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Trump and the Coming Shocker

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posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 05:24 PM
a reply to: ErrorErrorError

I would guess from the reply that you are not in the US?
If not, how would you know about our everyday life?

posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 05:36 PM
a reply to: Snarl

In the 60's, the amount of Corporate and Banking lobbyists dominating DC was very low as well.
The amount of Revolving door people between DC and the Finance Industry was really low.
Is Trump going to get rid of these people as well?

Also, the amount of welfare per person has decreased adjusting for inflation if you compare it to 20 years ago.
The welfare budget ballooned after the 2008 Wall Street Engineered crash.

People did not decide one year to become lazy and shiffless by the millions.
It happened because of policies like Trade with slave labor nations so Wall Street could get rich.

These policies have consequences.

If Trump throws out the Corporate and Finance Sector out of DC and ends trade pacts with Communists Countries we just might have a chance.

posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 05:47 PM
Prior to the 1960's, you also had government surplus rice, beans, canned meat and so on.
Corporate lobbyists brought us food stamps and Obamaphones

Just do a google search for Food Stamps and Corporate Lobbyists and prepare to be overwhelmed

posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 05:50 PM

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

3. Are they also going to be slashing corporate welfare?

The last time food stamp money was cut, the administration increased to amount to Agricultural Subsidies to make up for the loss. Welfare for Corporations is ok, but not for anyone else

posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 06:01 PM
a reply to: Snarl
yes the day that sh@@ like this is done away with the better.
anybody remember this a@@hole

look at his words,

In a follow-up email, Greenslate lamented that Fox had portrayed him as a beach bum. “I don’t feel like a bum,” he said. “I pull hot chicks, drive nice cars, dress nice and wear the most baddest jewelry in the world.”
Jason Greenslate, Food Stamp Surfer, Responds To The Haters

i wonder how he affords those nice cars, clothes and that baddest jewelry. oh that's right he buys his lobster "when it's on sale" which even then can be real expensive, using the government dime. ie yours and my tax money. and you can bet your @@ that there are millions more that do the same.

Stand tall for the beast of America.
Lay down like a naked dead body,
keep it real for the people workin' overtime,
they can't stay living off the government dime.
Stand tall for the people of America.
Stand tall for the man next door,
cuz we are free in the land of America,
we aren't goin' down like this. Come on Now!

Nico Vega - Beast

ETA: i got no problem helping people that truly need it, but as i said there are people that are doing just what this a@@hat is doing. there's not a damn thing wrong with him and he needs to,

chances are he's never gonna do as good as george did.

edit on 5-2-2017 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 07:00 PM
a reply to: tinner07

I have a nice blue collar job! I'm a union supporter too. I just would have sucked at it. I like running machinery. Plus where I live we are swamped in Welders. They get about 60 grand in my area. I would have had to relocate to make the fantastic money on top of sucking at it.

My point was the training jobs offered were like three categories and not practical for our job market. Here RN's are in demand, electricians, plumbers, medical coders, Medical assistants ect...they offered no help with any of that and I wasn't willing to remorgage the house for schooling. Not at 8% back then.

I'm totally not dissing the profession!!

posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 07:05 PM
a reply to: jacobe001

Got news for ya, food banks can still buy commodity foods from the main food bank, it's just they are so swamped with people they rely more on donations and only buy what they have too.

I needed the food bank for awhile in the early 90's and would gladly buy canned beef now or a block of commodity cheese! That food was awesome!!! Seriously the government should make it available to the public!! They'd make a killing!! I could make a can of beef last a week with 2 kids who had hollow legs.

edit on 5-2-2017 by Caver78 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 09:39 PM
a reply to: jacobe001

I can't get my mind around the fact that it is costing a Trillion dollars per year. Subtract $8T from the debt racked-up over the 0bama years ... and it wouldn't have been so bad? Hard to admit for me ... but there you have it.

posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 12:56 AM
Sounds like the theme to all in the family. " didn't neeed no welfare state, everybody pulled his weight", those were the days"

There are definitely those who milk the system and take the handouts. Yet there are those who truly need a little help from time to time to feed their children. Sadly the former is more true.

I think some would do well to be given a good dose of reality. Cut off and maybe they might try harder to learn how to budget. Most people these days don't have a clue how to budget or save for a rainy day. Why bother if you can get welfare.

As for Trump he is most likely saving this one for a later time. More protests to come. How many will sympathize though?

posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 01:36 AM
a reply to: Snarl
I would not be to sure of that. First people seem to remember these good ol days through rose tinted glasses. Sure there was a lot that was great or better about it back then, but there was a lot that wasn't and even more that was just nothing more then created by the magic of the pictocube. Remember those? Changed the whole outlook and mental frame of an entire nation even the world. In some cases made them believe things that were just not there.

But its magic has passed. And living in the past is living in a sort of fantasy. So while I agree that they got to do something about social welfare programs or more precisely those that abuse it or cheat it. Well considering I have seen both kinds, those that abuse and ride it who just need a qood and swift kick in the nutts, and those that really do need it.

And well contrary to popular believe I think that the whole welfare family while it may in part have to do with lazy do nothings, just waiting on the next check, it also has to do with the fact that. Well we cant all be doctors now can we, even if we all had the time, money, drive, and everything else required.

A society full of doctors would crumble in week as well. After all who is going to do the other actual work then? And considering that for the past few 20 years there has been and is a steady driving force to move all productivity away from here for the profit margin. Well how is anybody surprised. What is going on is merely just the direct result of things and yes even that whole nostalgic feeling that America was one day, make America great again you know.

You know what that speaks to? A great many people who were living in a bubble and had no real clue what and how things formed they way they did. But hey I get ya. Sure was a more simpler time and everything was honkey dorry, definitely better then today's in many respects, people had a sort of dreamy weird glossy thing and outlook on the future. Which in many a case, is not the case today.

Though those deplorables or welfare people are really just strictly a result of all the policies and everything that was going on in those times. To cut of welfare other then the fact that many people really do need it, well even for those that don't need it. It would be like weaning a drug addict off there favorite drug. And the bigger ones like corporate welfare boy are they going to have a withdraw if that ever happens.

If I was you I would be more concerned about these supposed deals and ways Trump is supposed to bring back jobs, you know in 4 years you may have some egregious bailouts to do and pay for that are unprecedented until yet, all the jobs may just not be worth it. Or not. Not like it would be hard to create jobs if that is what people want. Though I dont necessarily thing that fundamentally more jobs is what we need, especially concerning that with automation its only a matter of time that most jobs if not all will not be needed.

So ultimately its a complete change on a fundamental level both as a society and groups. But that is to much work, and its better to just focus on jobs for now. Less of a headache even if it is just sort of fighting the symptoms here.

But welfare reform, I doubt Trump would really want to open that bee hive more then he need to, maybe he will poke it with a stick a few times then run behind Pence to see what happens, and if he does not get stung he may just think he is the panacea to all uncurables. He would be wrong off-course, as again most things out there are merely the symptoms, and not the disease themselves. And a lifetime of fighting the symptoms achieves absolutely nothing.

Besides if we get rid of welfare that means we will have to get rid of a great mass of bureaucracy and people in government who work on such things. Its likely to create more welfare as you can clearly see. If they do that then they just may put themselves out of work. Now why would they want to do that? Government has never been in the business of putting themselves out of work, I don't think they will start now.

posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 01:49 AM

originally posted by: soulwaxer

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
1. I'd rather my tax dollars be used to help poor Americans than to help Wall Street, oil companies, defense contractors, or as foreign aid. So when they said America first, they meant "Rich Americans and American corporations first"?

2. If they completely destroyed all "welfare" programs, it would immediately hurt millions of Americans. Would they also include some massive jobs programs to offset this economic crisis? Or would those Americans simply have their safety nets slashed with no extra help?

3. Are they also going to be slashing corporate welfare? If not, then how on Earth is it a good idea to slash spending to Americans who are going through hard times, yet keep the taxpayer funded spending that goes towards already-profitable companies?

Those are very legitimate points, but my feeling is that the administration will have plans in place for alternatives to the slashed programs. It will by no way be perfect, at least not immediately, and Trump may move too fast with it, but as they say "you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs". And in the long run, most just may be thankful when looking back.


You do realize that those "broken eggs" will literally be American citizens and American households, right?

I'm not saying you meant it like this, but I've been in a lot of anti-Islam and anti-Mexico threads lately. People consistently talk about the need to protect our borders, put the safety of American lives first, etc. But what's the point in protecting our borders if we intentionally neglect the citizens living in those borders?

I haven't seen any proposals for a jobs plan except deregulation, tax cuts, and tax subsidies. How will corporate deregulation, business tax cuts, and business tax subsidies going to help citizens who already don't pay federal income taxes? Besides, the real problem isn't a lack of jobs. The problem is a lack of jobs that pay enough for the worker to not need welfare. But since the Republican Party is generally against raising the minimum wage, I don't see how this will help.
edit on 6-2-2017 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 02:05 AM

originally posted by: Snarl

Let's talk about The Coming Welfare Reforms, shall we? You know it's gonna happen.

Trump's campaign was about Making America Great Again. I don't recall any real outcry over Welfare back in the '50s. It wasn't a Democrat/Republican 'thing' back then anyway. It was a problem Bureaucrats had created. I know there are some fairly mature folks contributing to this site. Does that term Bureaucrat still stir up some hate in ya?? LOL Anyway, I digress again.

Did you know there are over 75 Welfare Programs he might decide to take a chop at? Those programs set the USA back almost a Trillion (yeah ... with a T) Dollars every stinking year ... year, after year, after year. Those are our Income Tax dollars people. Wasted on the lazy and the shiffless.

Funny how the problems in most western countries is always due to the poor, disabled old and unemployed.

Funny how corporate welfare, a whats that ????? I never heard of that before, never heard the man on the tv mention that???? .... is never a cause.

Funny how the man at the top, or on TV, never tells us that banks create money out of thin air through the establishment of credit accounts, and they never tell us the the govt can do the exact same thing using the exact same method can create all the money it needs for its own purposes.

Funny how the man at the top, or on TV, never tells us that banks can create as much or as little credit as they like and that the supply, or non supply, of credit is what causes booms and busts - think of the 1929 depression and the 2008 banking crisis are the direct consequence of bank activity.

Funny how the man at the top, or on TV, never tells us that if all countries are in debt to each other, all they have to do go into a huddle and have a quick pep talk and agree to forgive each others debt and then no country would have a debt then would they?

funny that.

edit on 6-2-2017 by Azureblue because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-2-2017 by Azureblue because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 02:23 AM

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Thanks for responding. I enjoy debating with you.

Same here.

1. That's the whole point; high taxes are not a necessity. I personally remember a time when taxes were much lower, national debt was much, much lower, regulations were less, jobs were there for anyone who wanted one, and people had enough money to live comfortably. Maybe most folks today don't remember those days, but I do. I want those days back.

Hmmm, now when were those days? If I recall correctly, we're at one of the lowest taxed times since the 1930s. Here's a nice chart w/all of the top federal income tax rates since its introduction (HERE). It's important to note that from 1936 to 1981, the federal income tax rate for the highest tax bracket was at least 70%, with it never dropping below a whopping 91% from 1951 to 1963.

And this chart shows all of the federal corporate tax rates (HERE). Corporate tax rates were far higher than they are now, starting with the decreases around Reagan's terms. For example, 1950 to 1978 corporations were being taxed between 42% and 58% on any income over $25,000 a year. Yeah, that's not a typo.

So if anything, it appears that those great economic times from back then were being funded by massive tax rates.

2. I have said this before: good, sound economic practice by the government can be hallmarked by one simple policy on infrastructure: during good economic times, government should reduce size and allow the market to control itself. During slow times (which will happen), government should take those taxes collected during good times and begin infrastructure work in earnest to inject jobs and income into the market. Welfare programs are typically based on need, and would therefore expand as needed, as well as provide a quick method to identify economic difficulties.

There seems to be a built in contradiction here. If we shrink the govt during economic booms, then how will we collect the taxes, fees, and fines that were generated during this time? No for-profit corporation is going to pay more in taxes than it has to. Even their "charitable contributions" are strategically used to reduce their tax burdens. And if they know that there aren't enough federal agents to audit them all, it would only give them less incentive to pay those taxes, fees, and fines.

Major corporations already put aside funds specifically to deal with lawsuits, settlements, and fines, because many times it's cheaper to break the law and pay the fine than to comply with the law. Unfortunately, this includes things like fraud and market rigging, like what was done during the foreclosure crisis. So if we take away the govt's ability to regulate them during these economic bubbles, I think it will only increase the risky behavior and the severity of the crashes.

There has to be a happy medium somewhere. But I simply don't trust Goldman Sachs, Monsanto, or Microsoft to willingly ignore their investors profits in order to voluntarily give more money to the govt. Even with all of the regulations and taxes that we have now, many major corporations still pay no taxes. Remember the stories like this?:

7 Corporate Giants Accused of Evading Billions in Taxes

posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 03:41 AM

Let's talk about The Coming Welfare Reforms, shall we? You know it's gonna happen

I'll hope for your sakes that he doesn't going to read and spell it the wrong way then welfare has a total different meaning.

posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 04:15 AM

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
People on welfare put every cent back into the econamy one way or another. Quite a few probably blow it on high taxed goods like Booze and Ciggarettes, So for every dollar they get, 75% goes back into the economy. It's not like they are sticking the money in an offshore tax haven.


No such thing as perpetual motion.

Gotta keep feeding it.

posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 04:49 AM
Trump seems to get it regarding the financial cycle. The best way to reduce debt: increase tax payments and diminish spending. How do you do that? create helpful economic policies so that jobs begin to become available, and then slash programs that seem superfluous and plain wasteful (low hanging fruit). How do you create helpful economic policies? Do stuff like reduce the amount of foreign workers coming into the country, place tariffs on imports to help give US manufacturing a fighting chance.

He's doing the things that i, from a businessman's perspective, think needs to be done.

Slashing welfare, though....that is a cart before the horse type of deal. If you do it without ensuring equity (i.e., that there are jobs available) then you will turn me into an enemy. Im sure there are many other compassionate souls within this silent majority you speak of.

I don't want to see the young, old, and infirm starving in the streets. That would make us a failed state.

posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 07:27 AM
a reply to: violet

Of course, we have never been a utopia. But, on the economic level for the average American, jobs made all the difference. You could find another job in a matter of hours, not months or years. That alone kept one from going homeless and hungry. Didn't need no welfare. Most americans would take a good paying job over welfare any day. The system would not be overburdened with poverty.

ETA: Looking back. It almost seems that business and government made a deal with each other.

edit on 6-2-2017 by MOMof3 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 07:55 AM
The only thing that would need to be changed to fix most of the welfare problem here is to fix the monetary system.

Welfare isn't paid by your tax dollars, and corporations love welfare more than the little people who are forced to be on it to be able to eat and keep a roof over their heads and get medical care.

Learn what the monetary system has turned into.

posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 09:02 AM

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: TonyS

5. I actually think automation can be one of the greatest advancement in the history of civilization. In theory, we can automate the production of virtually everything we need and the maintenance for most of our systems. This would free up humankind's untapped potential. Imagine having 100 million people globally working w/the latest technological breakthroughs to figure out the cure for cancers? But as long as we keep this outdated and uncivilized "work or die" mindset, we'll see automation as a threat that's taking away our livelihoods.

This is actually something I've been pondering for a while now... just how AI and automation can actually benefit society as a whole.

While I have always been adamantly opposed to the concept of a UBI (universal basic income) on principle alone, I think it could actually be 'paid for' in some fashion by automation.

How, I haven't exactly worked out yet, but I think it is possible. That said, I'm still against welfare, so not sure that just because it can be done, that it should be done.

posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 09:44 AM

originally posted by: MOMof3
Not many people in the 50s and 60s needed welfare.The jobs were plentiful. And you could afford housing, food, medical on one income. And because of modern medicine, people with disabilities live longer now.

More jobs being exactly what he has been working on even when he was president elect. As for disabled people who live longer i dont think you could try and reach any further then that and even miss the straw.

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