An Engineer’s Claim of Early Soviet “Flying Saucers”

wrong so wrong the flying saucer thecnology is property of the humanoids the nazis would never be smart enouh to use it

a reply to: crayzeed

"swiss con artist"
*cough*billy meyer*cough*

originally posted by: FlyingFox
Von Braun warned against a fake alien invasion.

yeah allegedly. anyone can say any number of things about whoever they want. doesnt make them true.

originally posted by: eisegesis

While sifting through the CREST database, I stumbled across an old report that I believe ATS should be reminded of. Similar information has been shared in the past, but many links are 404'd, so I resurrected few.

Lets dive in, shall we?

ENGINEER CLAIMS 'SAUCER' PLANS ARE IN SOVIET HANDS
Document Number (FOIA) / ESDN (CREST): 0000015471

PDF: Download

Below is the report’s header, which shows us that the CIA had an interest in monitoring foreign documents and radio broadcasts that specifically dealt with unconventional military aircraft.

The report involves the USSR, Germany, French Equatorial Africa, Syria and Iran. Articles are derived from both daily and thrice-weekly newspapers published in Athens, Brazzaville and Tehran, each in their respective languages (Greek, French and Persian), between March 11 and May 20, 1953.

ENGINEER CLAIMS 'SAUCER' PLANS ARE IN SOVIET HANDS; SIGHTINGS IN AFRICA, IRAN, SYRIA (Athens - May 13, 1953)

* Highlights *

- The Canadian Air Force was engaged in the construction of a “flying saucer” during the early 50s

- “Flying saucers” were proven in plans by German engineers before the end of WWII

- Planning stages began in German aircraft factories as early as 1941

- The first experimental flight of a “flying saucer” took place in Prague on February 14, 1945

- The “flying saucer” reached an altitude of 12,400 meters within 3 minutes and a top speed of 2,200 kilometers per hour

- If built in accordance with German specs, 4,000 kilometer per hour speeds could be achieved

- Obtaining specific materials for construction proved difficult, but solved by German engineers towards the end of 1945

* Highlights *

- Three experimental models were ready to be tested by the end of 1944 built according to two completely different principles of aerodynamics

- One model was shaped like a disc, 42 meters in diameter and had an interior cabin

- The other was shaped like a ring, with raised sides and a spherically shaped pilot’s cabin located in the center, but outside of the ring.

- Both models could take off vertically and land in extremely restricted areas

- “Flying Saucers" were deemed poor for civilian air travel due to the amount material necessary for their construction

- It would’ve been possible to transport up to 40 passengers at a speed of 4,000 kilometers per hour to anywhere in the world.

In corroboration with the above statements, two other articles were included in the CIA’s report that describe numerous people witnessing strange objects in the sky during the same time that these “saucers” were being developed. I suggest you read them at your leisure.

Disc Aircraft of the Third Reich

Probably the most misunderstood and problematic of all terrestrial-based disc technology lies at the heart of the German disc programs that started with the birth of the NSDAP (Nazi Party) in 1920- a full thirteen years before Adolf Hitler came to power as the leader of the Third Reich.

To fully comprehend the depth of these programs requires the knowledge that above all else the NSDAP was founded from the onset by the occult Thule (1917) and Vril (1919) Gesellschafts (Societies), and other occult groups like the DHvSS (Men of the Black Stone) that stretched back to the turn of the twentieth century with the Old German Order (a.k.a. Order of Teutons).

As such, the very first disc project built in Germany in 1922 was not even an aircraft but an inter-dimensional flight machine in disc form-the JenseitsFlugMaschine (JFM) built by Thule-Vril using secret business member funding.

When Adolf Hitler (a Thule member along with Goering, Himmler, and various other top Nazi officials) became chancellor of Germany in 1933 the eleven year occult metaphysical science of Thule-Vril became strengthened by official state backing for the continued disc development programs starting with an RFZ (RundFlugZeug), or "Round Aircraft" series of discs that utilized levitators developed by W.O. Schumann of the Technical University of Munich who worked on the mysterious JFM from 1922-24.

Related: IFO Picture Library

All pictures can be enlarged here.

There is an endless amount of information contained in the links above. I thought ATS could use a break from Trump and get lost in some amazing history regarding the strange, but sometimes explainable UFO phenomenon.

Just imagine what they're flying around in now.

Fascinating and intriguing, reinforcing what a lot have known for a long time. One of the best threads in the site. Thanks for sharing.

a reply to: Nightwalk

You know, it's really not necessary to quote an entire OP in order to say nothing more than you like it.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Nightwalk

You know, it's really not necessary to quote an entire OP in order to say nothing more than you like it.

You know, it really doesn't look good on you (generally considered a paragon of rational, unbiased thought on ATS) to take the poster to task for - what could have been a simple mistake - taking undue space up just to say they enjoyed the thread. Bad tact, Phage. :don

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

I'm so ashamed.

a reply to: Phage

No worries. I am so ashamed. I made the mistake of thinking you joined the thread to add something of import, not taking a cheap shot - I should have left it alone, but made the mistake of expecting more of you.

My bad.

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

I made the mistake of thinking you joined the thread to add something of import,

Like the post I replied to?

a reply to: Phage

I said it was "my bad" - I didn't realize you had been active in the thread before the post I was referring to.

originally posted by: mikell

Helicopters WWII ??? Documents compare the two??

Vertical envelopment was an innovation developed after the Korean war any USMC recruit knows that

What advantage would a flying saucer at the time really have anyways???
I mean like a helicopter they can't fly inverted like a jet, and what I mean by that remember in Top Gun when Maverick gave the finger? Then again because everyone was interested in aliens the saucer would be a wonderful propaganda item especially if it flew faster then aircraft of the time. Then there is also the idea I remember specifically reading in Boys Life Magazine in the 90's how to build your own hover craft using a vacuum cleaner motor, I can imagine what people did with unlimited funds and the dont give a ###K attitude to have some fun and what they built for the hell of it .


OP Neat thread

a reply to: jeep3r

I personally believe that Adamiski was a hoaxer, trying to save the world in his own way. But one hoaxer proves nothing, except that some people want to dismiss all indications of Nazi involvement with building UFOs and especially the possibility that they had contacts with ETs and help building their UFOs.

You cannot dismiss Nazi technology during WWII as some pipe dream of Hiltler's. The were also about to build an atomic bomb for heaven's sake! Nothing was good about the Nazi ideology, but the people working in scientific and warfare endeavors during that period were doing incredible things that the victors would like to forget or gloss over.

The newspaper clipping that I mentioned in an earlier post actually existing showing a saucer in the air. That, simple, solitary image all by itself, from an outside source, is an indicating fact that they had (or witnessed) a typical UFO. Your only recourse would be to call it a fake. If so, then you need to explain why they would fake something that supposedly didn't exist at the time.

I've read these stories on Nazi UFO's for years now and IMO this is just fabricated BS. My late father flew bombing missions over Germany in WW 2 and he told me the only technically advanced aircraft from that time period was Germany's Messerschmitt Me 262. However, it came out too late toward the end of WW 2 and didn't really have a significant impact.

In the end, the Me 262 had a negligible impact on the course of the war as a result of its late introduction and the consequently small numbers put in operational service.

en.wikipedia.org...

Several years before World War II, the Germans foresaw the great potential for aircraft that used the jet engine constructed by Hans Joachim Pabst von Ohain in 1936. After the successful test flights of the world's first jet aircraft—the Heinkel He 178—within a week of the Invasion of Poland to start the war, they adopted the jet engine for an advanced fighter aircraft.

en.wikipedia.org...
Germany was putting all it's effort and resources into developing a reliable jet aircraft for WW 2, so why would they dabble in unproven "UFO" technology and where would they get the research scientists and money to do so? They also were developing rocket technology during this time period. Once again, where would they get the needed money to develop a "unconventional" aircraft?

Perhaps the pinnacle of Nazi military might was the pulsejet powered V-1 guided cruise missile, and the suborbital V-2 long-range ballistic missile, three thousand of which entered space fifteen years before Sputnik 1.

skeptoid.com...
So, how did the Nazi UFO story began? All one has to do is a little research on Google to uncover the truth. It seemed to have started with stories concerning the Nazi's fascination with the occult.

Mythology has always surrounded the Nazis. Perhaps because of how incomprehensible was the Holocaust, post-war fascination with Naziism has tried to explain it away as the result of some demonic influence stemming from mysticism and occultism. The Nazi regime has always been a magnet for occult theories. This was born mainly in 1960 when two French authors wrote a fanciful work called The Morning of the Magicians in which they speculated about many mystical communities in Germany, among which was one inside pre-war Berlin called the Vril Society. The secretive Vril Society was said to be an inner circle among inner circles of various mystical, New Age, and occult orders. The book claimed the Vril Society formed the nucleus of the Nazi party. No reference to a Vril Society has been found documented prior to this book.

skeptoid.com...
Then, in early 2000, a Polish gentleman started the story on the alleged secret German project "Die Glocke."

Die Glocke (German for "The Bell") was a purported top secret Nazi scientific technological device, secret weapon, or Wunderwaffe.

www.crystalinks.com...

a Pole, called Igor Witkowski, through his slightly earlier Polish book The Truth About The Wunderwaffe (2000), It is a complete fabrication as clearly debunked on Wikipedia. "Witkowski claims to have discovered the existence of the alleged German secret project Die Glocke from transcripts of an interrogation by Polish authorities of former Nazi officer Jakob Sporrenberg. Witkowski claims to have been able to read the transcripts through the help of an unnamed Polish Intelligence officer. No primary documentation, aside from Witkowski's account, exists for the weapon. Jakob Sporrenberg served in the nazi occupation regimes in Poland and Norway. He never served in a scientific or technical capacity with the SS."

www.skepticforum.com...
In 2001, another author published a book on German "flying saucers."

Nick Cook, a respected aviation journalist for Jane's Defense Weekly looked into the claims for German flying discs in his 2001 book The Hunt for Zero Point. Cook became interested in unconventional aircraft after seeing some articles written in the 1950's that quoted respected experts of the era, like Lawrence D. Bell (whose company designed the supersonic X-1) predicting that the next major breakthrough in aviation could be anti-gravity devices. His research led him to Lusar's book and the stories of German flying saucers. Cook was perhaps one of the few aviation writers that was willing to take the "Legend" of German flying saucers seriously. While researching his book he visited many of the locations mentioned in German Secret Weapons of World War II. He also connected the stories of the German saucer designers to the work of a man named Victor Schauberger.

www.unmuseum.org...
Who was Victor (Viktor) Schauberger?

Viktor Schauberger, an Austrian forester who observed the effects of nature- especially of water, privately met Adolf Hitler in 1934 to discuss the fundamental principals of agriculture, forestry, and water engineering. While Hitler was impressed by Schauberger’s radical ideas for utilizing water power in new and dynamic ways, he was also displeased that Schauberger was not willing to participate in work for the Third Reich. Subsequently and unfortunately for Schauberger this meant that once Austria was annexed in 1938 and war broke out in 1939 the SS would come searching for him and his ideas based on his patents for an “air turbine”, “procedure for lifting liquids and gases” from 1935, and the “warm-cold” machine built for Siemens in 1937 which was, however, destroyed in an unauthorized test. In 1940, Schauberger began construction of the Repulsin(e) discoid motor in Vienna with help of the Kertl company. He patented his idea on March 4, 1940 in Austria under patent 146,141. But very soon afterwards he was reported by the Viennese Association of Engineers to the SS who placed Schauberger in a mental hospital in Mauer-Ohling. Schauberger was then forced to work with Messerschmitt on liquid vortex cooling systems and Heinkel concerning applications of water towards aircraft engines.

Viktor Schauberger also said: If water or air is rotated into a twisting form of oscillation known as ‘colloidal’, a build up of energy results, which, with immense power, can cause levitation. This form of movement is able to carry with it its own means of power generation. This principle leads logically to its application in the design of the ideal airplane or submarine... requiring almost no motive power.

discaircraft.greyfalcon.us...
So, now we have Schauberger, who in 1940 works on the Repulsin(e) discoid motor, which uses a twisting form of oscillation, to cause levitation. What about the supposed electro-magnetic-gravitic drive systems that the SS were working on in the mid 30's? SEE BELOW

a reply to: shawmanfromny

The year 1937 saw the first RFZ discs built, RFZ units 1-3 after Vril had purchased the fallow land surrounding the Arado Brandenburg aircraft plant for flight testing. The first RFZ series utilized the early Schumann levitators, but often with disastrous results. The very first disc, RFZ-1, rose very briefly only to 60 meters before losing flight control. Pilot Lothar Waiz, testing the machine at Arado Brandenburg, quickly bailed from the wobbling double-hulled disc with Ar-196 controls and attached tail unit failing to function, causing the machine to spin out of control and crash into the ground. Not to be discouraged, the RFZ-2 was built the same year and achieved a measure of success. This was a very small armed disc with two light MGs that was used in 1940 for reconnaissance over the British Isles and in the South Atlantic with a rendezvous with the German commerce raider Atlantis during the same year. The RFZ 3, 4, and 6 were all prototypes that grew larger and more powerful in each subsequent test model. They were built from 1937-1942. The brief designation of RFZ-5 was renamed Haunebu in 1939 with the RFZ-7 becoming the Vril-1 Jäger (Hunter) in 1941. These highly advanced disc aircraft were overseen by Himmler's SS - specifically, the occult “Order of the Black Sun” SS Technical Branch Unit E-IV (Entwicklungsstelle 4) which was created to explore various alternative energies. This unit was tasked with developing both the Haunebu and Vril disc designs that utilized the world's first electro-magnetic-gravitic drive systems: the Vril and Thule Triebworks (Thrustworks). These drives relied on Hans Coler's SS-adapted free energy Konverter (Magnetstromapparat) coupled to various Van De Graaf band generators and a Marconi vortex dynamo (a huge spherical tank of heated mercury at the center of each craft) to create powerful rotating electromagnetic fields that affected gravity and reduced mass.

discaircraft.greyfalcon.us...
So, the Nazi's were developing a jet aircraft program, rocket technology and UFO technology using two types of propulsion systems at about the same time? Highly unlikely. The Nazi UFO "myth" spawned a number of fake photographs and stories of Anarctica secret bases, which were manufactured to lend credibility to this ongoing hoax.

a reply to: shawmanfromny

You certainly confused me! You go through all of that of copying material and sum it up by saying that all of it is myth? I'll agree that much of it is made up by those that wish to capitalize in some fashion on the Nazi disc concept, but I must protest.

My singular account of the old newspaper clipping from an art work in the Art Institute of Chicago dated 1938--which means the image was from earlier.

Actually, I'll now reveal that image depicted two hovering disc craft very close to the camera. That situation would suggest development was beyond early prototyping. Not to mention that the image is proof of concept.

a reply to: Aliensun

Sorry, but I believe that newspaper clipping was a fake, as well as the image of the hovering disc. I posted details as to how this "myth" started and the reason why I believe it was all a hoax. Of course, you have every right to believe in Nazi UFO's and I'm entitled to offer an explanation on why I don't believe it. Here's some more information I found that makes the subject on Nazi UFO's highly suspect:

The real German flying saucers program -called V-7 Program – was originally conceived in 1938 by the German engineer Andreas Epp after he saw the first helicopter flying over the fields of the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin, Germany.

Epp suggested this project to Ernst Udet, general of the German Aviation Ministry and Udet informed Hermann Göring [Chief of the Luftwaffe, President of the Reichstag, and designated successor to Hitler]. Fascinated by the project, Göring presented it to Adolf Hitler. The “Fuhrer” however did show any interest and refused to finance it

The war was almost at its end and Hitler was desperate and wanted to introduce everything they were building and have it applied as an instrument of war, without even testing it. Half of the V-2 went down and destroyed villages in Germany and killed German citizens. However, he did not wait to solve these errors. He used everything he had, and if he would have had a disc shaped anti-gravity aircraft he would certainly have attacked the British pilots with it. But he did not have it.

www....(nolink)/nazi-ufo-propaganda-123/4497
The fact is, if they had "UFO's" , they would've used them in WW 2 to turn the tide that was ready to destroy them.
Sorry about the link not working...article was found at this site: OpenMinds UFO News and Investigations

Such propaganda. Most of the documents, diagrams and photos are completely fake and created post-War to make the Nazis appear to be super geniuses. Now, maybe the Nazis were working on a kind of high-speed, disk-enclosed helicopter design. Something that would approximate some of our current drones, but with only one main rotor. It could look like a saucer, but they were nothing like we understand normal "alien" flying saucers to be.

In any event, if the Nazis really did create some kind of superior saucer, it would have been heavily documented, because those Nazis documented everything they did in insane detail -- including sending people to the gas chamber.

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: jeep3r

I personally believe that Adamiski was a hoaxer, trying to save the world in his own way. But one hoaxer proves nothing, except that some people want to dismiss all indications of Nazi involvement with building UFOs and especially the possibility that they had contacts with ETs and help building their UFOs.

Adamski's story adds to the list of accounts that muddy the waters. One hoaxer proves nothing, but the alleged photos of Nazi discs don't prove anything either.

We know that people like Viktor Schauberger were looking into alternative technologies back in the day, but it's quite a stretch to assume that his research resulted in functional flying discs when there's nothing there to substantiate these claims.

When it comes to UFOs in general, the situation looks a bit different. There are too many credible eyewitness accounts, radar-visual and trace cases to simply dismiss the phenomenon as an illusion. UFOs are real, but the nature of the phenomenon remains elusive. It can be any number of things, including extra-terrestrial craft.

a reply to: jeep3r

Good point, and unfortunately there are tons of hoaxes in the ufo category which obfuscates any serious research.
However with the shear amount of sightings, especially from trained military personnel, I have to conclude there is something a bit fishy going on.
I might elaborate further if anyone cares to know my thoughts...

There have been tons of info sites about the Horton brothers jets and the Von Braun rocket program.
4000 km/hr at 12,400 meters altitude, whats that in LEO?