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The demise of the Labour Party in the UK

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posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 04:46 PM
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I was going to put this in the rant section but decided to put it here in the mud-pit as this forum is dominated with US politics.


Who knew ‘Labour values’ included disrespecting the very people the party claims to represent?

A comment underneath a recent article I read relating to Jo Stevens, Labour’s former shadow secretary for Wales. Stevens wrote an impassioned article for the Guardian explaining that she will be voting against Article 50 ‘to protect Labour values’ despite the fact that the majority in Wales voted to leave the EU.

In my view, the writing was on the wall when Labour jettisoned class struggle in favour of identity politics. This has been compounded by the appointment of Corbyn, an ideologist and moralist who is detached from the mechanics of the real world. His economics are absurd and his foreign policy is alarming. Corbyn is also responsible for the impending power vacuum in British politics.

We now have utter disdain towards the Brexit vote from many Labour MPs, supported by the 'chattering classes'. Some MPs, lead by Umunna, are promising to thwart the will of the demos by voting against the government's final Brexit Bill. The words ‘the strength of our common endeavour’ are printed on the reverse side of Labour Party membership cards. Do these words actually mean anything to today's Labour Party?

Labour has chosen Gareth Snell, an arrogant condescending Remainer as its candidate in the upcoming Stoke Central by-election. They have chosen to ignore the fact that Stoke-on-Trent had the highest Leave vote in the country (69.4%). They have also ignored their own poll which places UKIP 10 points ahead. Says it all really.

ETA: Recent Polls




edit on 1-2-2017 by Morrad because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 04:57 PM
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They are no longer relevant.

There was a time when I truly believed in Jeremy Corbyn, but alas it was not to last.

To be whining about Trump when compared to the Chinese, well, there is no comparison. Besides, the U.S will make the U.K more money than the Chinese ever would.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 05:04 PM
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Deputy leader Tom Watson suggested that ministers who resign rather than vote for Article 50 should be reinstated after the vote. Labour values are a joke.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 05:09 PM
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originally posted by: Morrad

Deputy leader Tom Watson suggested that ministers who resign rather than vote for Article 50 should be reinstated after the vote. Labour values are a joke.






Deputy leader, continuously at odds with his leader.

It's a joke.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 05:10 PM
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I won't profess to be an expert on your labor party, but as I understand, it is similar to our US democratic party. At one time they stood for the working man, the "little guy". Now they've redefined the "little guy" to be a person who provides no viable contribution to society other than just existing.

They've moved off their base, much like our democratic party has. They no longer represent the working man, but pander to those who will elect them. They've lost their support from the working class.

Full disclosure; I actually have a fair amount of time working with my brothers from the UK (great bunch, all of them) in Asia. So, I'm not completely 'dumb' on the matter.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 05:21 PM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
I won't profess to be an expert on your labor party, but as I understand, it is similar to our US democratic party. At one time they stood for the working man, the "little guy". Now they've redefined the "little guy" to be a person who provides no viable contribution to society other than just existing.

They've moved off their base, much like our democratic party has. They no longer represent the working man, but pander to those who will elect them. They've lost their support from the working class.



Well you haven't done a bad job in understanding it ..... that's pretty much

the way it is



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 05:25 PM
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a reply to: Morrad

Two thing's have happened.

Theresa may has so far turned out to NOT be as bad as Cameron and she got rid of the hated LDS though she has as yet not reversed any of there policy's, she has however not gone ahead with several of there more cruel and draconian policy's YET and remember she was a part of there government.

Corbyn whom many in the UK hoped was going to be as good as his word was unfortunately too weak, too dilatory and then not openly patriotic enough, he has not argued as effectively in parliament as we would have liked but the last straw for many of us was his Stupid invitation to Donald Trump to visit the Finsbury Mosque which so very many British (whom are not racist) see as a hotbed of Islamic extremism and wondered what the hell was he doing making such a Stupid invitation, he was not making a point he was making a protest.

We need the old Labour party back and thought he was that but in fact he turned out to be not what we wanted, the old labour party was not as left wing as Corbyn but it WAS more left wing than the equally preposterous NEW LABOUR which with it's thatcher inspired policy's was really just a group of political student's whom wanted power for themselves that then hijacked the labour party because it's strong ready voter base gave them a chance of achieving there ambition's.

It is not the end of the labour party but what it represents is a set back for the entire welfare system, NHS and public services of the UK as the Tory's are ideological opposed to all of these, remember Cameron was setting up the NHS for privatisation and so did Tony Blair, Cameron though brought in a policy that is disgusting which has to do with YOUR BODY, YOUR CHILDRENS BODY's and all people's in this country, not only is there now a two tier health system were there used to be a one tier system and it today give's priority treatment and care to private patient's but this private health care system is buoyed up by Cameron's change in law which made it so that if you go into hospital and die (strangely they don't seem to saving anyone unless they DO have private health care) they can then HARVEST ALL YOUR ORGANS AND INDEED YOUR ENTIRE BODY for medical services and transplant's, now remember for the private sector this is a hell of a financial boost and the semi privatised NHS which is prioritizing private patient's over NHS (And remember we pay for the NHS anyway via our national insurance contribution's so we are being ripped off by Tory policy AND New Labour policy).

I could go on about the Actual wrong's done by the Tory's but these day's the British electorate seem to be a rather illiterate bunch whom are led by there nose ring's like blind cattle to the slaughter, they are told that the LABOUR party is bad and sadly there is something to that, I really hoped Corbyn was going to be the man but he has been a disaster with like I say the last straw for me being that Invitation to Donald trump visit the Finsbury mosque which was seen widely as utterly disgusting and showed that Corbyn was not in touch with us but actually FAR out of touch with us.

Now I have always voted Labour even when I was foaming at the mouth over Thatcherite NEW LABOUR but Corbyn is TOO left even for me and his choice of Cabinet leaves a hell of a lot to be desired though some of them would actually make far better leader's than him.

Labour will come back but how many of us will it have lost by that point, there is no choice for me, I utterly despise the Tory party though have found May is not as bad as I dreaded and as a person I may even like her but not as a Tory leader if you get my opinion there and the Liberal Democrat's will never be forgiven by me for forming there Coalition with the Tory's going back though admittedly that was an ego trip and favour for a friend by there leader at the time because HE had been friend's and indeed the bat boy for Cameron at Eton (GOD why on earth do we have to put up with a group of self serving utterly contemptuous but cunning idiot's running our nation just because they went to Eton, what the hell is it do they owe favour for use of there back side's to one another or something).

Still I almost like there new leader and may actually vote for him though likely I will withhold my vote as it look's as though the Tory's in spite of the harm they are doing to so very many British and the fact they have not scrapped the evil zero hours contract's and are using people whom have NO real work to disguise the unemployment figures and massage them to look good which is down and out utter lying to the British public are actually going to get back in yet again.

So we have a choice, criminal lying self serving right wingers or idiotic and unable to heal the rift in there own family left winger's.

The middle ground in that is not the Liberal democrat's it is actually the British public as the Liberal Democrat's are not even worthy of there own name, the old Liberal party were Good Guy's but the Liberal Democrat's are just as much a group of hypocrites as the rest of them but right now they look to gain vote's as the only port in a storm for so very many disgruntled life long labour voters whom did hope that Corbyn was going to represent them and instead found he was more interesting in championing MINORITY causes over the mass of the Labour voter's real requirement's and are now (myself included) having to admit we made a mistake voting for him as leader, in short the word utter pr@ come's to mind.

Maybe it is time we had a NEW Party.

edit on 1-2-2017 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 05:29 PM
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Just like the RNC with the DNC, UKIP can just sit back and the and watch the labour party make itself irrelevant.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 05:52 PM
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What's the 'chattering classes'?



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: MysticPearl

Wikipedia


edit on 1-2-2017 by Morrad because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: MysticPearl
Roughly speaking, the politically correct. The media, the literary elite, and those who think in the same way.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 06:07 PM
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This would not be the first time a British party has broken up, as a result of changing circumstances.
The Liberal party of Victorian times was a coalition; the Whigs (reform-minded aristocrats), the business world, the middle classes, the radical theorists, the working classes.
Gladstone lost the Whigs and much of the business world (e.g. Joseph Chamberlain) when he decided to push for Home Rule for Ireland.
After the First World War, the working class and the radical theorists transferred their loyalties to the new Labour Party. In reaction to that, nearly everybody else (e.g. Winston Churchill) took refuge with the Conservatives. The Liberals had already split during the war, partly on personal issues, and they were now left representing nobody in particular.
There is a real possibility here of a similar shift in allegiances, now that the electorate has changed so much.

edit on 1-2-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 06:26 PM
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Look, I don't mean to sound rude, but some Brexiteers clearly need a lesson on democracy.

The nation voted and by a very narrow margin, 51.9 to 48.1. The narrowest of victories.

By rights, one would expect a 51.9/48.1 split in the House Of Commons, as elected officials represent the will of their constituents.

And as the result showed, 48.1 of the UKs constituents voted Remain.


MPs of constituencies that voted Remain have a democratic duty to represent the people who elected them. They're not 'traitors', they shouldn't be sacked. They were doing their job in a parliamentary democracy.

Just because the Brexit vote won by a narrow margin does not mean the wishes and thoughts of the other half of the country should be completely ignored.



So really if Parliament reflected the democratic will of the people, the result today should have been much closer to 50/50. But it wasn't.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 06:42 PM
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The what party????

Anyone else think that if the SNP Started sending candidates down south on a manifesto of Scottish independence that they would become the main opposition party???

I know it won't happen but seriously what the hell are Labour up to, they seem determined to rip themselves apart.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 06:42 PM
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originally posted by: Painterz

Just because the Brexit vote won by a narrow margin does not mean the wishes and thoughts of the other half of the country should be completely ignored.

So really if Parliament reflected the democratic will of the people, the result today should have been much closer to 50/50. But it wasn't.


What you mean is "I'm unhappy that we lost, I was hoping that Parliament would accidentally vote against it".

If Parliament reflected the democratic will of the people, the result would be 100% for Brexit - because the majority wanted it, so all of Parliament should be taking steps to implement it.

Every MP voting against it, is actually going against the "democratic will of the people", which in itself is a contentious term but I'm not going to dwell on it because it undermines my point a teeny-tiny bit...



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 06:56 PM
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Labour has lost Scotland to the SNP. So they're 40-50 seats down before the next UK General Election campaign even begins. In Scottish term it's now very simple ... a Labour vote is a wasted vote. Only the SNP can be relied on to represent Scotland's best interests at Westminster. I don't necessarily believe that myself, but it's the political narrative up here right now.

Which presents those down south with a huge problem. With the loss of Scotland, Labour doesnt have the numbers to form a majority government at Westminster, not now not ever. There's no possibility of disgruntled tory voters being charmed by Corbyn, the press will destroy him at the next election. They just have to put photos of him and Sturgeon on their front covers and middle England will flee to the Conservatives.

And the Lib Dems ? They are absolutely toxic, a party ridiculed by just about everyone, they're not a safe haven for a frit middle England.

So. Faced with that, my best guess is that the next general election will be characterised by a record low turnout, the Tories with a thumping majority and the SNP benches being full to the gunnels again, with the pressure cooker for Scottish independence being switched onto high power.

Labour is a busted flush for 10-15 years, that's my gut feeling. We'll have to wait for another 1997 all over again I'm afraid.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 07:25 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
The what party????

Anyone else think that if the SNP Started sending candidates down south on a manifesto of Scottish independence that they would become the main opposition party???

I know it won't happen but seriously what the hell are Labour up to, they seem determined to rip themselves apart.


No BUT if they dropped the Scottish manifesto then spoke about everything else they wanted but in BRITISH term's rather than simply Scottish term's true labour voter's would see them for what they are, a breakaway labour party (though in there current guise they are an independence party first and foremost).

As such and remember LABOUR was born in Scotland and itself began as a Scot's party many of the labour voters would (if they could ever forgive the feeling of abandonment they have toward the SNP for dumping them because of the London elite and wanting to tear the country in half) then consider genuinely switching there allegiance to them, they would also have to change there name though to Northern Labour.



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 01:59 AM
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a reply to: Morrad

In terms of the article 50 vote this was a rare example parliamentary democracy working exactly as it's meant to. The majority of MPs went with result of the refendum and those who couldn't support it voted with their conscience and should be applauded for that.

As for the Labour party, short of a total implosion by the SNP it is difficult to see how they will get back into government outwith a coalition. Frankly given the state of the party at the moment I am not sure this is a bad thing. Unfortunately it does mean practically uncontested Tory policies for the foreseeable.



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 03:23 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Morrad
Unfortunately it does mean practically uncontested Tory policies for the foreseeable.


I'm interested to see how UKIP fare in the next election. They are fairly well positioned to fill the gap of "alternative" that the Lib Dems previously held, however they're still riding on the back of being seen as a party that actually managed to achieve something. It seems likely that they are a bit of a one-trick pony, however, and that is likely to be their downfall - along with having many candidates who are just plain unlikable.

Still, UKIP is close enough to the Tories that it might provide a realistic alternative for many people. It'd worth remembering that they pulled in more votes than SNP and LD combined in the last election (12.6% of the vote, against 7.9%(LD) and 4.7%(SNP)) to make them the third largest party by votes, even though the current system only translated this into 1 seat in Parliament. The SNP comparison is a bit unfair, admittedly, as they were targeting a specific subset not the entire UK.



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 03:36 AM
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a reply to: Cobaltic1978




There was a time when I truly believed in Jeremy Corbyn, but alas it was not to last.

Yep , me too.




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