It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Trump and the Coming Shocker

page: 3
50
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 01:15 PM
link   
a reply to: Snarl




And, what was the partner of the Head of the Household doing? Running the household? Whipping the kids when they were bad? Checking homework before Dad got home? Preparing the evening meal so everyone could sit together at the table? Eliminating the need for daycare facilities?
I am sure that the family unit or construct is the elephant in the room and can't be over examined both to the interaction with not only community (crime) but in the context of the relationship with bushiness both small to the multinationals . Trump as well as some if not all the people surrounding him probably have their finger on this one issue ,and that gives me hope .

Gone are the days should be the new meme when who gets all the money wins .Fords successes is the perfect example of not so much a ideology but just a simple fact .Loose the family and you loose the ability to sell the new household items that will keep mom happy .Happy wife means a happy life .




posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 01:17 PM
link   
a reply to: Caver78




(unless I wanted to be a welder or home health aide)


Whats wrong with being a welder? you have something against making 100k a year? You think blue collar, skilled trades jobs are for idiots?



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 01:22 PM
link   
a reply to: TonyS

4. The crazy part w/this issue is that there are people from all demographics that rely on the social safety net. So in my mind, it shouldn't even be a left-right issue. I've even joked that a single payer universal healthcare program should be called "Patriot Care" and marketed as a patriotic defense program. And a lot of my elders remember what they called "Victory Gardens, which were family and community gardens which provided emergency food supplies during hard times (many will remember them from both World Wars).

5. I actually think automation can be one of the greatest advancement in the history of civilization. In theory, we can automate the production of virtually everything we need and the maintenance for most of our systems. This would free up humankind's untapped potential. Imagine having 100 million people globally working w/the latest technological breakthroughs to figure out the cure for cancers? But as long as we keep this outdated and uncivilized "work or die" mindset, we'll see automation as a threat that's taking away our livelihoods.



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 01:29 PM
link   

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: Snarl
like ending ObozoPhones overnight.

This is due to the Telecommunications Act of '96, not Obama. Taxpayers aren't funding it via taxes at all, the carrier companies pay into a universal service fund (if you see USF on your bill, that's what it's for)

The origin program is called Lifeline, and was a Reagan era thing. Not a 21st century one. '96 just reevaulated for the times.


Ummm....did you read your own post?

The "Carriers" aren't paying it....*we* are thru the USF fee.

Which is essentially another tax on people using cellphones.



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 01:33 PM
link   

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
But as long as we keep this outdated and uncivilized "work or die" mindset, we'll see automation as a threat that's taking away our livelihoods.

Scenes ... that resonated with people ... we might not be far off.


How's that for a welfare system?? LOL



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 01:38 PM
link   
People on welfare put every cent back into the econamy one way or another. Quite a few probably blow it on high taxed goods like Booze and Ciggarettes, So for every dollar they get, 75% goes back into the economy. It's not like they are sticking the money in an offshore tax haven.

Everyone needs to take their heads out their arses every once and a while and look at the bigger picture as to who really screws what out your tax dollars.



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 01:39 PM
link   

originally posted by: Tardacus
welfare isn`t so much about the money that is spent on it,although that is important, it`s more about the welfare culture that is created.
children grow up seeing welfare as an acceptable alternative to getting a good education and finding a job.
welfare isn`t good for the country, it isn`t good for the communities, and it isn`t good for the people who become addicted and dependent on it.


I completely agree.

Lifelong Welfare is a soul crusher. I can see periods of brief support being beneficial but that should only be administered at the local level. Welfare at the national level should be fully abolished.

Let it be up to the local community to determine who needs help and let all of the funds be generated from within this community. So instead of indiscriminate welfare killing the spirit, fully means tested standards could be created for people that receive brief assistance instead of lifelong support.

Since this would be administrated at the local level, there could be numerous systems of support at varying levels for different communities/cities/states. If you don't like the current model of assistance that your community provides, move. If you want to give a very generous helping hand, good for you but the funds will completely originate within your own community.

Welfare at the National level is pure cancer.

Then we would have multiple types of welfare systems across the nation and we could actually see the results they have.



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 01:41 PM
link   
That's a significant challenge, we are stuck between two unreasonable choices.

"Work or Die" vs "Abuse the System".

So on one hand, if we cut the $, someone nice and good will die.
On the other hand, if we keep it as is, the bad guys profit $.

There's gotta be better solutions than the crap we're thinking currently.



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 01:42 PM
link   

originally posted by: tinner07
a reply to: Caver78




(unless I wanted to be a welder or home health aide)


Whats wrong with being a welder? you have something against making 100k a year? You think blue collar, skilled trades jobs are for idiots?



I bet in another 10 years, a skilled tradesman will be more valuable than the majority of useless college degrees out there. 'Oh you have a xyz degree from abc college? Next!' People will start hiding the fact that they have that slip of paper.



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 01:43 PM
link   

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
1. I'd rather my tax dollars be used to help poor Americans than to help Wall Street, oil companies, defense contractors, or as foreign aid. So when they said America first, they meant "Rich Americans and American corporations first"?

2. If they completely destroyed all "welfare" programs, it would immediately hurt millions of Americans. Would they also include some massive jobs programs to offset this economic crisis? Or would those Americans simply have their safety nets slashed with no extra help?

3. Are they also going to be slashing corporate welfare? If not, then how on Earth is it a good idea to slash spending to Americans who are going through hard times, yet keep the taxpayer funded spending that goes towards already-profitable companies?

Those are very legitimate points, but my feeling is that the administration will have plans in place for alternatives to the slashed programs. It will by no way be perfect, at least not immediately, and Trump may move too fast with it, but as they say "you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs". And in the long run, most just may be thankful when looking back.

soulwaxer



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 01:47 PM
link   
a reply to: ClovenSky

Those are excellent suggestions.

Locally managed welfare could be more than just a blind handout.
There could be additional assistance directed at getting people off of welfare.
There could be educational assistance, including learning a trade or basic life management, and community support to get them into a paid working position.
Participation in the expanded support could be a requirement for receiving any kind of monetary support.

This would be much more easily implemented with local administration.

Then taxes for these benefits would be more localized, as needed. Even statewide would be better than national.
When there is local pressure to not increase taxes, there would be more effort to get people working to reduce taxes.
At least my taxes would be supporting those in my area.



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 01:50 PM
link   
a reply to: enlightenedservant

4. The crazy part w/this issue is that there are people from all demographics that rely on the social safety net. So in my mind, it shouldn't even be a left-right issue.

Agreed, but I am not sure that today it is even so much a left/right issue. Moderates in both camps seem relatively supportive of the current systems.

The issue that has been identified as problematic in Northern Europe is the inefficiency of current social safety net programs and I think by that they mean the inordinate cost of administering those programs along with waste and fraud. The UBI is being experimented with as a means to reduce those administrative costs.

5) But as long as we keep this outdated and uncivilized "work or die" mindset, we'll see automation as a threat that's taking away our livelihoods.

Automation is going to happen regardless. Capitalism insures they will seek the most efficient means of production. Farming is the best example of that. Look for example at what the introduction of the tractor did and "Grapes of Wrath" comes to mind. But here's the thing. Tesla builds multi-thousand dollar cars with fully automated assembly plants. In the future, who will be able to afford to buy one. Without jobs, who will be able to buy a box of Kellogs Corn flakes?

All of that will doubtless end the work or die philosophy, but I would suggest it should be replaced with a "contribute or die" philosophy. If every thing is free, no one will work. And if no one is working, no one will be able to afford to buy anything. And if no one is buying, producton will cease. (Venezuela) Quite obviously Corporations are going to have to be willing to contribute via taxation to the Government so the Government can afford to maintain the safety net. But the government needs to get smarter about administering the safety net by directly employing recipients to adminster the safety net.

Its a brave new world, but it is going to be a very tumultuous and difficult transition. And look how quickly its happening. First Uber comes along and hires people to drive ride share cars, now Uber is preparing to replace those people with self-driving cars.

With this change rate and its acceleration we need less contentious politics and to devote far more resources to inovating policy research and implementation.

edit on 5-2-2017 by TonyS because: sp



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 01:50 PM
link   
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Yes, these benefits could possibly help a local community but they help the national conglomerates a lot more. Welfare and food stamps are often called corporate welfare. Does this money stay in the community or does it go to places like Walmart?

Where are these funds taken from? Is each region where these funds are generated from, gifted with the same amount back into their local communities? I would bet that there are certain areas where the residents pay more into the system than they will ever receive and vice versa.
edit on 5-2-2017 by ClovenSky because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 01:56 PM
link   
a reply to: BlueAjah

Exactly. It is like the cancer that globalization has caused. When you centralize power, corruption soon follows. Give the states their rights back. Limit the federal government.

There could be states or cities out there with very generous benefits. Let us just see if those generous benefits increase the productivity of a certain area. If they do, then good for you. You will then have the funds to continue those benefits. If not, then you have to align your policies closer to reality. No more printing money out of thin air to corrupt the soul. Has our government ever been benevolent?



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 03:10 PM
link   
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Thanks for responding. I enjoy debating with you.


1. That's the whole point; high taxes are not a necessity. I personally remember a time when taxes were much lower, national debt was much, much lower, regulations were less, jobs were there for anyone who wanted one, and people had enough money to live comfortably. Maybe most folks today don't remember those days, but I do. I want those days back.

2. I have said this before: good, sound economic practice by the government can be hallmarked by one simple policy on infrastructure: during good economic times, government should reduce size and allow the market to control itself. During slow times (which will happen), government should take those taxes collected during good times and begin infrastructure work in earnest to inject jobs and income into the market. Welfare programs are typically based on need, and would therefore expand as needed, as well as provide a quick method to identify economic difficulties.

The problem is that we have allowed government to grow unchecked through the good times, and now there's nothing left to use when we need it. We have also ignored basic welfare indicators in favor of more easily manipulated indices.

TheRedneck



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 03:28 PM
link   
we dont need to take welfare away. supposedly there have already been studies that show a very small percentage of abuse.


in fact....forget taking welfare away....i say INCREASE it.

if Trump would cut loose Hemp growth and production across the US and federally decriminalize Cannabis our country would be so rich we wouldnt know what to do with ourselves.

with that money we could afford to give everyone a guaranteed minimum income and if its not enough for them they can go to work. Providing that basic income would take away the excuse some people have for why they go into crime. Once you guarantee they have enough to provide for their basic necessities if they still go and commit crime you throw the frickin book at em.

trump needs to take the brakes off the economy and all the various sectors that contribute to it. Logging, farming, small scale production.....there are dozens of great ideas waiting to be implemented.

oh yeah, whatever happened to Seattles "edible park" project? You see? all talk and no walk....thats what liberals do.

Trump needs to incentivize cities who receive federal money to replace most purely decorative trees and plants with edible ones for the poor. Let people take as much as they want.....who frickin cares? Get rid of crushing poverty. If it makes some people lazy oh well....people are lazy anyway.


America could be more than just great.....it could be frickin incredible.



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 03:33 PM
link   
a reply to: Soloprotocol


People on welfare put every cent back into the econamy one way or another. Quite a few probably blow it on high taxed goods like Booze and Ciggarettes, So for every dollar they get, 75% goes back into the economy. It's not like they are sticking the money in an offshore tax haven.

Indirectly, yes they are.

I would estimate more like 95+% of welfare goes back into the economy, but it stops there. Most people on welfare (not all) simply do not exercise good financial decision-making, even on a small scale. Instead, they spend their pittance on whatever presents itself until the money is gone and they wait on the next check. Most of those purchases go to big business and since big business has no reason to grow domestically, it winds up in those offshore accounts or overseas paychecks.

Trickle-down works much better if properly targeted. Forget businesses with substantial market share; forget those past a certain age; forget those with international holdings; forget those with a large present labor force. They are mature and beyond their growth stage. Point the tax cuts to new start-ups, small companies with growth potential, and entrepreneurial pursuits. That money is going back in at a high rate too, as wages, equipment, and materials. Equipment and materials have to be supplied, so that goes back into the economy as well. Less money will wind up frozen and useless after 5 transfers than with welfare after 2. And you will have stimulated competition with the big, mature businesses to force them to either grow and adapt, or die.

That was Reagan's mistake in the 80s... sound concept, but poor implementation. And it still worked a little.

TheRedneck



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 03:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: tinner07
a reply to: Caver78




(unless I wanted to be a welder or home health aide)


Whats wrong with being a welder? you have something against making 100k a year? You think blue collar, skilled trades jobs are for idiots?




How do you know Caver78?
What makes you think he/she is physically capable of this trade?

I'm not biting your head off. I'm just trying to point out that we do not know everyones current state.

I spent 20 years as a Medic and Firefighter. My back is so destroyed now from that line of work.
When the time came to quit, I could not receive my pension. I have to wait another 10 years. So a judge had to view my files, and with 7 surgeries and data to back it up..... im on SSI with Medicare. Not my first choice... but my only choice.

I have a house that I paid off and 3 dogs. I'm just getting by right now. I voted the Republican route.. but I'm an idiot if I didn't say I wasn't nervous right now.

I've seen the abuse of the system, and I don't agree with seeing damn near 3 generations of families in the same housing projects.

I'd drive a truck tomorrow if I could. But at the moment just going to the grocery store is a task.



edit on 5-2-2017 by Bigburgh because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 05:00 PM
link   

originally posted by: game over man
I have a feeling the left's argument it's only $35/year might be too low and the right's argument we spend a fortune on it is too high. I have a feeling it's a also a conspiracy that people can live off of welfare indefinitely because they are lazy. I'm betting they are not lazy people and I bet the dollar amount is set low enough so they have no choice but to find work. Both sides of politics have it wrong and the voters are wrong.


Many people on welfare have jobs at places like Wal-Mart, which depends on the welfare to pay part of the employee wages. Places like Wal-Mart are not willing to pay a living wage. So, you might say, people should get better jobs. But the point is, they have to have jobs to receive welfare in many cases.

There are a lot of programs out there to help people go to Community College and university and these programs are a good thing. There was a while where the great recession that started in 2008 where there were no jobs for college graduates. That time seems to be ending, and there are a lot of opportunities in the tech sector, for example. I do agree that there are opportunities out there that people could take.

But there are also a lot of people on disability and veterans benefits. Should we take those away? People who are disabled are not able to work, or if they are, they work part time and they go on a special program where they give half their earnings back to the state and they have a maximum of $2,000 in assets or they lose their disability. In addition, SSI disability is only around $700 plus a bit in food stamps, and this is not enough to get an apartment in many cases. Luckily, there are also programs to get government housing for people on low income like SSI. All of these programs are humanitarian and helpful for vulnerable citizens of the U.S. I don't see how someone, especially a Christian, would want to get rid of these programs.
edit on 05pmSun, 05 Feb 2017 17:06:07 -0600kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 05:21 PM
link   
United States of Corporation has spent hundreds of billions $ on wars since WW2 yet you all blame welfare programs and illegal immigrants for the sad state you are in ? How uneducated is the average American ?







 
50
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join