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Following the launch of the Conservatives immigration policy Conservative Party Leader Michael Howard, told conservatives.com: "At the next election people will face a clear choice: unlimited immigration under Mr Blair or limited, controlled immigration with the Conservatives."
He went on: "The day I was elected leader of the Conservative Party in 2003 I promised not to duck the problems that Britain faces - that if something was true but tough, I wouldn't shrink from saying it. I come from an immigrant family. I understand that firm but fair immigration controls are essential for good community relations - as do the hundreds of thousands of other British families from immigrant backgrounds.
"We will set an annual limit to immigration, including a quota for asylum seekers. We will put in place 24-hour security at ports to prevent illegal immigration. We will introduce an Australian-style points system for work permits - giving priority to people with the skills Britain needs. And we will tighten the immigration rules to stop bogus marriages. Taken together our proposals will lead to a substantial reduction in the number of people settling in the UK. They will ensure that Britain moves forward as a confident, diverse yet united society. And they will create a fairer, more humane asylum system."
To quote Labour's policy there "is no obvious upper legal limit to immigration".
Originally posted by UK Wizard
It’s your choice, controlled immigration under a Conservative Government or unlimited Immigration under a Labour Government.
But the precise nature of those limits is now open to question, following Soames's admission that they would have to be 'entirely flexible given the situation'.
He added: 'It must be understood that, were there to be a great disaster and Britain had to do her bit, we would take in people.'
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Every UK gov of whatever colour has since 1968 passed at least one Act of Parliament bill exerting a further tightening up on the 'issue' of immigration.
Not only do I find the making of immigration a big deal at election time distasteful (because tories must by now know how this is picked up by racists and petty xenophobes) but the well of ignorance, base prejudice and our worst instincts this seeks to exploit is nothing short of disgusting IMO.
It seems even some tories are already back-peddling and 'softening' this latest 'policy' too -
A backbench Labour MP tonight broke with his party’s line on immigration by suggesting that economic migration to the UK should be halted.
Originally posted by UK Wizard
Doesn't mean anything if they still aren't working well enough.
True or False it is a major issue, true, immigration and asylum have a great effect on the UK.
and it also seems a Labour MP is fed up of Labours immigration policy:
news.scotsman.com...
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
But it does mean it is an outright dumb lie (not to mention dangerous given the way the ultra-right in the UK look to these tory pronouncements as 'justification') to claim and pretend, as the tories are currently doing, that there is no system of control at all.
- It's just a pity so much of this is based on ignorance and myth, right?
Originally posted by UK Wizard
So the Tory's shouldn't use it becasue they'll get the far-right all worked up, its policy plain and simple, Labour believe in one type of immigration and the Tories believe in another.
So the people who have asylum or immigration centres built next to there homes don't matter do they
Originally posted by daveydavey
All the conservatives are doing is exploting the fear dreamt up in rags such as the Daily Mail.
Just a few weeks ago was the Halocaust memorial day, take pride in the fact that Britian accepts aslyum seekers in to its country and gives a hand to those suffering from cruel dictatorships
Don't EVER let the conservatives back in power.
I read "The Times"
Originally posted by UK Wizard
Originally posted by daveydavey
All the conservatives are doing is exploting the fear dreamt up in rags such as the Daily Mail.
So what 'rag' do you read?
Just a few weeks ago was the Halocaust memorial day, take pride in the fact that Britian accepts aslyum seekers in to its country and gives a hand to those suffering from cruel dictatorships
But under Conservative plans more real asylum seekers would get in because the bogus ones would be turned away.
Don't EVER let the conservatives back in power.
Nice to see we discuss politics in a calm and sensible way
Originally posted by daveydavey
Im sorry if my views regarding the Conservatives arn't calm and sensible, but (as you might have guessed ) Im from the North East, and there is not a chance in hell of me ever voting for them after the damage theyve done up here, turning the countries biggest shipping port into a nothing, destroying coal mines and industry, putting millions out of work, there is no way they should be allowed to control a country.
The immigration plans are nothing short of opportunist,
its a politcal nightmare trying to get such legislation through Europe, what makes Howard think he will be able to do it?
or is he going to somehow pull us out of Europe???
Oh and then theirs the hundreds of thousands of civil cervants jobs going out of the window, more unemployment under the torys?
we havent got a working rail network, go figure...
Poll Tax anyone?,
Supporting gassing of the kurds in build up to WW2, anyone?
Originally posted by ubermunche
I disagree that when they bring up immigration they play into the hands of the far right, it's when issues such as these are ignored that the far right sees a foothold and exploits it to the max.
How long ago was it that so called educated liberals were telling us all that our fear of crime far outweighed the reality, well the fear turned out to be justified because neither party felt the need to tackle it's causes.
It may well turn out to be the same with immigration.
It's unreasonable to inhibit open discussion by accusing people of xenophobia and hysteria.
Originally posted by UK Wizard
I'd like to point out Labour is also cutting large numbers of civil servants
However given that an immigration 'act' has gone through Parliament every gov 'term' since 1968 when are you saying the issue has been "ignored"?
- Excuse me? "Educated liberals"!?
Jayzuss we're not going to start that totally childish perversion of the term 'liberal' here in the UK are we?
The fact is that as far as crime was concerned the tory party (and mates in the press) had worked themselves into the tragically sad position of having wound the public up into a great fear over the levels of crime that doubled during their tenure when the crime figures fell no-one believed them!
Sadly a consequence that still reverberates and holds true to this day, despite what surveys say about overall crime levels in the UK.
- It is perfectly reasonable to question how come this issue only ever comes out when the tories get desparate enough to feel the need every election time if it is supposed to be such a 'burning issue' with the public.
It also seems perfectly reasonable to me to point out the reality of the situation and when the people expressing such 'worry' and 'concern' are (usually) actually exaggerating the matter (and often, though it is true not always, for very obvious purposes).
4.8% of the UK population is immigrant, most of it is around London and the SE.
It amazes me just how 'worried' and 'concerned' some people get despite not actually having much of an immigrant community near them.....
....unless, of course, what they are really 'worried' and 'concerned' about are the 'brown Britons' they imagine, wrongly, to be 'immigrants' too?
Originally posted by ubermunche
The problems being encountered with immigration today are a world away from those of 1968.
Totally inadequate border controls, immigrants coming through and dissapearing into the population unchecked. Criminal gangs targeting the UK and an army of human rights lawyers making a mint from bogus asylum claims. This in no way denies the fact that there are genuine economic and political refugees who are willing to integrate and contribute, it just means that people are concerned about a proportion who don't. In this instance the issue has been ignored or at least rebuffed by a govt that doesn't want to talk about it.
Yes the educated type who took it upon themselves to smack us on the wrist and told us not to be so hysterical and paranoid as we gazed through our windows and saw it all happening outside. Funny how when the Rolexes and four by fours started getting nicked that it was universally agreed we had a rising crime problem.
Sorry it might become an issue for politicians only around election time, but for normal people it's been pretty much a talking point for a good couple of years.
What would these not very obvious purposes be then?
And I live in the South East so I guess it's OK for me to talk about it and ask questions.
I live next door to some of those 'brown Britons' you mention as well as a fair proportion of eastern Europeans, Indian, Pakistani Chinese etc and have never had any trouble from them all this time so I could care less about their ethnicity in fact most crime and anti social behaviour around here is down to the indigenous white population.
it's actually about how many we can sensibly accomodate and who qualifies and why they do, not skin colour.
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- Maybe (but it's hardly something quantified, even the survey(s) that show this subject a 'cvoncern' amongst a large section of the public do not actually attempt to quantify that level of concern) , but it is still deeply suspicious that the tory party only wheel this one out at election time.
Originally posted by gareth_24
Firstly I would be interested to know where he gets his figures from.
it's all very well to spout off figures like that (and they may well be right) but he has to back it up with evidence.
If the figures are true it would certainly surprise me, and it gives a different perspective of the general impression we get from the media in general.
i myself was the victim of a crime about a year ago, from a young girl of eastern european decent - i think romanian.
i feel this article is not tackling the real issues and is squabbling about petty details in the hope of discrediting the conservatives. so sorry sminkey, i dont agree with your assessment of this being "an excellent article".