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Trump and the Coming Shocker

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posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 10:16 AM
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originally posted by: jacobe001
a reply to: Snarl



Also, the amount of welfare per person has decreased adjusting for inflation if you compare it to 20 years ago.




A necessity to accommodate for the larger number of people using it.




posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant


If I recall correctly, we're at one of the lowest taxed times since the 1930s.

Your chart only shows the top rate. This one Is a bit more detailed. In 1979, there were 16 different tax brackets (17 for filing single). By 1988, there were 2. Since then we have gradually increased the number of tax brackets back to 7.

Few people pay in the top tax bracket; most pay somewhere in the middle. Those are the people I am concerned about, from the bottom to the upper middie third. There is also an inflationary aspect to consider. Inflation effectively raises taxes in a progressive system, because effective earning decreases with increasing prices. Back in 1979, I remember paying 99 cents for a gallon of gasoline, 19 cents for a can of vegetables, $500 for a good used car, etc. People could live just fine making $5.25 an hour, better than they can today making $10.00 an hour. Yet, they are in a higher tax bracket today. It is rare for tax brackets to keep up with inflation.

There are two distinct problems with pure capitalism: the very rich and the very poor. The very rich have a distinct advantage, to the point of being able to control their own destiny (along with others' destiny) by cornering markets completely and stifling competition. The very poor can become so destitute they have no opportunity to participate in the economy. Welfare is designed to prevent the problem of the very poor, while progressive taxation and anti-trusts are intended to combat the problem of the very rich.

We stopped enforcing anti-trust, and we have reduced the spread of the progressive tax plan. Both benefit the very rich. We have also increased welfare programs to benefit the very poor. The result is that the economy has expanded uncontrolled and outstripped the safety net we established. The 'living wage' has therefore expanded well beyond our ability to cover it financially, and now untold families have no choice but to rely on the mercies of whichever government happens to be in power for their very living. We desperately need to grow the progressive tax base and reinstate anti-trust enforcement, but that will not work with multi-national corporations. They will simply move overseas and make the situation worse.

Everything Trump is doing works together. We have to give these huge businesses reason to stay in the United States, so we don't damage an already fragile jobs market. That's lower taxes and regulations and an end to corporate welfare for multi-nationals, both of which will help small business as well. At the same time, we have to reduce our labor force (illegal immigration) to give people a path off welfare. American jobs mean nothing if Americans can't do them due to illegal immigrants cornering that market. Once we have our labor force working again, we can reinstate anti-trust enforcement. Once the large mature corporations are broken up, we can start to implement a more progressive tax code again and allow business to flourish inside the United States.

Simply by doing all this, a lower true employment rate will mean labor prices rise naturally, as the market can bear them. Working conditions will also improve naturally as employers begin to have to compete for workers. Higher income for workers means more demand for goods and services, which means more manufacturing, which means more jobs, which means more income for workers... ad infinitum. The economy will spiral up instead of down, and everyone will profit, save those who already have more than they could spend in two lifetimes.

That is the goal.


There seems to be a built in contradiction here.

Not really. I'm not suggesting reducing the size of the IRS, but rather reducing the size of those agencies and programs that cost government unnecessarily. During boom times, we should only fix infrastructure that needs fixed desperately; during lean times, we fix every pothole in sight. During boom times, we reduce the workforce in entitlement agencies (there shouldn't be much need any way), and during slowdowns we increase that workforce. Tax collection never varies, because it is needed equally during both. A great deal of government is variable, and all I am saying is to use that variation effectively in order to keep the economy running smoothly.

TheRedneck



posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3


Looking back. It almost seems that business and government made a deal with each other.

Of corse they did! Business can make a small fortune by buying off politicians; politicians can make a small fortune by taking kickbacks. They just have to cover their butts to keep their jobs... an easy task when people happily blind themselves to reality in favor if partisan bickering.

TheRedneck



posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 11:25 AM
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Welfare is secure. Having a job is dangerous--you can get fired if you are late or sick.

No one every gets fired from welfare.



We are riding a dismal tide, my friends. Just look at the push-back in federal courts from two weeks of Trump trying to actually have America be a nation-in-its-own right. The left are promising "years of litigation" for two weeks of asserting America.

Their argument is that foreign people, living in foreign countries, who have never set foot in America, have "constitutional rights."

We are riding a dismal tide. 4 years of Trump, even 40 years of trump cannot keep our civilization from dying.

It is Autumn in America.

It is Autumn in the West.

Winter is coming.


edit on 6/2/2017 by redempsh because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: redempsh

I hate winter...

TheRedneck



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 01:19 AM
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The states most reliant on the government and welfare happen to be pretty much all red states that voted for Trump.. if welfare programs go Trumps own voters will mainly be the ones screwed over by it. Most liberals I know have pretty good jobs and are well educated.
edit on 7-2-2017 by idiedinatimemachine because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 05:53 AM
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a reply to: idiedinatimemachine

Maybe the welfare voters in the red states don't like being on the dole, and are voting for a hope to improve employment?

To me, the notion of people voting for their meal ticket is repulsive. I think that most people would rather have opportunity instead of a free ride. Maybe im not realistic, though.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 01:02 PM
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originally posted by: idiedinatimemachine
The states most reliant on the government and welfare happen to be pretty much all red states that voted for Trump.


Correlation is not causation.

Those red states were reliant on welfare a decade before Trump started getting political.

And the statistic that red states get more welfare is skewed by the definition of welfare and who calculates it.

Most of America's domestic military bases are in red states. How does impact how much federal money is sent to those states, does that make them "welfare dependent?" What about blue states where H1B visas mean that the transnational corporations don't have to carry unemployment insurance on their foreign workers? That is corporate welfare on a massive scale funded by taxpayers, and it benefits the states where those global companies have their operations.

Likewise populous states in the South have large immigrant populations who have no English when they arrive; the cost of portable buildings and bigger campuses is offset with federal money. So that's welfare to the red states---because they are bearing a particular cost of US immigration policy that affects those red states disproportionally.

To make a short story long, federal money is such a crazy-quilt of overlapping interests, that it is dishonest to say that the money flows in only one direction, or even in one dimension. with 43 "Main" welfare programs, there is literally know way of knowing where the government money goes.

And the bureaucrats designed it that way.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: idiedinatimemachine
The states most reliant on the government and welfare happen to be pretty much all red states that voted for Trump.. if welfare programs go Trumps own voters will mainly be the ones screwed over by it. Most liberals I know have pretty good jobs and are well educated.


Where I live it's the exact opposite. The "lefties" live in the trailer parks on perpetual welfare in the local newspaper constantly for drugs and alcohol abuse. Meanwhile the rest of us are at work everyday wondering why our tax dollars are going to support them.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 04:20 PM
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a reply to: CB328 First i would address the waste and fraud in the welfare system an estimated $ 160 billion/yr. Remove non citizens from the rolls I think Trump will have some sort of work(infrastructure) for pay structure as bill clinton did. There is so much waste in the Military - Remember when Donald Rumsfeld said there was 2.3 trillion missing from the pentagon on 9/10/01 ?




posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 07:50 PM
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I think that the Obama administration said that half of all illegal immigrants got some kind of federal aid.

Newsmax article on illeglas getting welfare says that immigrant (both legal and illegal) households recieve $103 Billion a year in welfare.




All immigrant-headed households — legal and illegal — receive an average of $6,241 in welfare, 41 percent more than the $4,431 received by a non-immigrant household on welfare, according to the analysis. The total cost is over $103 billion in welfare benefits to households headed by immigrants.



posted on Feb, 8 2017 @ 05:54 AM
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This is why we have Trump... Cruel, uneducated people.

If you think the wall is better use of tax dollars than providing food for hungry kids, congratulations, you are the problem.



posted on Feb, 8 2017 @ 10:14 AM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
Not many people in the 50s and 60s needed welfare.The jobs were plentiful. And you could afford housing, food, medical on one income. And because of modern medicine, people with disabilities live longer now.
Yes excellent point. Even in the 70's a 4 bedroom house in a good neighborhood was 32,000. Now the same house at least 259,000 based on what I've seen on the market. But I digress...this is inflation due to increased spending by the Fed. Our government is out of control and the socialist welfare state increases entitlement spending which is unsustainable. This is being done purposely to give billions to the international bankers as well as break our economy and push us into the One World Totalitarian control.



posted on Feb, 8 2017 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: LordAhriman
This is why we have Trump... Cruel, uneducated people.

If you think the wall is better use of tax dollars than providing food for hungry kids, congratulations, you are the problem.
Our government is providing food to hungry kids and support for the disabled. I know because my job is to care for these people. It pays terrible because caregivers are not considered as valuable as teachers who have nice pensions and so on. But again, there is no way for our government to take care of all the needs. The cost is staggering. It is foolish to imagine that we can keep accepting more and more refugees and take care of millions and millions of illegals and give them benefits too, because that is what the Nutty Progressives are doing. It is foolish Utopianism to think that government can run everything and take care of everyone. Centralized control doesn't work and it didn't for the Soviet Union.



posted on Feb, 8 2017 @ 12:25 PM
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a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

How does entitlement spending give billions to international bankers? Every penny of my social security and medicare is spent in my town.



posted on Feb, 23 2017 @ 11:58 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3

Learn how money is created and come back and see if you still ask that question.

Really, study it.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 04:37 AM
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a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

I don't really care. What am I going to do about it, create another system or another country? It's getting all consuming for the lower class American to provide food, medical, housing, education, having a family, property taxes, income taxes. I don't give a damn who creates it, Americans need more money just like rich people do. We are looking at each other across a great divide.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 04:52 AM
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originally posted by: Snarl
[snip]
ETA: I guess what I'm trying to say is that if we have a Welfare Program ... it should never be able to be used as a political tool.



Aren't you "using Welfare" as a political tool here in your argument?



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 09:56 AM
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Have you ever heard a corporation complaining about people on welfare?.

Think about that for a minute and try to figure out why.

...Skip it, your electricity is on and your TV works. Your fridge works and there's beer in there...

Go about your business of doing nothing.



posted on Feb, 24 2017 @ 05:44 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Snarl
[snip]
ETA: I guess what I'm trying to say is that if we have a Welfare Program ... it should never be able to be used as a political tool.



Aren't you "using Welfare" as a political tool here in your argument?

One political tool is an action that unfairly separates a person from their hard earned dollar. The other political tool is the one that forces a person to act in a way they wouldn't by 'open choice'.

I'm not a politician and I don't make rules. I have no 'political tools' in my bag-o-tricks ... just common sense.



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