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First Real Crisis for Trump: Russia Attacked Ukraine

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posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 01:17 AM
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a reply to: karmicecstasy

Nothing wrong with drawing the conclusion or even finding a way to link them. I asked for that at least.

The thread title and the posters way of standing on this as a way to dig into Trump completely misses the point.

I have zero issue with your thread. I would add this. If your goal is to get information out, then take the spin out. What, in any way does this have to do with Trump and where is the evidence that this is by Russias hand (as stated in the title).




posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 01:23 AM
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originally posted by: Ohanka
Ukraine is not, and never has been, an American ally. There is no defence treaty of any kind between the US and Ukraine

That disinformation campaign around Ukraine really is successful.

I also don't think it's a good idea for America to come to the aid of folks like this:



Maybe Trump should send aid to the Anti-Fascist Resistance in Donbass, just to rile up the warmongers even more?

What the....what!?!

Budapest Memorandum

The Presidents of Ukraine, Russian Federation and United States of America, and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom signed three memorandums (UN Document A/49/765) on December 5, 1994, with the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. Through this agreement, these countries (later to include China and France in individual statements) gave national security assurances to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine. The Joint Declaration by the Russian Federation and the United States of America of December 4, 2009 confirmed their commitment.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 01:32 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: karmicecstasy



The thread title and the posters way of standing on this as a way to dig into Trump completely misses the point.


I agree. The title of the thread was completely sensationalist. Why would this be Trumps first real crisis. Its an internal problem for Ukrainians to deal with. Even if the Russians want one side to come out on top. Even if I think the Russian are wrong for meddling in the Ukraine. I would still say its not our problem at this time.

With the caveat of not knowing what obligations we have due to any treaties we may have with the Ukraine. But I am assuming those treaties do not pertain to internal strife. And as I said in previous post. Backing a side is not the same as Russia invading the Ukraine with its own armies.
edit on 1-2-2017 by karmicecstasy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 02:03 AM
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a reply to: Vector99

the Budapest Memorandum means yeah if it comes to it and asked? Those part of that accord will help... if sides are chosen? Well... who is more likely to keep a nuke out of the hands of those wanting to unleash them? Obviously those already having them and haven't pressed the "oh shiny" that why N. Korea is an issue... dont have them but have threatened the "oh shiny" as soon as they can accomplish it. There was talk of a possible coup occuring there as well...

Ripples of destabilization as the entire world economies got pinched... so sanctions hitting such places too? Extra pinch... that extra pinch? The ripples...



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 02:09 AM
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a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Doesn't change the fact the US and UK signed up to give national security assurance to Ukraine. The little green men in Crimea and East Ukraine are Russian. If they weren't Russian and/or they weren't on Russia's doorstep the US and UK would be helping.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 02:19 AM
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originally posted by: JacKatMtn
a reply to: karmicecstasy


I am all about restoring a Fed GOv't the folks can trust... Congress (long F'ing way to go), Executive branch (so far so good) and Judiciary branch (work to do)...

it's a vigilant effort on the folks part that will take years, to filter out those who would have served the USA up on a platter to an NWO situation... just my opinion...



I think that is what we all want. Government we can trust.

While I have not chugged the Trump kool-aid. I am willing to give the guy time and see what he does long term. He is our elected president. Even if you do not like the man he is. You have to respect the office. I stand by that.

There is no point in blaming Trump for stuff that may happen. Or may just be complete fantasy. I can only judge Trump on what Trump does. Not what he may do.

Bush did not work out. Obama did not work out. Trump deserves his chance to fix the problems our country faces. That does not mean I think we should all blindly go along with everything Trump says. That kind of thinking has problems all its own. And in my book is just as bad as the people who hate Trump for just being Trump. Even if Trump turns out to be a bad president. We have had bad presidents before. The last two included.

So I'm just in wait and see mode. Hoping that Trump will plant himself in the middle. I abhor both the far left and the far right. Which makes both sides dislike me and accuse me of being whatever one they don't like.

But none of the above is what the thread is about. So I'll leave it at that.





edit on 1-2-2017 by karmicecstasy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 04:03 AM
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originally posted by: Ohanka
Ukraine is not, and never has been, an American ally. There is no defence treaty of any kind between the US and Ukraine

That disinformation campaign around Ukraine really is successful.

I also don't think it's a good idea for America to come to the aid of folks like this:



Maybe Trump should send aid to the Anti-Fascist Resistance in Donbass, just to rile up the warmongers even more?


Are you really surprised this story is full of lies, cheating, rumour milling, outright leftist anti-Russian propaganda?

This is coming from a Californian, who, despite the embarrassing idiocy coming from their state of late are essentially a left leaning bunch from birth, a lefty news network known for corruption and lying it's face off, seemingly at almost every opportunity and who are seriously in danger of losing most of it's funding?

Is it really any surprise to anyone that we see this kind of BS plastered all over ATS, especially considering the liars have been at it here in numbers for months upon months?

All these people are doing, is highlighting how far people will sink when they are of a leftist militant bent...the bottom of the barrel has been repeatedly scraped, and then re-scraped in any attempt to besmirch Trump and the right. They don't seem to realise how badly they look to the world, and how bad they're making America and all Americans look.

What kind of American would knowingly and willingly lie, create false stories, stage protests where nobody really understands what they're actually protesting about when questioned about it, who call for a president to be impeached on NO grounds whatsoever after only a few days in office, and contribute to sacrificing any remaining vestiges of principled honour, loyalty to their country's cherished constitution and increasingly tenuous good-standing the USA has left in the world, simply because their candidate lost an election?

This is something even the Marxist Hollywood would struggle to create, deeming it be too unrealistic because the story would be never be believed!

The entire 'funded' leftist campaign, right from the cheating of Sanders, to the electioneering supported by a corrupt and morally bereft leftist funded media and wealthy but militant lefty individuals and corporations, to the lies and innuendo spewed by the democrat candidate all the way through, is almost treasonous in it's conception, almost Stalinist in it's execution, and certainly is sickening in it's implications and potential for damage that has been and continues to be ravaged on the biggest democracy on the planet.

If they had any shred of patriotism, honour or a single constitutionally-loyal bone in their bodies...they really ought to be ashamed, deeply ashamed at what they've done and continue to wreak on the once great USA.

Perhaps, while President Trump continues to KEEP delivering his election promises and works towards his main promise of restoring America to it's rightful greatness on the world stage, they can leave the USA, join China and go live in one of those huge cities the Chinese have built that are completely empty and unoccupied by anyone...i hear, like a lot of Californians and DNC members, they aren't big on democracy there either - Californians and most ironically, a lot of the thoroughly undemocratic-democrats would fit right in amongst their fellow comrades.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 06:50 AM
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a reply to: SeekingAlpha

CNN link ?? well I love fairytales but CNN is bad fairytales. just wondering what's the real news ?



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 06:56 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

That's how they handled Hitler you know. Let him have Poland



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 06:57 AM
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a reply to: frenchfries

These days you're vastly better off reading multiple sources, both mainstream and alternative, and then using your own, inbuilt and vastly superior powers of discernment to get to the truth.

We used to do that, before the MSM decided to make us believe they were the gods of right and wrong and we ought to just stop thinking for ourselves.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 06:58 AM
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a reply to: frenchfries

You guys need to give up this fake news anti-CNN drivel. News is news if it's fake we will know in no time flat.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 07:53 AM
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Thank you. It's like these guys are in a cult and refuse to listen to anything not approved by their Supreme Leader.

I've seen right wingers talk about how being a liberal is a "mental disease." The mental gymnastics in this thread alone is proof that accusation is a projection of themselves.



originally posted by: damwel
a reply to: frenchfries

You guys need to give up this fake news anti-CNN drivel. News is news if it's fake we will know in no time flat.




posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 07:56 AM
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How is it sensationalized? These are Russian backed rebels starting the offensive. Who do you think is ordering these attacks? Especially when it occurs right on queue after Putin has his "call" with Trump to confirm that the US is out of the way. Use some common sense folks.



originally posted by: karmicecstasy

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: karmicecstasy



The thread title and the posters way of standing on this as a way to dig into Trump completely misses the point.


I agree. The title of the thread was completely sensationalist. Why would this be Trumps first real crisis. Its an internal problem for Ukrainians to deal with. Even if the Russians want one side to come out on top. Even if I think the Russian are wrong for meddling in the Ukraine. I would still say its not our problem at this time.

With the caveat of not knowing what obligations we have due to any treaties we may have with the Ukraine. But I am assuming those treaties do not pertain to internal strife. And as I said in previous post. Backing a side is not the same as Russia invading the Ukraine with its own armies.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 08:11 AM
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a reply to: SeekingAlpha

www.foxnews.com...

This tells a slightly different tale. From this point of view, Kiev wants things to appear as the US needs to keep sanctions and/or impose more. Both sides are calling for a cease fire to make repairs and evacuate civilians.

It's messy and dirty but it certainly is NOT CLEAR who the aggressor is.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 08:11 AM
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a reply to: SeekingAlpha

Surely Trump would say Russia has not annexed Ukraine? He used that last time he was asked about the situation there.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 08:26 AM
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Crimea had always been a disputed territory. It violated the constitutions of the USSR and Russia when Khrushchev took it out of Russia and gave it to Ukraine in 1954. At the time it was USSR so it didn't matter much.

When Ukraine became a state in 1991, it should have given Crimea back to Russia. It didn't. Hence the trouble.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 08:58 AM
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LINK

(6) Finally, I want to highlight a story that many people haven’t noticed. On Wednesday, Reuters reported (in great detail) how 19.5% of Rosneft, Russia’s state oil company, has been sold to parties unknown. This was done through a dizzying array of shell companies, so that the most that can be said with certainty now is that the money “paying” for it was originally loaned out to the shell layers by VTB (the government’s official bank), even though it’s highly unclear who, if anyone, would be paying that loan back; and the recipients have been traced as far as some Cayman Islands shell companies.



Why is this interesting? Because the much-maligned Steele Dossier (the one with the golden showers in it) included the statement that Putin had offered Trump 19% of Rosneft if he became president and removed sanctions. The reason this is so interesting is that the dossier said this in July, and the sale didn’t happen until early December. And 19.5% sounds an awful lot like “19% plus a brokerage commission.”



TeConclusive? No. But it raises some very interesting questions for journalists to investigate.xt



LINK



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 09:05 AM
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a reply to: aseasyas123

I think you're ignoring the fact that Russia chose to let them have Crimea. It's not like Russia said, "Hey! Give us back Crimea!" and Ukraine refused. Ukraine had to give up their nuclear stockpile to keep it.

So stop acting like Ukraine has been in the wrong all these years and Russia just got around to fixing it. If Russia was in the right Putin wouldn't have needed to lie about every aspect of the annexation.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: Ohanka


Ukraine is not, and never has been, an American ally. There is no defence treaty of any kind between the US and Ukraine


Not exactly. The United States and Russia both agreed to the Budapest Memorandum, which guarantees Ukraine's sovereignty. However you think it started, Russia's annexation of Crimea violated that agreement. President Obama's weak response frightened NATO members in the region, especially Poland, which stands between Russia and its other exclave.

Candidate Trump had an adviser who who also adviser to the pro-Russian Yanukovytch. Trump had the GOP remove pro-Ukrainian language from its platform. As a wealthy businessman in Moscow, Trump almost certainly had compromising materials, заключение компромисса материалов, or компромат, kompromat, collected by the Russian intelligence apparat.

Will Trump stand up to his idol Putin and run the risk of being compromised? Or will he cave and run the risk of impeachment? Stay tuned.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 09:22 AM
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Quick show of hands;

Do you really think this would not have happened if Hillary won?

Wrong. It would have happened last Monday.

This has nothing to do with Trump or America, rather more so the knowledge that the US will likely not do anything about it.

As a poster said earlier; World war 3, or let them have Ukraine.

Its none of our business! Ukraine has bee owned by Poland Russia, almost everyone over there, yet all have been under Russian rule.

One of the reasons people don't like America is because we get involved where we aren't wanted. Trump won because America agrees.

UN, get to work if its such a big deal.
edit on 212017 by Butterfinger because: (no reason given)




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