibrations explains how the universe works at a deep and fundamental level. These fields span all of space. Some fields can “see” other fields, while being blind to others. The photon field can interact with the fields of charged particles but cannot see gluon or neutrino fields. On the other hand, a photon can interact indirectly with the gluon field, first by making quark vibrations which then make gluon vibrations. It’s kind of like when two quarrelling siblings use a third to pass messages.

Quantum fields are really a mind-bending way of thinking. Everything—and I mean everything—is just a consequence of many infinitely-large fields vibrating. The entire universe is made of fields playing a vast, subatomic symphony. Physicsts are trying to understand the melody."

consciousness evolves through vibrations and vibrations evolve through consciousness!
thats where im at, just now...... and i didn't even know everything vibrates (even thoughts)......Until yesterday.
PS Conditioning, environment, and experiences are the main stimuli to our thinking, although it could be argued that innate archetypes direct/mould us to a path.......Or it could be Archons, who knows but it sure is fun trying to figure
this stuff out. not only is it fun but its good for you...... trying to find that mysterious something. Just dont get stuck on the first path you come to.... know what i mean


edit on 9-2-2017 by Davg80 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-2-2017 by Davg80 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2017 @ 04:49 AM
link   
a reply to: Astrocyte

@Why do You Believe what you do?

It is AN AUTONOMOUS function for 1.

None are forced to believe, but it is encourage to take some percentage of the data associated with unknown into consideration...

NAMASTE*******



posted on Feb, 9 2017 @ 05:03 AM
link   
a reply to: Astrocyte

and for me the true visionaries, have been the ones who have tried many paths and took from them all the truths,
Jung is ridiculed for his work, because he studied the occult and UFOs, the I-ching and eastern philosophies, the spirit realm, and even locked himself away for years, trying to understand the unconscious....... Freud on the other hand was lost up his own arse...... i read his biography (its short) of Da Vinci, and he came to the conclusion that DV was so great was because he was gay. A true master would use sexual energy to their advantage, internally.



posted on Feb, 9 2017 @ 07:52 AM
link   
a reply to: namelesss




No one 'chooses' what to 'believe'
I will disagree with that .People change what they believe all the time .A example is with science .Where they once believed one thing but because of new data are convinced to change what they think .The same is true with Bible studies for me .We may go into further studying a subject that we had a pre-supposition but find ourselves either modifying it or dropping it all together . We change our opinions of people where one day we loved them the next we hate them .

I used to be a old Ford guy ...I changed my mind in what I had believed .



posted on Feb, 9 2017 @ 09:23 AM
link   
a reply to: Davg80


consciousness evolves through vibrations and vibrations evolve through consciousness!
thats where im at, just now...... and i didn't even know everything vibrates (even thoughts)......Until yesterday.

You might enjoy Joseph Rael's work.



posted on Feb, 9 2017 @ 10:11 AM
link   
a reply to: Michet

wow!! thanks mate, this vid resonates with me and is so relevant to what has been spoke about in my thread, i am going to use this, thanks for this, and i continue on my path....



posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 01:50 AM
link   

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: namelesss




No one 'chooses' what to 'believe'
I will disagree with that .People change what they believe all the time .A example is with science .Where they once believed one thing but because of new data are convinced to change what they think .

Fair enough. So, what would you say that the difference is between an honest intellectual tentative acceptance, as per as you are suggesting, and an emotionally invested 'belief' that one KNOWS is 'The Truth' (tm)?
Their symptomatic behavior is well known.
'Beliefs' are only known by their symptomatic behavior.
So, it seems that the difference between a 'belief', and an honest intellectual tentative acceptance, as I am seeing it, is the symptomatic behavior of the 'belief', vs the lack thereof of the rational.
I have studied it for many years, and the symptoms are completely consistent, no matter the 'subject' of the 'belief'.
Rational thought does not exhibit these symptoms.
At the base is that a 'belief' is of 'thought/ego', so WE IDENTIFY with it, and due to the nature of the infection, it/we defend it/ourself with all and any means! 'Beliefs' are quite self-defensive, and good at it. It gets us to think that it is us is it!
All quite pathologically symptomatic!

No one ever, in the history of man, ever deliberately harmed another unless he hosted a 'belief' to defend/spread!
Look at the history of , wait, did I say 'history'?, look at religion!
Look at terrorism!


The same is true with Bible studies for me .We may go into further studying a subject that we had a pre-supposition but find ourselves either modifying it or dropping it all together . We change our opinions of people where one day we loved them the next we hate them .

We can read a passage every hour on the hour and find new Perspectives because we ARE new Perspectives every moment of existence!
Bible or anything... just looking at Boopsie? Always a different and unique Perspective!
Or a rock!
Such is the fruit of Mindfulness (thoughtlessness)! *__-


I used to be a old Ford guy ...I changed my mind in what I had believed .

So, while being a younger old Ford guy, did it get your panties all awad in the bar when some wag started dissin' old Fords?
Did it earn him a punch?
Stomach churn?
Adrenaline; fight or flight?
Use fallacies to attempt to change his mind?
Get aggressive?
End up abandoning and leaving/retreating?
These are all symptoms.
A 'belief' infection will inhibit cognitive ability (part of the self-defense of the virus/parasite), ultimately diminishing sanity as the infection grows.

On the other hand, if there were none of these symptoms, if the stranger down the bar can call a Ford a piece of crap and you just maintain conversation with the cure brunette next to you, then the odds were that it was not, actually, a 'belief'.

Out of words. *__-



new topics

top topics



 
11

log in

join