2017 - Fatima or Jewish Messiah?

Year 2017 will see the 100th anniversary of Fatima apparitions, still unfulfilled. Malachi Martin, Gabrielle Amorth, both exorhists, and ex pope Benedict, all said the fulfilment will happen before/on the anniversary.

On the other side, we have the Jewish Bible code predictions for the years 5776 (2015-16) and 5777 (2016-17) with coded words like Messiah, Nibiru, etc. One may check what rabbi Glazerson has to say about. he wasn't the only one though. Last year multiple respectfed rabbis spoke in public for the soon to come messiah.

Rabbi Judah ben Samuel’s Jubilee Prophecy www.wnd.com... envisions the messianic times to start in 1967 with the last 10th jubilee that ends 2017.

I wonder, what is it that the Vatican knows, the top politicians know and signal to population (French minister's 500 days, german minister's 10 days food storage etc), the rabbis know, be it from ancient scrolls or from astronomic observations may be? If we don't think for a while for the fearful image of the Antichrist that filled the minds of the middle ages, there are dozen of other reasons of planetary concern, including but not limited to asteroid, new planet close approach, supernova that could have already exploded but we wouldn't know before the wave hits us, solar kill shot, and so on.

All those prophets were smart people and didn't play in vain with the holy name of God. No matter what exact religion of Judeo-Christian tradition they were in. It is naive when from modern post-christian positions some of us try to negate the importance of their prophecies, and also that of ancient scrolls and other secret knowledge.

a reply to: 2012newstart


Honest question here and I'm very curious of the answer....

Isn't the Jewish Messiah

The Christian Antichrist?


The Jews believe that the Messiah is simply the anointed one who is a great politician, military leader and judge who is a regular old mortal man. This man will deliver Israel from corruption and bring them back to the old ways.

The Christians believe that the Antichrist will do pretty much the same thing except that he will be a wolf in sheep clothing. He'll promise everything and make miracles happen but in the end he will destroy....

a reply to: 2012newstart

Ok, I'll bite. But only because I'll be nicer about it than other members.

The day after a prophecy is unfulfilled, what did we learn and what was the benefit of anticipating the said event?

That being said, there have been thousands amongst thousands of prophecies pointing to the arrival of a messiah at a specific date that have passed with no fruition. What makes this one different?

I'll revisit this thread in 2018 and hopefully you'll have some insight as to why this didn't happen.

a reply to: StallionDuck

That has always been my take. From everything I have researched, the Jewish "messiah" will be a politician who seemingly has all of the "answers." Sounds like a classical description of the "anti-" Christ to me.

a reply to: StallionDuck

There is truth to what you say... Only because he will reveal himself and appear to be the messiah... However he will never truly fulfill old testament prophesy... None the less until he claims to be God in the third temple many not only Jews will see him as their messiah... he fulfils prophesy for Christians as the anti christ by making this claim to the throne of God and even claiming to be...
The stage will than be set for the return of Christ who will fulfil prophesy for both Christians and Jews... If you want a little more confusion though before any of this happens Jews will be Christians because another part of prophesy indicates jews must first accept Christ as their messiah...
While there is obviously confusion which presents itself through your question there is really no contradiction at all...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: StallionDuck

There is truth to what you say... Only because he will reveal himself and appear to be the messiah... However he will never truly fulfill old testament prophesy... None the less until he claims to be God in the third temple many not only Jews will see him as their messiah... he fulfils prophesy for Christians as the anti christ by making this claim to the throne of God and even claiming to be...
The stage will than be set for the return of Christ who will fulfil prophesy for both Christians and Jews... If you want a little more confusion though before any of this happens Jews will be Christians because another part of prophesy indicates jews must first accept Christ as their messiah...
While there is obviously confusion which presents itself through your question there is really no contradiction at all...

Thanks for the input. I understand via your response but something still kinda keeps the old eyebrow raised in curiosity.

I wonder, in this case, why Christians are given the warning of a false messiah and the Jews have none. It can be argued that the New Testament is for the Jews as well since it is believed to be written by Jews and a continuation from the OT. I get that the bible is just something that is put together for Christians based on Jewish beliefs, history and the knowledge of God as understood by the Jews. The NT is just a continuation of that history, knowledge and teachings, except that it's only believed by Christians and no other sect. Yet, it's only Christians that are told, or are given a secret... Pssst... What people believe is the Messiah will be the Anti-Christ, but we're not going to tell the Jews or the Muslims.

any thing the Virgin, M ary... the entity of the Fatima apparition on the 13th of a string of consecutive months... has to show/tell/or pass to humanity on a sacred scroll....

has to be involved or related to the Wonder in the Sky which has been ongoing since 20 November 2016 and will continue to unfold all the way up to the Cosmic 'Birth' at 23 September 2017... when the King-ly
Planet Jupiter gets 'birthed' from the lower torso of the 'Woman' Constellation Virgo who has a 12 star crown on her head and the Moon at her feet...

I link the 1917 Fatima visitations --> with the 'Wonder in the "Heavens' that takes place in Virgo for 9 months from November 2016 and climaxes in September 2017


the Fatima Visitations were a 100 years earlier as an advanced warning of the 2014-2015 blood moon Tetrad which itself preceded the 2016-2017 Virgo Constellation 'Wonder-in-the-Sky' which corresponds to the Revelation chapter 12 prophecy

originally posted by: StallionDuck

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: StallionDuck

There is truth to what you say... Only because he will reveal himself and appear to be the messiah... However he will never truly fulfill old testament prophesy... None the less until he claims to be God in the third temple many not only Jews will see him as their messiah... he fulfils prophesy for Christians as the anti christ by making this claim to the throne of God and even claiming to be...
The stage will than be set for the return of Christ who will fulfil prophesy for both Christians and Jews... If you want a little more confusion though before any of this happens Jews will be Christians because another part of prophesy indicates jews must first accept Christ as their messiah...
While there is obviously confusion which presents itself through your question there is really no contradiction at all...

Thanks for the input. I understand via your response but something still kinda keeps the old eyebrow raised in curiosity.

I wonder, in this case, why Christians are given the warning of a false messiah and the Jews have none. It can be argued that the New Testament is for the Jews as well since it is believed to be written by Jews and a continuation from the OT. I get that the bible is just something that is put together for Christians based on Jewish beliefs, history and the knowledge of God as understood by the Jews. The NT is just a continuation of that history, knowledge and teachings, except that it's only believed by Christians and no other sect. Yet, it's only Christians that are told, or are given a secret... Pssst... What people believe is the Messiah will be the Anti-Christ, but we're not going to tell the Jews or the Muslims.

The Jews were given fair warning. Their Messiah came and went. The scriptures say he is the cornerstone that was rejected by the builders. The apostles who were Jews discussed this at length. It is likely King David was even aware. He was very curious about Yeshua. The Holy Spirit told David many things
I don't know much about Fatima. I did however receive a word of guidance directly from the Holy Spirit years ago while reading Prophecy. The Living God told me that the US would one day fall by some calamity, and would appear as a burned out old building or barn, and that the smoke would go up forever. Other countries would file past, and be filled with sorrow. Not for the US, but for themselves. They would exclaim " Who will we sell our wares to now". I don't know what caused this, if it is a financial collapse or nuclear war. This was in the 80s
I also had another vision in the early 90s. I was looking far to the north, and saw a deep darkness. I was confused as to what it could be. Then all of sudden the darkness leapt and encompassed me, and went beyond me as well. I was terrified and came out of the vision, with heart palpitations, and a cold sweat.

A Jewish sage called Vilna Gaon warned in the 18th century that two acts by Russia will precede the arrival of the Messiah. And thats Russia capturing the city of Crimea and Istanbul. But regardless of what happens today, tomorrow or a thousand years from now is that fact that we all will die from disease or old age. So we should strive for our best today instead of wondering what occurs tomorrow.

a reply to: StallionDuck

Actually you have it wrong here. According to the books of Malachi and Zechariah there was supposed to be 3 or 4 chosen ones. The Lord, the 2 branches of Zechariah, and Elijah the prophet. Now the bible only accounts for 3 of them actually showing up. The Lord, one branch, and Elijah. Technically there is still one branch to go because both branches were predicted to build a Jewish temple.

So the Jewish messiah for the 21st century isn't the Antichrist. He's actually a being one step below the Lord. And normally acts as one of his two personal assistants. Also according to Revelation both of the branches show up to be the witnesses of Revelation. And the 2nd witness may also be the manchild of Revelation. Lucifer's replacement for the 1000 year reign of the saints who rules the world with an iron rod.

a reply to: StallionDuck

The Word is not and was not passed on for Christians...
Once more you are quite confused and also seek to confuse...
You see the Word of the new testament is a gift for EVERYONE...
Christians are simply those who have heard and believed...

a reply to: 2012newstart

If you are talking about anything Biblical, you can't set a date, because, until certain things take place, there is no timetable given, and we will not know the date those things will occur. It's a safe bet that, if someone does name a date, that isn't it.

108 year old Rabbi declares Yeshua is the Messiah and will be coming back soon upon his death.



It's quite likely a meteor will welcome his return, manufactured or not.

a reply to: StallionDuck

I'm not going to persuade anyone who thinks in the above terms. Neither do I want to be advocate of the antichrist, if he is to come now (and that is a big If).

However, Daniel clearly says that a political leader from outside Israel, namely from the nation that destroyed the Temple (Roman) will sign a Treaty with Israel, i.e. with the Israeli leader at that time.

Moreover, it is not clear whether that political leader is the destroyer, or someone else.

Make difference between those 2 or 3 personages. One is the aggressor the other is the victim. The Israeli leader cannot be the antichrist because he will be deceived by the antichrist.

Isaiah further calls the aggressor "the Assyrian".

Daniel 9 (NKJV)

26 And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; (Messiah here that is Jesus)

(then pause of 2000 years)

And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

(Roman empire and people)

The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

27
Then he
(N1, who is that person)
shall confirm a covenant with many

(including Israeli leader at that time N2)

for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He
(N1)
shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

And on the wing of abominations shall be one
(N3 that personage is different from N1 and N2)
who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

IMO only N3 qualifies for the Antichrist of the Revelation of John.



Does it mean the Israeli Messiah will be someone sent "in the name of the Lord", as every mass proclaims in Sanctus the words of Jesus set as precondition for His Second Coming? Why not "blessed is the Lord Jesus" but "blessed is he who comes in the NAME of the Lord"? Whether that person will be Enoch, Elijah, Melchisedek (dead sea scrolls name him too), or someone other, I don't know. The Jews believe what the prophets wrote and they do well to believe it.

Why there is such a big difference with the Christian belief, may be we should ask for that the early church fathers who coined the early rules. Not Jesus. There are centuries between them with no records but retold Gospel from generation to generation until it was written down. Let alone the doctrine.

So...you are right to have your doubts based on the mainstream understanding. That doesn't mean that is the only correct understanding.

There has always been a lot of confusion and misunderstandings about the Moshiach and the Messiah.
A lot of people will be very surprised when and if it unfolds in our life time.
But first there has to be a temple for any of it to take place. And that's the bottom line.

Shema Yisrael ( Hear O Israel )



Buck

a reply to: flatbush71,

I really want to get out of the never ending story of a coming antichrist, that shaped the entire Middle Ages without any fulfilment. If we believe Jesus that not even He knows the time (of his coming and therefore of the start of the Great Trib 7 years earlier) how could we know it?

I appreciate those approaches that see fulfilment of prophecy in more contemporary way, without calling the last events that we know will happen but that may take another thousands years.

Thus the war of Gog and Magog could happen now, as well as the messianic kingdom that will be God's kingdom that Jesus talked all His earthly ministry. That was never accomplished in history of the Christendom, now we can say with certainty looking back centuries. No matter the good intentions of some holy monarchs, it simply didn't materialize, may be because of the sins of the majority of rulers and subjects.

The War of Gog and Magog is described in prophecy as being an unusually short war. A tradition from the Vilna Gaon (a prominent 18th century Torah authority) teaches that the war of Gog and Magog will last 12 minutes. According to a 20th century interpretation, “A third of the world will die, a third will suffer from plague and a third will survive.” This 18th century prophecy of a 12-minute war was surprising, as it came several hundred years before the advent of nuclear weapons. Conventional wars necessarily last much longer and such a quick war was inconceivable at the time. Such a short war, possibly a nuclear exchange, may have been hinted at in the Bible. At eventide behold terror; and before the morning they are not. Isaiah 17:14 Read more at www.breakingisraelnews.com...

Besides the Jewish understanding, we have the contemporary Catholic prophecy (please add the protestant if you want) that say a Chastisement is to come, followed by an Era of Peace, not the End of the world.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: StallionDuck

Once more you are quite confused and also seek to confuse...

How do I seek to confuse or are confused when my response was simply offering what I understood? I'm not here to tell you what to believe. I'm here to ask a question based on what I understand, based on what I have read myself.

Is this a classic "Christian" put down where you tell me something and condemn me for asking a question because I understood something another way? How is a person to understand if he does not challenge or ask questions based upon their own understanding.

I guess my purpose for wanting to understand something is pointless here.

Thank you for the fish. I'll find my own way out and leave you to your own way.

originally posted by: StallionDuck

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: StallionDuck

There is truth to what you say... Only because he will reveal himself and appear to be the messiah... However he will never truly fulfill old testament prophesy... None the less until he claims to be God in the third temple many not only Jews will see him as their messiah... he fulfils prophesy for Christians as the anti christ by making this claim to the throne of God and even claiming to be...
The stage will than be set for the return of Christ who will fulfil prophesy for both Christians and Jews... If you want a little more confusion though before any of this happens Jews will be Christians because another part of prophesy indicates jews must first accept Christ as their messiah...
While there is obviously confusion which presents itself through your question there is really no contradiction at all...

Thanks for the input. I understand via your response but something still kinda keeps the old eyebrow raised in curiosity.

I wonder, in this case, why Christians are given the warning of a false messiah and the Jews have none. It can be argued that the New Testament is for the Jews as well since it is believed to be written by Jews and a continuation from the OT. I get that the bible is just something that is put together for Christians based on Jewish beliefs, history and the knowledge of God as understood by the Jews. The NT is just a continuation of that history, knowledge and teachings, except that it's only believed by Christians and no other sect. Yet, it's only Christians that are told, or are given a secret... Pssst... What people believe is the Messiah will be the Anti-Christ, but we're not going to tell the Jews or the Muslims.

Actually this is mentioned in the Qur'an as well, and it is believed Christ will fight him at the eastern side of Damascus near the white Minaret.

My understanding is the third temple will need to be built to trigger events, which will also fulfil the Jewish Messiah prophesy, which in turn will have someone declare to be God within the temple, when they actually aren't, and this will prompt Christ to return (Second coming) to defeat them.

It's been a while since I've read my references, so it is unclear whether whoever builds the third temple is the person who then proclaims to be God, or whether this is a different person entirely.

Fatima is knocking on the door. May 13 is 100th anniversary of the first apparition, Oct 13, of the last apparition and sun miracle. Pope emeritus Benedict said the fulfillment will happen by then. That matches with the century of Satan predicted by pope Leo 13 and newer seers.


USA and China move fast towards a major confrontation if not all out world war. We underestimate China thinking of the superiority of only two superpowers USA and Russia. However China boosted its strategic and conventional forces in the last decades, bought many advanced tech from Russia. For example China has what USA doesn't have, maneuverable ICBM warhead. Even if China cannot win a war against USA, it could turn USA back in 18th century with one or more EMP.

Is that the Chastisement, and the Jewish prophecy of a 12 minute Gog and Magog war in which 1/3 of world population will die?

If so, we'd better be ready for the other two prophesied events in Garabandal and many other places, Great Warning and Miracle, that will precede the Chastisement shortly. IMO they will include last effort by angelic forces (ET most probably) to correct humanity and give last minute chance to all those who want to be saved. Interpretations differ online. Most often you can read fundamental catholic view of that, rarely going beyond the catholic paradigm of 19th century.

originally posted by: 2012newstart
Fatima is knocking on the door. May 13 is 100th anniversary of the first apparition, Oct 13, of the last apparition and sun miracle. Pope emeritus Benedict said the fulfillment will happen by then. That matches with the century of Satan predicted by pope Leo 13 and newer seers.


USA and China move fast towards a major confrontation if not all out world war. We underestimate China thinking of the superiority of only two superpowers USA and Russia. However China boosted its strategic and conventional forces in the last decades, bought many advanced tech from Russia. For example China has what USA doesn't have, maneuverable ICBM warhead. Even if China cannot win a war against USA, it could turn USA back in 18th century with one or more EMP.

Is that the Chastisement, and the Jewish prophecy of a 12 minute Gog and Magog war in which 1/3 of world population will die?

If so, we'd better be ready for the other two prophesied events in Garabandal and many other places, Great Warning and Miracle, that will precede the Chastisement shortly. IMO they will include last effort by angelic forces (ET most probably) to correct humanity and give last minute chance to all those who want to be saved. Interpretations differ online. Most often you can read fundamental catholic view of that, rarely going beyond the catholic paradigm of 19th century.

I would look more at the conflicts in the middle east. The situation in Syria is not over, the tensions mounting with Iran, and tensions Israel is having with neighbouring countries...