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BREAKING: Senate confirms DeVos as Education secretary Vice President Pence breaks 50-50 tie

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posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 06:39 PM
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Michigan has more going on in the past decade (10 years) that Devos had no control over.




James Hohman, the assistant director of fiscal policy for the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, says school district leaders need to help solve the problem of ever-rising pension system costs instead of just asking for more money. “Schools are getting more from state taxpayers, but have been saddled with higher retirement costs due to persistent and ongoing pension underfunding,” Hohman said. “School officials ought to become part of the solution to that problem instead of just complaining about state funding.” Hohman has written articles and studies recommending a solution, which is to close the pension system to new employees and instead offer employer contributions to 401(k)-type accounts. MPSERS, the retirement system for public school employees, has accumulated $26.5 billion in unfunded pension liabilities. This figure does not include the cost of promised post-retirement health insurance benefits. ~~~~~


Source Link even more details regarding the real issues in public education.

Apparently, even the experts were ignored. It does show that unions priorities for teachers pensions were more important than the children.




posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 06:39 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Annee

yes, and now you know why.

Our school system stinks.


So, you're homeschooling, but making judgement on public education.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 06:41 PM
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originally posted by: Hendrick99
Common Core is an absolute disgrace and a complete disaster- it is beyond shameful and ignorant for you to actually defend it with the online equivalent of a straight face.


How is teaching kids how to actually compute values correctly and accurately in their heads a disgrace and a disaster? I've watched many videos on Common Core and read several papers on it. What they're teaching should absolutely be taught. Some teachers don't do it very well though because they were never taught the correct process either... many parents have struggled with helping their kids for the same reason. That doesn't mean it's a disgrace though, it means those parents need to learn too.


originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Aazadan

If you can honestly sit there and tell me that the education level is at or is better than it was before 1979, I'd be very interested in listening.

I'd have to say, though, that standards and levels have significantly decreased, based on what I've read and experienced.


It's a tough thing to actually show because education needs have changed in that time. What I can point to though, is that college admission standards are continuing to go up, which in turn has lead to high schools that have to teach higher level material.

One thing off the top of my head that can serve to compare is SAT scores. Someone is probably going to tell me this is racist, but if you compare the scores from 1986 to now they're very similar: nces.ed.gov...

And where race enters this, you can for the most part break this list down by socioeconomic status, or atleast by how seriously people take their education by looking at the Whites, Blacks, and Asians. Whites and Asians have either broken even in scores or improved considerably. It's only the Blacks (who are disproportionately poor) that have done worse. Which again points to specific failing schools. I would go back to PISA and state, many of our states are doing quite well. For 10 years now one state (CT or MA, I forget which it was) has basically had the top schools in the world. I think that's who we should be listening to when it comes to discussions on how to fix the system. Not Republicans, Not Democrats, not Ideologues. But state officials that have proven results.


originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
What that meme doesn't tell you is the systematic indoctrination that the left have implemented to slowly and subconsciously brainwash and control, starting from infancy all the way to adulthood.

Today's society is a clear reflection of this


Do you have anything to add that's not mudpit bait? Go after the idea, not the person. Keeping in that, lets go after the left. This is another meme I see all the time, that schools are indoctrination centers for the left. Even heard another one of those stories on Hannity's show today as I listened.

My schools never indoctrinized me. That goes for the public schools I attended as well as the religious private school I went to. In college I've always had the approach that I like to criticize the professor, and write papers counter to their believes. Sometimes that's outright about religion like in my Philosophy of Religion class where I argued to a deeply religious professor that there's no God. Other times it's to liberal arts teacher that the solution to our problem is big business.

The point is, I got A's for this, most professors enjoy a good challenege to their ideas. I've never run into a radical leftist whose incapable of keeping it out of the classroom, but that applies to those on the right now. You really only see that stuff at the protest schools... and that's what you're signing up for by going to one of them.

I've been in college for 10 years now working on several programs. I have never seen indoctrination. Maybe it's out there, but it looks to me like it's a boogeyman.

I did see more of it in high school though, being a Catholic HS, our priest would lead protests on days the state was scheduled to murder someone, and that sort of thing. But even that was pretty minor.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 06:45 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Don't be an idiot.

Are you saying that people who haven't served in the military can't comment on the military?
Are you saying that vegans can't comment on meat?

I am very familiar with the school system. We took our son OUT of school because it sucked so badly.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 06:49 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Hendrick99
Common Core is an absolute disgrace and a complete disaster- it is beyond shameful and ignorant for you to actually defend it with the online equivalent of a straight face.


How is teaching kids how to actually compute values correctly and accurately in their heads a disgrace and a disaster? I've watched many videos on Common Core and read several papers on it. What they're teaching should absolutely be taught. Some teachers don't do it very well though because they were never taught the correct process either... many parents have struggled with helping their kids for the same reason. That doesn't mean it's a disgrace though, it means those parents need to learn too.



I was very anti-Common Core at first from all the negative propaganda.

I was WRONG!!!!!

Yes, I have had to educate myself. But, today I support it 100%.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 06:49 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Annee

yes, and now you know why.

Our school system stinks.


So, you're homeschooling, but making judgement on public education.


Seems to me that someone who is choosing to homeschool clearly has reasons which include a very educated judgement on the public school system.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 06:52 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Hendrick99
a reply to: Aazadan

Common Core is an absolute disgrace and a complete disaster- it is beyond shameful and ignorant for you to actually defend it with the online equivalent of a straight face.



I am a big supporter of Common Core.



Common Core failed as soon as it started.




posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

If I home school, I can't comment on public schools because I don't have my child in public schools.

If I had my child in public schools, then I still couldn't comment because if I thought it was bad, then I'd have my child out of public school.


All the while, ignoring the real problems in public schools.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 06:54 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Annee

I am very familiar with the school system. We took our son OUT of school because it sucked so badly.


My public school is great.

My kid, now 9, is high functioning Autistic.

I fought with them on some things, but they were right, and I was wrong.

The mistakes I would have made from my ignorance would have been harmful to him.

That's my experience



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 06:55 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

So, you like to challenge ideas, but you assume there is only one correct method for a child to learn math?

Sure there is only one correct answer for each problem, but sometimes, a kid understands the calculation process differently.

My nephew does his computations the old way. He is quick and able to do it very well that way, and since he has ADD, trying to force him to take the time with the patience to complete the new CC methods when he knows the answer at the outset is murder for him. So why should he be punished by losing full credit for producing the right the answer when the kid who produces the full process with the wrong answer will get partial credit?

If the process that important?



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 07:07 PM
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a reply to: Annee

In our state, they are tough on home schoolers.

so every year our child takes a state-run placement test.

Last year he "placed" at mid year, 11th grade.

He is 13.

So either our child is very smart, or the average 11th grader has the education level of a 13 year-old.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 07:11 PM
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I see a recurring theme in the DeVos criticism, or at least the criticism of vouchers and school choice:
"The kids whose parents can then send them to better schools go to the better schools and the struggling schools (and their left behind students) struggle even more."

I have to assume nobody making that statement is a parent or, if they are a parent, do ya realize that your #1 priority in all of this is getting your own children the best education you can possibly provide? My God, I see these vouchers and choice programs as opening a window to massive opportunities for my own children and, (in another 20 years) my grandchildren. Lord knows with the crushing burden of taxes, Obamacare driven insurance costs, and all the various subsidization expenses many of America's middle class and upper middle class can't afford to send their kids to private school without some program coming along. Do I give a rat's hairy ass whether my children leaving a school to chase a better education and better experience negatively impacts their former school or it's students? HELL NO I DON'T!!! My kids are my concern, their kids are their concern, never shall the twain meet so long as the conversation involves my kids coming out with a better deal.

In my opinion, good parents don't cheer socialized, marginalized, nationalized schooling for their own children. It simply doesn't make any sense to not want your own kids in the best school possible versus leaving them in some failing disasterpiece all in the name of social justice and activism geared towards community.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 07:12 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Annee

In our state, they are tough on home schoolers.

so every year our child takes a state-run placement test.

Last year he "placed" at mid year, 11th grade.

He is 13.

So either our child is very smart, or the average 11th grader has the education level of a 13 year-old.


My first grader tested 7th grade in reading.

Of course there's a scale based on averages.

There always has been. Even when I was in school in the 50s.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 07:14 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

Those same people also don't seem to realize that this is right now the same system we already have have. Those of us who can manage to pull our kids and find a way to educate them better ... do. Those who can't are trapped and have to hope they can afford to live in a more affluent suburb with a public school that will do a halfway decent job.

But even that highlights one of the problems with the system -- if you cannot afford to live in a better place, you are often trapped in a school that amounts to a juvenile detention center.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 07:16 PM
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a reply to: Annee

I don't think that's the point.

The point is that obviously the kid must be getting a decent education at home. It's either that or the test itself is crap.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 07:19 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

I don't think that's the point.

The point is that obviously the kid must be getting a decent education at home. It's either that or the test itself is crap.


Mine isn't homeschooled.

But, he did teach himself to read at age 3.

He can read anything.

Test scores are compared to a state or national average. It's always been that way.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 07:23 PM
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a reply to: Annee

My but you are being intentionally obtuse.

No matter how smart the kid is, he wouldn't be passing the test with high marks without an education. Capiche?



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 07:26 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

To be fair, our son is a typical 13 year old, but we live in the leftist mecca of the northwest. So his education ranked against the state average puts him well within the top percentile.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 07:26 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

My but you are being intentionally obtuse.

No matter how smart the kid is, he wouldn't be passing the test with high marks without an education. Capiche?


I've already stated how amazing his public school is.

Obtuse would be repetition of that fact.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 07:30 PM
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a reply to: Annee

He was in the public school at age 3 when he learned to read?




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