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How to (potentially) radicalise someone.

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posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

In my real world I don't give a rat's ass whether they thank us or hate us because they're not stepping foot on US soil...




posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Or maybe you could just address my original points, as it was you who gave a very specific example that clearly did not involve refugees.



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: destination now

My specific examples? Those were separate from the OP - which you clearly haven't read. As I just mentioned - it's a hypothetical

:-)

I did address all your points - by pointing out that you're not interested in what I'm saying (or what the OP is saying)

Your reply was to my reply to someone else...not to my original post

If you want me to explain why all the drama - I've already done that


edit on 2/2/2017 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Yes, sorry, forgot to hit the reply to button on my first post..that was what I was questioning. But it seems that you just want to push your own agenda, without actually listening or taking into account anything, that anyone else has to say, and instead just post soundbites about how WE have ruined all these peoples lives, and now WE are making it worse by making them wait at the airport, even though A) it is nothing to do with ME and B) the OP is talking about the potential to radicalise a 5 year old by making them wait at the airport and then you gave an example of one such case involving US citizens whilst talking about refugees. They are either refugees, or they are US citizens, they can't be both simultaneously

So what really is the problem? And yes, you are creating drama by taking one hypothetical situation, one actual situation, mixing them together and creating a bleeding hearts scenario designed to convince people that there should be no border controls and that anyone who disagrees is cold hearted and lacking in compassion. Well I can assure you that I am neither, so please stop making assumptions.

Though I would still be interested to hear your thoughts on my first post. Why would this woman put her children in such a situation? There is such a thing as personal responsibility you know...and please don't bother with the "there's not point explaining to you..you won't understand" nonsense, that is just insulting and a total cop out.



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 12:35 PM
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a reply to: destination now

But it seems that you just want to push your own agenda, without actually listening or taking into account anything, that anyone else has to say

I believe (as do many others) that this is the wrong approach. If you need to call that an agenda - that's up to you


So what really is the problem? And yes, you are creating drama by taking one hypothetical situation, one actual situation, mixing them together and creating a bleeding hearts scenario designed to convince people that there should be no border controls and that anyone who disagrees is cold hearted and lacking in compassion. Well I can assure you that I am neither, so please stop making assumptions.

Are you angry then destination now? What I was trying to do was demonstrate how this EO affects people negatively - and that it's more than an inconvenience. It breaks my heart - and if that makes me a bleeding heart - I can live with that

The OP is suggesting (and I agree with him) that this approach is helping to create radicals - and making us less safe

Are you accusing me of saying that you aren't compassionate?

I do believe that many people are willing to look away from so many different situations - exactly because they are compassionate. They rationalize their fear and anger so that they can more easily look away. So, that's not the same thing - is it?

I didn't make any assumptions - about you. Maybe you should check your baggage if you want to have a genuine conversation

I will not apologize - to you - or anyone else for my opinion. This is all out of order, unnecessarily cruel - and there are good reasons why several judges and our Attorney General stepped in. Beyond partisan politics

:-)

You have a nice day now - OK?



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Yet still no response to my comments. Or do you think we should be responsible for this woman's choices, by taking her children who are US citizens out of the US to a country of concern, knowing that there was due to be a crackdown on immigration, and she herself is not a US citizen, I certainly would not put my child at potential risk like that, why should I feel for someone who would?

ETA I am not angry, nor do I carry in baggage in relation to this thread. I just posed a simple question, because I would not have done what this woman has done and put my children at any potential risk
edit on 2-2-2017 by destination now because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: destination now

I don't owe you the response you're looking for

Frankly - you're too angry and accusatory for me today

I think what I'm saying is obvious

All you need to do is read

ETA: As you say you're not angry - I'll take you at your word

Still - get a clue

:-)
edit on 2/2/2017 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 12:58 PM
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It's really sad and shameful what right wing media has done to the minds of Americans. Was it all for money, at the expense of the side effects, or was there an actual ideological effort by right wing media to rebuild a Nazi-like party?

From what I remember, ever since 9/11. FOX and right wing media have been migrating Americans under an umbrella of xenophobia, fear, aggression, and misinformation.

Is all of this division just a consequence of greed... or were they trying to destroy the country from the start? Everything about the hostility and extremism of the Trump admin, and this appointment of Bannon feels like an actual Nazi-like authoritarian plot.



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Sorry, but I think you do. You posted a very specific article in response to the OP, telling one family's story. I questioned that story in terms of "why is this our fault" the mother chose to take her young children out of the country and returned at a time when new legislation was imposed. Do you not think she bears some responsibility for HER actions? A simple yes or no. If no, then why not?

And please do stop putting the onus onto others, how would you have any idea how I am feeling. I am certainly not angry, I am sitting here in my warm house, after having eaten a nice meal, I am very grateful for my circumstances. I am also not in any way against immigration or helping those in desperate need by way of the refugee system. I do however believe that parents should still take their children's needs into account.

E.G. during the mass European migrations in 2015 and the terrible tragedy of so many people, including young children dying at sea, I questioned what I would do in their situation and yes, whilst I would want to remove my children to a safe place, I would have taken them to one of the many safe countries bordering my own. Once I was in a safe country, I would not them put them on an unseaworthy vessel, after having paid thousands to people smugglers, I would stay where I was, in the safe country. knowing I had funds to help us survive until I could apply for asylum through the proper channels..or better yet, hope that the conflict would be resolved and that we could return to our home country..that is what I mean about personal responsibility..not who was responsible for making me have to flee, but what I did with my own children after I did so.



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: destination now


Sorry, but I think you do. You posted a very specific article in response to the OP, telling one family's story. I questioned that story in terms of "why is this our fault" the mother chose to take her young children out of the country and returned at a time when new legislation was imposed. Do you not think she bears some responsibility for HER actions? A simple yes or no. If no, then why not?

And please do stop putting the onus onto others, how would you have any idea how I am feeling. I am certainly not angry, I am sitting here in my warm house, after having eaten a nice meal, I am very grateful for my circumstances. I am also not in any way against immigration or helping those in desperate need by way of the refugee system. I do however believe that parents should still take their children's needs into account.

E.G. during the mass European migrations in 2015 and the terrible tragedy of so many people, including young children dying at sea, I questioned what I would do in their situation and yes, whilst I would want to remove my children to a safe place, I would have taken them to one of the many safe countries bordering my own. Once I was in a safe country, I would not them put them on an unseaworthy vessel, after having paid thousands to people smugglers, I would stay where I was, in the safe country. knowing I had funds to help us survive until I could apply for asylum through the proper channels..or better yet, hope that the conflict would be resolved and that we could return to our home country..that is what I mean about personal responsibility..not who was responsible for making me have to flee, but what I did with my own children after I did so.


You're very special and very smart. So very, very deserving of the very best treatment for you and yours

Some mothers are stupid and wrong - and they get what they deserve

I was blind! But, now I see...

Thank you

:-)



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

and you answer with sarcasm...how very sad. I suppose that is the difference though. I DO care about the children and their futures and perhaps their own parents should take that approach as well, then, hypothetically, would never be radicalised because they have parents who love and care about them and want them to do well for themselves and in society in general.

What breeds radicalism, is parents who put their own selfish needs and beliefs above that of their children. That is what allows the hate to continue through the generations..



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 01:30 PM
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a reply to: destination now



and you answer with sarcasm...how very sad. I suppose that is the difference though. I DO care about the children and their futures and perhaps their own parents should take that approach as well, then, hypothetically, would never be radicalised because they have parents who love and care about them and want them to do well for themselves and in society in general.

What breeds radicalism, is parents who put their own selfish needs and beliefs above that of their children. That is what allows the hate to continue through the generations..


“No one leaves home unless home is the mouth of a shark”

No sarcasm. Now I see

Good day madam - my last post to you

edit on 2/2/2017 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I know why they had to leave their homes and that is very sad, but so many were in safe countries, they wanted to get to Europe, so they got in boats, the lucky ones landed in Greece, Italy etc, then they wanted to get to Germany, the UK etc. They are freezing on the streets of Croatia and France unwilling to register for asylum, because they want to get to the wealthier countries...

Yes, it is sad and depressing, yes people are desperate, but I would rather be in a tent city in Jordan than on the streets of Paris...that;s what I mean about choice.

ETA Thank you for the veiled insult at the end...Madam! Ok..that's fine..I shall bid you good day as well.
edit on 2-2-2017 by destination now because: (no reason given)



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