2017 - Fatima or Jewish Messiah?

a reply to: Mnb72

I agree. That doesn't change things. World War is a world war. Seems for now Russia abstains, while being ready all the time. We don't know for how long.

The point is, the Great Warning will come when the things are at their worst, just to prevent WW3 or better say, to postpone it for the Chastisement several months later. We can't say when the things are at their worst, obviously they will be so at the moment before WW3 starts. God and angels know that moment.

Therefore, all reports of ships movement, snap drills etc, be it in South China Sea or Eastern Mediterranean, or near Ukraine, could be the trigger. They are all nuclear armed. S-400 could be nuclear armed as well as Patriot, and could engage surface targets not only flying. Every modern ship has such missile systems, or the little outdated subsonic Tomahawks.

Going back to the first Jewish prophecy, WW3 will last 12 minutes. It will not be announced, except for the news we have already today. China warned its citizens to prepare for WW3 while Russia makes mega drills with 40 mln evacuated by civil defense. I haven't heard of it during the Cold War.

But that is for the Chastisement. I strongly believe there will be a Warning with exit option for those who want it.

originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
a reply to: 2012newstart

Ok, I'll bite. But only because I'll be nicer about it than other members.

The day after a prophecy is unfulfilled, what did we learn and what was the benefit of anticipating the said event?

That being said, there have been thousands amongst thousands of prophecies pointing to the arrival of a messiah at a specific date that have passed with no fruition. What makes this one different?

I'll revisit this thread in 2018 and hopefully you'll have some insight as to why this didn't happen.

First of all, would you please notice that I myself do not set any date. I reason about what others have set as periods and sequences. Among them, people like Benedict. If they fail, we have to make our conclusions as what is going on in the Church that hides the secret of the century.

You will come in 2018? Pardon me? So you are so little concerned about the topic, but you are so much concerned the date will fail, and of my potential responce? Well, I might die until then, haha. As Fr Amorth died, while awaiting Fatima to fulfill in 2016.

But let go back to the topic that is the important thing for me.

If Fatima 100th anniversary fails to materialize known and unknown parts of the Secrets, if we do not see any Era of Peace, any Chastisement, nothing, then the faithful Catholics and all those concerned should reexamine the core belief of modern apparitions that shaped the last two centuries. I think that won't happen. But if it does...it would mean we were not told much more than just one 3rd secret in one apparition.

Perhaps, new era is coming anyway, with new seers and new customs, to the dismay of today's traditionalists. And that might be a very good point for all of them who read here to consider.

I will await something big prophetic to happen, expected or rather unexpected. If not for Fatima then for the Jewish prophecies. I believe the time is now, after being already postponed for decades. I am not a prophet though. God has the last word.

The thread is open for Interpretations. Why not to discuss Petrus Romanus prophecy, Dan Brown, Steve Quayle, that are rather proficient in the subject, although I do not agree with their conclusions. The Catholics are kind of shy to defend their views. Those who do so, are usually ultra conservatives in some other restrictive forums. The time to put your FREE thoughts online is NOW. After the events., no one will have the time to read and answer...Or may be the left behinders will have good enough internet in deep bunkers to exchange thoughts of how wrong were those who warned? Haha, a joke. If you ask the rabbis, only one third would be physically saved, after 12 minute Gog and Magog war...

And if you ask the late Malachi Martin, ex-jesuit who had read the Third Secret, that (the war and natural disasters) do not make the Core Element of the secret that is Much More Frightening. You can listen to his interviews on Coast with Art Bell posted on youtube. He might have not known everything. But what he said is important enough for all who study Fatima.

Hope God's salvation is preeminent, also in time, than His just punishment!

a reply to: 2012newstart

If the system of Catholic prophecies centered around Fatima fail to materialize this year, after so many promises said by so many important people, leaks, from Lucia etc, then there should be a major review of the entire system of belief. Not just Fatima.

Perhaps the Christianity failed to recognize the true teaching of Jesus Christ for 1900 years or so. Perhaps, the problems are/were not just problems of sinful individuals in position and peasants who presumably lived in sin throughout their simple lives.

Will the Churches find strength to reform themselves according to the original teaching of the Master? Or new excuses and absurd rules will exchange the old ones? I don't know the answer. Neither do I know how true and which one of so many apparitions are true. I want to believe what was promised by people in the know of the 100th anniversary of Fatima will prove correct in the next months. May be not in the way most people expect it. God's ways are beyond ours.

Why Petrus Romanus is the last pope in the list of another prophecy of a saint? If there isn't Second Coming of Jesus afterwards?

Why the Jews that were so much despised throughout the Christendom era, give so persistent prophecies of end of era now, in their own perspective? They never ever gave other dates, as many Christian denominations do every next year. Perhaps all those Bible codes have their true meaning, that we are denied the knowledge of, along with so many other things we were just not told by our own elders...

I don't know how Fatima saga will evolve,a nd please do not blame the messenger! I am not even messenger but someone who analyzes. But there are certain people will will get all the blame from their own flock in first place. And not only one or two popes. Enough of promises of rosy future and civilization of love, that spread in the years around the jubilee 2000. What happened with all that, with the words of now canonized John Paul II?

The people need something more than vague promises of afterlife that no one came back to tell us how it is. I doubt things like condoms wills top someone from entering Heaven's gates... If it was only that promise, all religions promise it after all. Perhaps, somehow, the Christian tradition did not make it well to staying connected to the roots of the Bible, or to the true real words of Jesus Christ...how about all banned gospels and new ones that pop up all the time? All is forgery...to discredit a system that ruled for 1900 years...how convenient! The Christianity and Catholicism in first place have the historic chance to change themselves NOW. They will either change or fall away in history. Because Jesus didn't create the rules that govern many of the churches today. The wisest among them acknowledge it.

This is my final post if there aren't other comments. I don't intend to make monologues as in previous Fatima threads. All is said by now. It is a time to see what happens in real. This month, the next month, not on October 10th. I wouldn't wait sdo long to declare all is forgery. I still want to believe it is true...By their deeds you will know them, said Lord Jesus.

P.S. Are we going to witness a major break up in religious system, not necessarily in the everyday structure that millions of common people are connected to it in all honesty, rather in the paradigm or doctrine? How about irrefutable proof that human life is not unique in our part of the universe rather being seeded around the stars? That could be proven only after meeting with other humans who do not originate from Earth. As St Padre Pio said of such beings, who did not commit original sins in their own history of development, quoted by mgr Corrado Balducci.

How about new or old unknown verses of the Gospels who speak not only of Jesus being married, but also of Jesus who told such things to his disciples? That would certainly shake ground beneath the current obsolete paradigms, that only years ago sent the souls of unbaptized departed little kids forever in a "limbo" for committing no sin other that the original...that they never committed after all. Paradigms and doctrines are not dogmas, that should be understood by those who currently hold the key to "authentic understanding and interpretation" of the Bible.

Perhaps a major failure in Fatima-centered system of prophecies, will open the door of such a new fresh understanding of the old texts of the Bible. When we read of Ezekiel 1 wheels, we would not say fanatically: "He saw a vision of Cherubs who look like wheels!" Rather we would accept the obvious: that God's creatures on other planets are more advanced than us - spiritually and technologically, and are here to help us and fulfill God's orders and plans.

I can understand only in that way the absurd silence of Vatican on the secret of the century. Because they know very well what follows. And it is not about only the divorce, after all no one marries with the intention to divorce yes? Or about homosexuals who fill in the ranks since the time immemorial, and not only in the Roman Catholic Church but also in other religions. Because it is so. And a number of other absurd problems that are created only to distract us from the main issue.

And that is, Jesus said other things that no books could contain, said apostle John the beloved disciple. Then...pardon me, but we have to move thru that paradigm shift for the good of the Christian faith itself. The other is suicidal in less than one generation. To pretend the last pope is antichrist who wants things changed...and not to see the things have been changed soon after Jesus left planet earth, and kept changed and bloody for all centuries ... is quite too much for the advanced intellect of humanity in 21st century. We might be bad as humans, we still need the redemption of Jesus Christ because of our imperfectness and sins, but we are not that stupid to be sold medieval paradigms and to clap with hands in the expectation "God to fix the world in a blink of an eye after the Chastisement of fire". Don't laugh at it, there are millions of devote and deluded Catholics who believe that.

So don't call me anything if Fatima doesn't fulfill as expected by multitudes. It would mean you didn't read much of what I wrote, even less answering it. And I say that for those who stay in office and who read here. They have the biggest responsibility, not the internet trolls.

IF the Great Warning, Miracle and Chastisement all happen before October, followed by the Era of peace, thanks be to God! That means all major apparitions were right. Personally I expect that to be accomplished by ET contact of Angels. No seer ever said the nature of these events, in whatever major apparition you take. They all speak in vague language and keep secrets.

But if it doesn't happen by the 100th anniversary, it means something big is wrong, not just the date. There will be always people who will jump to newer and newer dates. As with the Great Trib/Rapture estimates. Already there are Catholics who envision 2029 because Our Lady told Lucia in 1929 to consecrate Russia...pardon me? It is not the century of Satan or is it? Should we be talking of a millennial of Satan then, to be more correct to the historic truth?

I would not jump to newer dates if nothing happens. For me, 2017 is far more than enough to be waited, after Neues Europa approved by then cardinal chief of congregation of doctrine of faith (or holy office) card. Ottaviani said the text should be printed although not identical with the 3rd secret. In that text it was said, in the second half of 20th century...Enough waiting with that! 2017 closes one century from the apparitions. Where are the promises that would happen within the generation of alive people, if not in Fatima then within other major apparitions? Many seers have died, as well as the people who witnessed them. To speculate further with Fatima is absurd, if it fails now. It is either true, or somehow it is being led into deception. Not that the children didn't see and hear Our Lady...but between the children of Fatima and our days there are 100 years with quite many bureaucrats who served unknown goals...

The same could be said of many other apparitions who said secrets. They will either happen, or we'd better seek other explanations of what is still secret in 21st century of free information...For me it is only one taboo, still in the religious circles but no more on internet. That is, humans are not alone, angels are humans from other planets far more advanced spiritually and as development of civilization. Also the demons btw. That is the big secret. Malachi Martin touches upon it, that the nature of the angels wouldn't be understood even by the clever ones...in his time 1997.

I hope it will happen this year. If not, don't blame me, blame those who ruined this generation by absurd teachings and rules. It will happen anyway, the new era to come. Fanatics always will repeat that God will punish the world's majority, and they will survive or only their souls will be saved. They say that today, just give an ear what they talk after Daily masses in Catholic churches. Those people will never change except for a special grace by God, that grace that they deny to the others. Although good by themselves, they tend to damn everyone who do not think like that.

If the things preserve their current course, soon the Catholic Church will be left by ultra conservatives leaded by several prominent figures who think they talk from God's name...The majority won't go after them, rather will take a more liberal course than today's. That if nothing happens with fatima anniversary. The rift is widening all the time since the election of the middle person Francis.

If the miracle indeed happens, as prophecied by not only one apparition, then we will see what that miracle will be in first place. If there are angels, what they will tell us to do, and so on...I cannot talk in the name of the angels or Virgin Mary, as some catholics apparently do today...Such a once in millenium event should be taken as a cornerstone for further generations.

But if it doesn't happen, then all I already talked about will transpire rather soon. Banned books and ideas that people payed with their lives for in Middle ages as "heretic", that today telescopes discover not dozen, not hundreds but thousands of planets in nearby star systems. Whether you have sex not according to rules and will go to hell....well "who am I to judge" said pope Francis. Good idea, not to judge anyone, in order not to be judged by God yourself

a reply to: 2012newstart

A Catholic theologian who maintains his own blog and gives his own prophecies estimations, Ron Conte, guessed the wrong date of the Great Warning to be on Good Friday 2016. Now he doesn't guess anymore, he concentrated on the development of the Church. Namely, the incoming conservative schism. To be followed by a liberal schism in his view, under the next "conservative pope".

I do not share the view that the next pope will be conservative. Pope Francis was elected after bargaining between liberals and conservatives as the acceptable figure. There won't be another acceptable figure, especially after the rhetoric surrounding the 4 rebel cardinals and the order of Malta. The conservatives went too deep into their own understanding of what the Catholic Church in 21st century should be. They practically want to revert back the time of pre-Vatican II on many issues, far not only the old mass that now they say separately from the rest of cathoolics, although still in the same church buildings.

IMO the next pope will be much more liberal and will finish what Francis started and was stopped by the conservatives. If there is a division by that time, he might not be accepted by all local churches. Perhaps he will move the Holy See away from Rome, to avoid any self fulfilling prophecy of Rome destruction. And much more important, to get out of centuries negativity that risks to ruin the Church under its own weight. Perhaps a country like Brazil or similar will be chosen, where the Catholic spirit is not the one of dusty theology and rules, rather lived Christianity with joy (and poverty as well). Much could and should be done for the multitudes of people to feel the joy of being follower of Christ, not only to write encyclicals of the joy of love but to do the joy in everyday life.

New cardinals with new numbers are a must, with age significantly below the age of 50. May be as young as the youngest priests, hundreds if not thousands. New ideas and fresh air is needed for the Spirit to move thru the oldest Church. That all, if nothing happens with Fatima this year.

If it happens though, then the best we could do is to Follow what the Lord says to the Church thru Mary, thru Angels and seers. To listen, not to determine what it must be, because we know better than the Lord...That is still a big IF that has one month for the Great Warning to happen or not to happen ( providing April 13 is the date for the Miracle), and several more months for the Chastisement to happen or not. If all fails by October, then the new era will imminently come, without those prerequisites. Whether they have been cancelled, I don't know. The new era is needed because of the people who live today, not a hundred years ago, or God forbid, more centuries ago. God speaks to the people today, and they will hear it and will answer God's call, as Fr Amorth put it speaking about the fulfillment of Fatima.