I've been hearing some chatter that a MIG could take on a F-16. Im not sure what type of MIG. I just want to know if anybody could take on a JSF since its new and all. Im pretty sure the russians have some hush-hush thing they're doing to counter the JSF. I also wouldnt be surprised if they were giving some of the tech to the Chinese.

Nope.

One word: VTOL. Nuff said.

VTOL is fine and dandy but its not gonna help much in a dogfight

Originally posted by LeftBehind
VTOL is fine and dandy but its not gonna help much in a dogfight

Thats what the F22 is for my friend. The JSF will have clear skies to bomb anything and anwhere it pleases. It will fly free from any Russian or Chinese threats. It will look and see the scattered wreckage of all the Mig 1.42's on the ground below as it cruises to its taget. Of course, that assumes that the Mig 1.42 actually gets in the air and flies some day in production.

Maybe you should try comparing another aircraft as close in development as the JSF? Not just something in design stage. If thats the case I can draw something up in Windows Paint in 15 minutes that will wipe out anything!

Originally posted by LeftBehind
VTOL is fine and dandy but its not gonna help much in a dogfight

You can do a lot more sorties though...

I dunno, a JSF has stealth advantage but against a mig?
Out in the sea as well....since thats where the VTOL ones are going (remember 3 types...)
Remeber VTOL is good but as it was proven in the falklands VTOL only helps....

Actually VTOL is very usefull in a dogfight!

Benedict asked if there was a russian plane that "could" take on the JSF, I wasnt trying to start a pissing contest, just trying to answer his question. Now obviously the US will take out any other air force in the world, so jingoistic replies saying how wrong I am are ridiculous.

Sorry about the price mistake, my source was a different site on that.

Now is there a better Russian fighter out there, or is the Mig 1.42 the closest anyone has to the JSF?

on a side note, is VTOL necessary for an air-superiority fighter?

Originally posted by benedict arnold
I've been hearing some chatter that a MIG could take on a F-16. Im not sure what type of MIG. I just want to know if anybody could take on a JSF since its new and all. Im pretty sure the russians have some hush-hush thing they're doing to counter the JSF. I also wouldnt be surprised if they were giving some of the tech to the Chinese.

What plane? Su-27, MiG-29, MiG-31 or Su-30? Surely not. MiG-31 is not even in production.
"Are there any russian planes which could outdo the JSF?" - I think this would better fit the Aircraft Projects.

b]Yes there is. It is the MiG 1.42. Cheaper than the JSF it is still too expensive for the Russian Military, so look for India or China to start buying them.

No doubt the Russia's Economic condition has been bad after the fall of Soviet Union and has resulted to decrease in defense spending but still it has the second highest Defense spending per annum after USA....Though today's Russian Defense Budget is significantly small when compared to that of USA BUT nether Indian nor Chinese Defense budget comes close to it(just have a google search).......actually Russia has inherited a lot of weapons from the Soviet Union(enough to destroy the world 8 times)and most of its defense budget goes on maintenance of those weapons.....basically they don’t need new weapons because they know very well that USA will never attack Russia (coz if it happens USA will surely win the war BUT at the cost of its own destruction ) while they don’t have any other potential enemy other than USA(Chinese defense system is solely dependent on Russian Tech).

Moreover its not true that Russia is not buying new aircrafts...there is a law in Russia which prevents her to sell weapons unless it has its adequate amount of the same in its military .....the fact is Russia doesn’t declare how much and what weapons it has unlike India and China(it doesn’t need to coz world knows the might of today's "weak" Russia -has enough weapons to destroy the world 8 times...)

there is an Artillery museum in St Petersburg which displays weapons to common public there u can find T90s and other weapons that are today sold to India and China so just think what kind of weapons the Russian army may have when it displays T90s in its museums

If you ever go near a Russian Military base in Siberia you will find fighters which have never been in public media

All I want to say is though Russian Defense has decreased a lot compared to soviet times .....Indian and Chinese Defense budgets still form a fraction of this decreased budget.....if Microsoft looses its shares Bill Gates will still remain richer than a five star hotel owner.

Too bad plasma stealth doesn’t work, makes the jet glow like a 1000WT bulb and disables the fighters’ sensors... Anyhow, the S-47 would have to pick up the F/A-35 and execute a firing solution before the F/A-35 did so to him. Most likely the F/A-22A would destroy all bogeys while the F/A-35 happily completes his bombing runs...

But since you asked if there are any jets that can defeat the F/A-35 and not what would actually happen in combat; the Su-47 would have to pick up the F/A-35 witch would be a jolly feat being that the JSF is ~fully aspect stealth and (most likely) like its compliment the F/A-22 will have an IRST jammer. All while the Su-47 which so far can’t successfully employ plasma stealth would be a kasatka on the JSFs small but extremely advanced radar.

Originally posted by LeftBehind
VTOL is fine and dandy but its not gonna help much in a dogfight

ask Argentine mirage/super entarde pilots that one( ones that survived the squabble over the falklands that is)

LOL, any plane which used VTOL in a dogfight would be blown out of the air before you knew it.
Explain how VTOL helps a plane in a dogfight, I can't see any possible way it would. All it would do is allow the plane to become an easier target, especially with the proficiancy of modern AAM's.

the use of VIFF `ing to rapidly reposition your aircraft and to dodge incoming missiles

Originally posted by skippytjc

Originally posted by LeftBehind
VTOL is fine and dandy but its not gonna help much in a dogfight

Thats what the F22 is for my friend. The JSF will have clear skies to bomb anything and anwhere it pleases. It will fly free from any Russian or Chinese threats. It will look and see the scattered wreckage of all the Mig 1.42's on the ground below as it cruises to its taget. Of course, that assumes that the Mig 1.42 actually gets in the air and flies some day in production.

Maybe you should try comparing another aircraft as close in development as the JSF? Not just something in design stage. If thats the case I can draw something up in Windows Paint in 15 minutes that will wipe out anything!

How old are you...really??!!

As for the Falklands war..IMO the argentinians were a bunch of dumasses..they should have won that war anyway you look at it...Its almost as bad as the Yom Kippur arab fiasco...

I want a real estimate on the PAK-FA/T-50 prototype release date...then we talk about competitors to the F-22/F-35..