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Hypothetical what if Russia joined NATO under President Trump?

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posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 01:52 PM
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Remember once upon a time in a land and time far far far away Russia was part of NATO aka "The Allies" during WW2 under Stalin a guy worse than Hitler. Can you imagine if Russia under President Trump joined us Officially to fight ISIS. Every Liberal will have a heart attack and drop dead. We don't need a Nuclear deal with Russia to prevent them from getting Nukes because they already have them. And Iran has been shouting there famous catchphrases "Death to Russia". Russia borders Iran you do the math. Not to mention America has already lost the war in Syria due to Obama's weak leadership drawing the Red Line and then by backing off making Russia take control of the situation. We Kick Turkey out and let Russia join in it's place. Turkey had a Military coup to kick its democratically elected leader out and them shooting down Russian jets is going to start WW3.




posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: Stevemagegod
The coalition that fought World War2 was "the United Nations", not NATO. NATO was specifically formed against the Communist threat.
If the Russians were allowed to join either NATO or the EU, they would be in control of Europe before you could say "reverse take-over". Better idea, allowing the Chinese into NATO. We need the Nixon approach.



edit on 3-2-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

The coalition that fought in WW2 were the Allies and axis.
The United Nations did not exist yet. The League of Nations had failed.

Once Russia can accept a subservient role to the US they can join. Once the Chinese get hungry and want Siberia expect Russia to pivot.



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: jellyrev
The Organisation was post-war, but the name "United Nations" was deliberately adopted by Churchill and Roosevelt in one of their mid-war meetings. Give me a couple of minutes, and I could check which one.
Meanwhile, I re-discovered earlier today (among the souvenirs of my father) a booklet which was given to British troops as they were about to be landed in Normandy in 1944. It was to guide them in their behaviour towards French civilians.
There is a list of "Do's" and "Don'ts". One of the Don'ts is;
"Don't get drawn into discussion about the comparative merits and successes of the United Nations".

P.S. December 1941, when Churchil visited the White House.


edit on 3-2-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: Stevemagegod

well then maybe NATO can get all that money from Russia instead of the U.S.. sounds good to me.



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 02:19 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

It was at a meeting in 1941 that the term "United Nations" was first officially used, though it was used simply to refer to the larger group of allied countries. The major Allied Powers generally referred to themselves as just that: the Allied Powers.

United Nations link

@ OP - If Russia were to join NATO then NATO would be even more worthless than it already is. End of story.



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 02:37 PM
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It would never happen. Russia was actually offered membership back when NATO and them were on friendly terms. They demanded special privileges that not even the US has so the offer was rescinded. I can only imagine what it would take for Russia to join NATO now.



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: Stevemagegod
Remember once upon a time in a land and time far far far away Russia was part of NATO aka "The Allies" during WW2 under Stalin a guy worse than Hitler. Can you imagine if Russia under President Trump joined us Officially to fight ISIS. Every Liberal will have a heart attack and drop dead. We don't need a Nuclear deal with Russia to prevent them from getting Nukes because they already have them. And Iran has been shouting there famous catchphrases "Death to Russia". Russia borders Iran you do the math. Not to mention America has already lost the war in Syria due to Obama's weak leadership drawing the Red Line and then by backing off making Russia take control of the situation. We Kick Turkey out and let Russia join in it's place. Turkey had a Military coup to kick its democratically elected leader out and them shooting down Russian jets is going to start WW3.



Stalin was a very bad man indeed but worse then Hitler come on, seriously.

Let's have a look at the two guy's, Stalin was a paranoid lunatic whom was an idealist and then a tyrant, he murdered million's to impose his belief's and yes ethnic group's were wiped out in those purges BUT that was not his goal so once he had total power and no more imaginary or real dissidents then at least hypothetically the killing would have stopped or at least slowed.

Hitler on the other hand wanted to completely eradicate entire races of people based solely on racial ideology such as the Slavic people's which includes all pole's, all Russian's, all Ukrainian's (note how the Ukrainian's hate the Russian's more in spite of the fact the German's were planning to eventually dispose of them), all Yugoslavians' and on and on and on.

So factual statement despite the numbers killed Hitler was simply Evil itself and by far and a way's the worse of the two men, Mao and Stalin despite the fact they both deserve to burn in hell are simply not in the same league of evil as Hitler, they are still evil and they still only were able to do what they did through the complicity of those that carried out there orders but Hitler and his Ideology would mesh perfectly with the Florida Guide Stone's, he wanted to turn Poland into a hunting reserve, re create extinct ice age wild cattle.

What is a pure German any idea's, his policy's would eventually have turned upon those deemed non Germanic in the German population as well hence the enslavement of beautiful Blonde woman snatched from other European country's that matched the Nazi ideology and stereotype of what a German Aryan should look like and very few of them were of Slavic origin if any at all, these girl's were then raped or forced to have the children of selected SS officers and other high ranking NAZI's in the Lebensborn program so the German's themselves were a stop gap, an inferior group destined to be removed in favour of this NEW master race.
These were going to be the new elite and the Lesser German's would have been the workers, the servant class and in time been sterilized out of existence so that the breeding program's offspring would replace them.
www.spiegel.de...

Funny I don't actually see a similar plan in either Stalin's Russia or China under Mao (the Chinese have sterilized the bulk of the Tibetan's and other ethnic group's in some cases so they are closer than Stalin though to this level of cruel evil).

So what I am saying is that it is a simple fact that on that one point you really need to get your fact's straightened out, perhaps YOU hate Stalin more than Hitler which is a sentiment I can't share being part Jewish and having a pure hatred for Hitler but factually speaking Hitler was by far the worse and most evil of these men.


Right now that is out of the way, even hypothetically it is not going to happen, Russia is Russian centric and always will be so they place there interests first, cooperation come's at a price with them but an alliance is not so impossible, Russia was however never part of NATO which was created to counter the threat of the soviet union which after the second world war had the largest war machine in the world and posed an immediate threat to Western Europe and of course US interests in the Atlantic.

However if the correct balance between price of agreement and agreement can be reached the Russians to have a lot to offer, there arable land is so great it could feed the whole world several time's over if it was ever cultivated and there resources are vast, even vaster than the US has access to, they are also an entire trading block in and of themselves though there economy still need's to be modernised and that mean's there population need to become wealthier to make there economy even more enticing as a trade partner but of course all that would mean that they would have to play fair which so far they have failed to do predictably of course with the Russian mafia being so powerful, ever hear of an honest gangster?.

edit on 3-2-2017 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 02:56 PM
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Hypothetical what if Russia joined NATO under President Trump?

That actually defeats the purpose of NATO.

LOL.

If Russia is a 'friend'.

Absolutely no need for NATO.



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767




Let's have a look at the two guy's, Stalin was a paranoid lunatic whom was an idealist and then a tyrant, he murdered million's to impose his belief's and yes ethnic group's were wiped out in those purges BUT that was not his goal so once he had total power the killing would have stopped or at least slowed.


Stalin is arguably worse. Stalin had death quotas for regions, which is even worse than picking a group. That is killing to simply kill and inflict terror. it was simply to terrorize.

Most of Hitler's killing does not occur until wartime. Stalin had been ethnic cleansing before hitler in far greater numbers in peacetime.
edit on 3-2-2017 by jellyrev because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
It would never happen. Russia was actually offered membership back when NATO and them were on friendly terms. They demanded special privileges that not even the US has so the offer was rescinded. I can only imagine what it would take for Russia to join NATO now.


Bromance with Trump?



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: jellyrev

HE was evil but really check your fact's, Hitler was going to accelerate his racial purges if he had won the war, the death camp's for the Jew's and other's were only the prototypes and once they were done away with the concept them having been proven the Slavic people's would of course have been shipped off to these site's, those they allowed to survive would only have been for slave workers which Hitler had promised the German's along with a utopian society were THEY would not have to work in the horrible and menial job's.

Today I have seen again and again revisionist historian's trying to down play Hitler and you know what they go hand in hand with the Holocaust deniers most of the time.

Most estimate's of Stalin's dead also include those killed in the second world war which obviously is not correct, at least 65 million died in the second world war and that by the way was a severely conservative estimate, the real numbers the NAZI's actually killed are unknown but even the death camp's may have accounted for between 1.5 to 2 time's the official estimate given at the Nuremburg war crime's trial's, one former commandant of Auschwitz for example gave a personal estimate of the number of people killed while HE was in charge of 2.5 million while the later official estimate revised the normally meticulous German's figure down extremely, in part with so many record's lost and entire community's totally eradicated is that really surprising, and he by the way was only ONE of the commandant's of only that camp.

Now there is an important fact that is often overlooked.

Before the German's turned on there erstwhile Soviet allies (non aggression pact and mutual alliance on several matters) which whom they had invaded Poland and at least technically of course before Germany launched operation Barbarossa against them we also were therefore at war with (though I don't think any shot's were fired against Soviet assets but then again would we even know as history would have conveniently forgotten that in favour of them as our war time allies against the NAZI's after they were forced to switch side's), in the mid and late 1930s NAZI observers were actually allowed with the permission of the Soviet's to watch how the Soviets disposed of there own dissident's, mass grave's in forests were the dissident's were lined up and machine gunned into the trenches they had been forced to dig by the Soviet's etc and they brought this method back to Germany.

Of course the German's were concerned with the economics of wasting so many bullet's so experimented with other methods of mass murder, there own gulags were the foundation of the NAZI concentration camp's etc and the first gas chambers used truck's that would drive around with there exhaust piped back into the rear compartment were the human guinea pig's had been placed to be gassed.

You know in the death camp's the people would feel there lung's burning as the gas filled the chambers and would in desperation climb on top of the other dying trying to reach the clear air near the ceiling in vain, when the NAZI's would send the cappo's in to remove the other body's they would find them in a pyramid of dead.

They were both evil simple as that but Hitler had the worse intent and was therefore the more evil.



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

I always enjoy reading your your posts. You mention evil. I posted this chart in another thread a while back. Its an expert psychiatric assessment of psychopathy in leaders. Obviously traits and actions are two different issues. Sadly both Stalin and Mao are not on the chart (the top 20%)



Its quite interesting that Trump has higher score than Hitler.

Sorry OP, slightly off topic.


edit on 3-2-2017 by Morrad because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
If the Russians were allowed to join either NATO or the EU, they would be in control of Europe before you could say "reverse take-over".


No they would not.

Russians are poor by European standards. They would be the fifth largest economy in the EU, smaller than Italy, but slightly larger than Spain. Anyway, Russia would need to make massive changes to the government, press freedoms, reduction of corruption, judiciary, democracy etc... The collective militaries of the EU outspend and are bigger than Russia. All Russia has are some big nukes.

Also note that Russia was allied to Nazi Germany for the first two years of WW2 and invaded Poland, the Baltic States, Finland etc. WW2 saw them as unnatural allies to the Western democracies. As soon as WW2 ended they reverted to type and invaded / occupied the rest of Eastern Europe.


originally posted by: Morrad
Its quite interesting that Trump has higher score than Hitler.


Pointless chart. Where is Stalin and Mao? What about Qin Shi Huang and Caligula, or Wu Zetian, Pol Pot, Genghis Khan, Tamerlane etc. ? Ah, I see, just something contrived to make Trump look as bad as Hitler. Yes def off topic and, as I said pointless.
edit on 3/2/2017 by paraphi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 03:56 PM
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a reply to: paraphi
Your point is that they are beatable as outright enemies.
But if they entered the EU in a friendly way, they would dominate any half-way democratic process by sheer size of population.
The object-lesson is to be found in the Eurovision Song Contest, and the way it got dominated for a while by the voting power of Russia and its former satellites. That's how a Russian take-over would work. Nice and friendly. They would even sell us lots of their oil and gas, so that we could come to depend on it.




edit on 3-2-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 05:59 PM
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a reply to: paraphi

In hindsight you are right about the other individuals although it was posted in Scientific American, a study on psychopaths and presidents. You need to pay to see the remainder of the chart. The Trump comment was an off the cuff remark. I wouldn't read too much into it unless of course you are sensitive little soul.

I don't need you to reaffirm what I have already said to the OP thanks but go ahead if its beneficial to you


Apologies OP for the detraction. An interesting comment on Quora regarding a similar question.


An actual Russian accession to NATO would probably require that China begin making expansionist moves in East Asia. One thing that many people don't realize is that China has a (currently) dormant claim on huge areas of Siberia, which Russia took from the Qing Empire during the 18th and 19th centuries. China has not raised the issue in many years, but a change in policy by China or a diplomatic falling-out between China and Russia could bring that back to light at any time.


Not sure if we are allowed to provide links to Quora.


edit on 3-2-2017 by Morrad because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2017 @ 07:12 PM
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a reply to: Stevemagegod

That won't happen from either side until it has been fully determined that China or the Muslin world is the true enemy of both.

Everybody needs at least a potential enemy lurking in the shadows. How else can you justify defense expenditures?



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