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The Ongoing Saga of ACA-ObamaCare Repeal and Replace.

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posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 03:32 AM
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originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: enlightenedservant

The President is now saying that if Democrats don't include $1.5 billion for "Trump Wall" in the budget that's being put together this week, he will shut-off the ObamaCare subsidies that lower income earners receive. Democrat leaders are (so far) giving Trump "the bird" in response to his threat.

Source: www.reuters.com...

Unfortunately and Ironically, a huge number of Trump supporters-voters will not be able to afford to pay their medical bills if he makes good on this treat.

I don't think they appreciate their President using them as bargaining leverage.



It's exasperating. They'll still find a way to defend him for it then blame democrats somehow. Same as usual. Good ol' 'murican cancer will be accepted as necessary to beat them thar dems. It's ridiculous.

This man has so far achieved nothing. He keeps going back on his promises. He's the same as every other politician, but his fan base continue to defend him. Even if he does get $1.5bn of YOUR money to start the wall, it's a drop in the bucket and will be gone in no time.




posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 06:17 AM
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a reply to: fencesitter85


Not to worry. Trump has backed-off on the wall money... for now. But there is this little nugget:


The new Republican amendment, introduced Tuesday night, would allow states to waive out of Obamacare’s ban on pre-existing conditions. This means that insurers could once again, under certain circumstances, charge sick people higher premiums than healthy people.
Republican legislators liked this policy well enough to offer it in a new amendment. They do not, however, seem to like it enough to have it apply to themselves and their staff. A spokesperson for Rep. Tom MacArthur (R-N.J.) who authored this amendment confirmed this was the case: members of Congress and their staff would get the guarantee of keeping this Obamacare regulations.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 06:27 AM
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a reply to: carewemust

But do you really think the Republican controlled House of Representatives and the Republican controlled Senate would pass "Medicare of All" or anything even remotely close to it? If they were going to do that, they'd be offering it right now as a replacement for the ACA/Obamacare. Many (but not all) Democrats would even go along with that.

But let's not forget that the Republican party aggressively attacked the very idea of socialized healthcare during the healthcare debates. They even opposed a public option to the ACA/Obamacare which would've kept many of its price increases min check. I just don't see them suddenly passing "Medicare for All", especially since many of them are already trying to reduce Medicare's costs by increasing the retirement age for receiving Medicare benefits.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 08:57 AM
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God it's infuriating. The money you people spend on military might could provide an awesome national healthcare system. The world is broken.

I'm not America bashing there either - I'm UK so we're pretty damn bad. Need some jets to bomb kids in neighbouring countries? We've got just the thing!



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: fencesitter85

Exactly. It shows people's priorities & that all of the talk about "patriotism" is fake. Otherwise they'd be trying to save as many American lives as possible since high quality healthcare would help immensely towards that goal. Heart disease alone kills more than half a million Americans every year, but nope, let's spend all of our money on more wars. (facepalm)



posted on Apr, 28 2017 @ 01:36 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant


At this point in history, President Trump would have a better chance of passing some form of Government-Run healthcare, than he would a Free-Market ObamaCare replacement.

Trump would have enough Democrats AND Republicans onboard to do this, and he knows it. He's said on more than one occasion to the dysfunctional Republican House that if they won't work with him to repeal-replace, he'll work with the Democrats to get "every American covered with good healthcare".

Based on his past public statements in recent years, a Government-Run healthcare option is what the President REALLY wants.

He's just waiting for ObamaCare to finish melting down, and helping it do so where he can.



posted on Apr, 28 2017 @ 02:04 AM
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a reply to: jtma508

With most transactions, people who are at "higher risk", should pay more.

People who apply for car insurance should pay more if they have more than average car wrecks, or moving violations.

People with a poor credit rating, should pay a higher interest rate for loans.

A man age 50 who takes medication for a chronic illness, should pay more for LIFE insurance, than a man age 50 who does not take any medications.

From a pure risk/data/actuarial standpoint, someone who is, or has recently been sick, should pay more $$$ to obtain a new HEALTH insurance plan, than someone with no significant health problems currently, or recently.

BUT.. because healthcare in America cost so much, the premium difference between a healthy person, and someone who was just diagnosed with heart-disease, would need to be very large. Add to that the fact that a person diagnosed with a serious illness is probably looking at a big drop in income. Add those two things together, and it's morally and ethically WRONG to charge a sick person more for his/her health insurance.

One good thing about health insurance vs car insurance, is that if you already have a policy and get sick, the health insurance premium cannot increase, because you're sick. With car insurance, get in an accident and your premium will probably increase when the policy renews.



posted on Apr, 28 2017 @ 02:07 AM
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a reply to: carewemust



Trump would have enough Democrats AND Republicans onboard to do this, and he knows it. He's said on more than one occasion to the dysfunctional Republican House that if they won't work with him to repeal-replace, he'll work with the Democrats to get "every American covered with good healthcare".

Was this before or after his threats to withhold Obamacare related funds if Democrats don't help with the funding for his wall? Was this before or after his threats to hurt the healthcare of poor Americans if Democrats didn't help him repeal Obamacare? You can't seriously think we've already forgotten this can you? You can't threaten people, then ask for their help, then act against them, then threaten them, then ask for their help again. It doesn't work like that.

More importantly, I think you're completely wrong that Republicans would help on this. Right now, there's a bill floating around in Congress for a "Medicare For All" program. It gets introduced every new Congress but clearly has never gotten significant attention. Well this year it actually has a record number of support in both Chambers of Congress, having at least 104 cosponsors for the bill. Here's a link from Congress' official website about the bill, with the list of the 104 members of Congress who are cosponsors (HERE).

I want you to take a minute and scroll through the names of those Congressmen. Notice anything special? Not a single Republican is among the 104 cosponsors of that bill! Not one. So where are you getting this optimism from, that there will be bipartisan support for this kind of program? This isn't some hypothetical discussion; this is a bill in Congress right now that will never even be brought to the floor for a vote because literally no Congressional Republican supports it. I'm not talking hypothetical; I'm talking right now.

And for the record, no bill will ever get voted on in either Chamber of Congress unless the Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader allow them to be voted on. It's one of the perks of controlling a Chamber of Congress. So without support from the controlling political party's leaders, this bill will never get passed. (To be fair, I don't think most of these Democrats really support it either. It's easy for them to say they support it when there's no risk of having to actually vote for it. Right now, single payer is polling well so I suspect they're just cosponsoring this bill to gain political points with their base. They have to know it's dead on arrival because of the things I've already mentioned.)

Not to mention that any & every Democrat who tries to help Trump right now will definitely get primaried. Trump and his administration are still trying to push through so many things that go against our priorities that they've pretty much burned their bridges with us. Remember how hard the Tea Party primaried Republicans who tried to work with Pres Obama? We just went through 8 full years of pure opposition and non-cooperation from the Republican Party at the local, State, and federal level, yet you're expecting cooperation after a mere 3 & a half months? And that's 3 & a half months that have included strongly anti-Left measures like the Muslim travel ban, Dakota Pipeline, the Senate "nuclear option" for the Supreme Court confirmation, the confirmation of Sessions, etc.
edit on 28-4-2017 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2017 @ 09:20 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

And former President Obama echoes your disdain for how President Trump only "coddles" to Democrats when he needs them. I

This statement from Obama today lowers his stature somewhat, IMO.

""Former President Obama said at a private event Thursday that his signature healthcare legislation is more popular than President Trump, jabbing at his successor for trying to repeal his signature legislation.

Paraphrasing Obama, an attendee reportedly said the former president told the New York crowd that "The Affordable Care Act has never been more popular — and it's more popular than the current president.""

thehill.com...

After that low blow, Republican House members should feel more emboldened to bite-the-bullet, and wipe the name ObamaCare right into the history books. After voting 16 times to repeal ObamaCare in the past, now is not the time to be a gutless wonder, especially when Obama is trash-talking President Trump.



posted on Apr, 28 2017 @ 09:24 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust
After that low blow, Republican House members should feel more emboldened to bite-the-bullet, and wipe the name ObamaCare right into the history books. After voting 16 times to repeal ObamaCare in the past, now is not the time to be a gutless wonder, especially when Obama is trash-talking President Trump.

Maybe after they cancel their own gold-plated Congressional plan. Make it a little personal.



posted on Apr, 28 2017 @ 09:34 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: carewemust
After that low blow, Republican House members should feel more emboldened to bite-the-bullet, and wipe the name ObamaCare right into the history books. After voting 16 times to repeal ObamaCare in the past, now is not the time to be a gutless wonder, especially when Obama is trash-talking President Trump.

Maybe after they cancel their own gold-plated Congressional plan. Make it a little personal.


FYI...JohnnyCanuck. (You're insatiable in your demands, but thought I'd share this with you anyway. :-).

""Republican leadership has moved to cut controversial language from its healthcare bill that would exempt Congress and their staff from changes to ObamaCare.

An amendment to the House GOP's ObamaCare repeal-and-replace bill would have allowed states to seek waivers for certain ObamaCare regulations, but lawmakers and their staff would be exempt from the changes.

A new bill authored by Rep. Martha McSally (R-Ariz.) would remove the exemption. 

GOP staff and lawmakers said the exemption was originally added to comply with Senate rules but acknowledged that it was politically problematic.

"That'll be fixed. That was written in to comply with some Senate rules to make sure it's just a budget vote," said Rep. Tom MacArthur (R-N.J.), who authored the amendment.""

SOURCE: thehill.com...



posted on Apr, 29 2017 @ 12:05 AM
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a reply to: carewemust

Hey now, did you really think I wouldn't notice how you pivoted away from the current "Medicare for All" bill in Congress that has no Republican cosponsors? For better or for worse, I fully expect the Republican Party to repeal the ACA/Obamacare. But I have zero faith that they'll push through anything that resembles single payer, Medicare for All, or even a "public option". I'm basing that view not on my emotions, but on their track record of demonizing "socialized medicine" and their literal zero support for single payer right now.

So I'm still curious where your optimism is coming from on this?


After that low blow, Republican House members should feel more emboldened to bite-the-bullet, and wipe the name ObamaCare right into the history books. After voting 16 times to repeal ObamaCare in the past, now is not the time to be a gutless wonder, especially when Obama is trash-talking President Trump.

The former President made a single joke about Trump and that's a "low blow"? After all of the insults and jokes Republicans have made about Obama, that's the red line? 8 years of birther crap, "the only difference between Obama and Osama is the BS", etc and this is the final straw? It sounds like they can dish it out but can't take it.



posted on Apr, 29 2017 @ 12:30 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

There has to be...no, there WILL BE a safety-net to catch the millions who will fall off the ObamaCare tight-rope when Congress cuts it. My common sense keeps me from believing that Congress would intentionally kill American children and adults who are utilizing the Medicaid system.

As for President Obama...he has personally insulted President Trump on more than just this occasion. (The man is not fit to be President)

I don't remember Bush badmouthing President or President-elect Obama. And for that matter, President Trump has not personally insulted President Obama, to the best of my knowledge.

Even though I voted for President Obama in 2008, the longer he was in office, the less I liked him. At this point, I don't want him to have any good legacy, beyond being the first African American President.



posted on Apr, 29 2017 @ 02:29 AM
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a reply to: carewemust



There has to be...no, there WILL BE a safety-net to catch the millions who will fall off the ObamaCare tight-rope when Congress cuts it. My common sense keeps me from believing that Congress would intentionally kill American children and adults who are utilizing the Medicaid system.

These same Republicans were against making any changes at all to the previous healthcare system when even more Americans had no healthcare, insurers could kick people off their roles for pre-existing conditions, etc. And many Republican state govts refused to sign up for the Medicaid expansion part of the ACA, which would've increased the number of American children and adults who could utilize the Medicaid system. So I simply don't see where you're getting this optimism from.

If everything in the ACA was fully implemented, it would've almost achieved the goal of "universal healthcare". But "universal healthcare" simply means that everyone has healthcare; it doesn't have to be single payer or even high quality healthcare (which is why universal healthcare isn't enough). The goal was for people with jobs to keep their health insurance while poor or unemployed people get their health insurance through Medicaid like programs at the State level. Individuals and families also would've been able buy private insurance on the market, while the proposed "public option" would've been in place to keep the insurance companies in check.

The Republican Party demonized the public option as "socialized medicine" and have consistently opposed the expansion of Medicaid in the States they control. And let's not forget that when they last held Congress & the presidency under Bush, they chose to focus on the War on Terror while keeping the previous healthcare system intact. Judging by their actions when they hold power, I have no reason to believe they care about the healthcare of ordinary Americans.

As for Obama, Trump, Republican insults, etc, are you forgetting why Obama called him unfit for the Presidency? Or are we supposed to forget the "go up to random women & grab them by the p___"; "setting up special surveillance programs of American Muslims"; "Mexico's sending its rapists & criminals"; "let's bring back waterboarding and a helluva lot more"; "why can't we just use nukes if we have them?"; "that Latino judge is unfit because of racial bias"; "blow up ISIS, send in the oil companies & take the oil", etc (paraphrased because I'm not bored enough to look up each specific phrase).

Trump literally had a Twitter beef with an effin pop culture/entertainment magazine (Vanity Fair) while campaigning for the presidency. He also had a late night Twitter meltdown against a former beauty pageant contestant where he claimed she had a sex tape. This was while he was the Republican candidate for President! Not as a shock jock or as a blogger; as the literal face of the Republican Party! The guy wouldn't even take off the table the option of using nuclear weapons in Europe. Even if someone thinks like that, common sense would say you don't create unnecessary wedges between your allies, specifically when hundreds of millions of lives and countless billions of dollars are on the line.

Remember, Republicans were saying then-Senator Obama was unfit for office simply because of his age, his Muslim father & name, his short time as an elected lawmaker, and little things like his "57 States" gaffe. But Trump's supposed to get a pass for doing and saying far worse and far more extreme things?

(I must admit, I'm actually enjoying this discussion. I've grown impatient w/a lot of the other threads because they lack content & depth.)



posted on Apr, 29 2017 @ 03:01 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

I don't have the patience and mental discipline to do in-depth discussions, that you seem to conduct with ease, EnlightenedServant. Your recall, combined with the conversion of chains of thoughts, into logically flowing paragraphs is enviable.

It would be more "fun" for me if we could take one point at a time, however! It would take ME an hour to respond to your last post, LOL.

I'll just respond to the name-calling aspects. You're totally right about Candidate Trump insulting people. I started a thread just to voice my anger/disappointment at how he was trying his best to throw the race. But apparently, that appealed to a whole lot of voters. Must be the influence of modern-day movies on American culture.

Regarding the entire Healthcare/Insurance thing, President Trump needs to lay off of the social media with these important subjects, and start meeting with Congress one-on-one to tell them what he wants. Donald Trump seems to be content with being a reactionary President, instead of a proactive President. From ObamaCare to North Korea, he seems to be content to wait until disaster strikes, before taking serious concerted efforts to fix what's broken.



posted on Apr, 29 2017 @ 05:52 AM
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a reply to: carewemust

Thanks, though you may be giving me too much credit. I only seem to remember a lot of stuff because I get easily obsessed with specific topics. I'm as "dumb" with cars, pop culture, & most sports as I am "smart" with politics.

I only remember the details about the ACA because I wanted single payer & thought the Dems were both stalling and being soft. They had a majority in both chambers of Congress but barely passed anything that progressives wanted. So each crappy detail was like a small betrayal, with the ACA being horrible because it didn't go far enough & because it was modeled on Romneycare.

Republicans successfully played the opposition role by simply opposing every single thing the Dems did, hence why I remember a lot of that part. For the whole 1st Obama term I was constantly yelling "They hate you! Why do you keep trying to work with them?! If they're going to oppose you anyway, just push what your base wants!". Needless to say, I was obsessed with the constant missed opportunities. LOL

As for Trump, I thought he was trying to throw the race too. I was sure he'd get obliterated in November but yeah... Anyway, the best advice I'd give him (if I actually wanted him to succeed) is pretty much what you said. I'd tell him to drop the confrontational crap, learn the basics of how things get passed and implemented in DC, and then make amends with Congress & the judicial branch.

A President can't pass any legislation; only Congress can. So it doesn't make sense to insult and threaten the only people who have the power to pass his agenda. And even if Congress and the President agree on a new law, the judicial branch can always nullify it. So it would be in his best interests to run his potential policies by the judicial branch first to make sure they're legal. Otherwise, they'll get blocked in court.

Normally the Attorney General's office does that beforehand. This is why Bush's "enhanced interrogation", "indefinite detention", & "preemptive strike" policies weren't immediately blocked. Torture, imprisonment without cause, and initiating wars are all illegal. But Bush's legal team exploited enough loopholes & vague language to get it to go through.

(note: I only remember this because I wanted them arrested for war crimes lol. I used to get furious about the lack of justice, but then saw that they legally covered themselves extremely well. I often tell friends & family that Bush only played the fool in front of a camera. He was actually a true political genius because he was able to do all of those things while convincing people he was too incompetent to be held accountable for any of it. But it takes a lot of experience and alliances to make that approach work.)

edit on 29-4-2017 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 02:58 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant


Monday, May 1, 2017

We need a "political genius" as the Speaker of the House. I don't know if Paul Ryan is too nice for the job, or if he still holds so much animosity towards Donald Trump, that he's unwilling to fight for the President's agenda. Maybe both.

Either way, as this article says, ITS TIME FOR PAUL RYAN TO RELINQUISH HIS ROLE AS HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER.

www.foxnews.com...

It's disheartening to see VP Mike Pence up on Capital Hill doing Paul Ryan's job of whipping up votes for ObamaCare repeal-replace. President Trump asked Mike Pence to do this today, and again on Tuesday, because Paul Ryan is not firing on all cylinders.

-cwm



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

But you have to remember something, the legislative branch (Congress) is completely independent of the executive branch (the President & his administration). Paul Ryan and the other congressional leaders literally have zero obligation to do anything the President wants. They serve different constituents and ran on their won agendas.

This was the biggest problem with the creation of the ACA/Obamacare too. Even though Democrats had the presidency and both chambers of Congress, they still had vastly different views on what to do with healthcare. Many of the "Blue Dog Democrats" were against nearly all of the changes, with many voting against the ACA in the House of Representatives. And many of the more progressive Democrats almost voted against it because it didn't include many of their priorities like the public option.

I suspect that Republicans will do the same thing Democrats did. They'll likely push through a compromised bill right now because they know they won't get a chance to push through anything if they lose either chamber of Congress next year. Then they'll campaign in the 2018 elections by promising to "improve" what they started.

"There's still work to be done", "If you give us a super majority in both chambers of Congress, we'll be able to get past the fringe groups & egos", etc.
edit on 2-5-2017 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 07:09 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Given what GOP Rep Mark Sanford (South Carolina) said earlier today, and how ObamaCare was passed, even with divisions, DEMOCRATS have more INTEGRITY and DETERMINATION than REPUBLICANS.

Mark Sanford flat out admitted that Republicans LIED to all of us, when they said that they wanted to repeal ObamaCare. All the campaigning against ObamaCare, and voting against it after we elected them, was just playing the voters.. Deceiving us.

Here's his SAD Admission: www.rawstory.com...

If President Trump wants any kind of major successes as President, and the House is needed for those successes, he'd better focus on getting enough Democrats, in order to offset the Republicans that he's sure to lose. It's sad that it has to be this way, but Trump's not going to be able to make America greater again (in a significant way) without Democratic support in the House and Senate.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 07:15 PM
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The problem is that everyone who is getting something from the governmetn is all for cutting something else from the budget, but not what they get.

Since no one is willing to cut anything anywhere ... we keep racking up even more debt.

And, of course, no one is willing to take an across the board hair cut because then everyone would die and it would be mass chaos, dogs and cats living together, end of the world type stuff.

No one considers that everyone's collective personal greed will ensure that one day, instead of only having to make do with less, we'll all have to do completely without AND likely face an invasion from outside forced since our military will cease to exist too.




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