It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Fellow Trump supporters Lets admit the refugee order was poorly executed

page: 1
40
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:
+19 more 
posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:11 PM
link   
I think threads like these are difficult, but necessary to have a constructive political dialogue. This thread is going to be about how I, as a Trump supporter, thinks that the way that Trump rolled out his executive order on refugees was, to put it generously, amateurish. I will also argue that I think the response to this action by many on the left (and some on the right) and the media was hysterical and actaully allows people to overlook the mistakes that actually did happen.

So lets start with where was Trump coming from. I think that Trump sees the catastrophe in Europe in places like Germany with seemingly unfettered refugee intake, and fears for America and its accepting of refugees. I have no problem with this, and think that we should be vetting people coming into the US.

However, despite what I perceive as his good intentions, Trumps first action to help with this was rolled out terribly. There seems to have been no communication within the administration, there were questions about what happened to people with green cards, and there were literally people that were already on p[lanes that were affected. This is unacceptable. Regardless if I agree with a law or action, ALL people deserve advance notice before they are punished under these new actions.

For example, imagine if new fossil fuel standards make diesel truck illegal, and instead of a notice sent out that said it would take effect in 6 months, they just started pulling over truck drivers and giving them tickets without any notice. This would be outrageous, as was the way Trumps order surprised people that were already on planes.

And how would you feel if you were someone from one of these countries that helped the US military, and now you are told you are not welcome in the US? That is ridiculous.

Now it seems like many of these problems have already been hashed out, for example the answer about green cards seems to have been found, and there will be room for case by case exemptions for people like allies of the US military. But the shady roll out of this order has given plenty of ammo to people against Trump, and has shown that he may act too fast and without thinking through all of the details.

The last thing that I will criticize Trump for here is something that I will be watching closely. I made this thread during the campaign with the wikileaks info. www.abovetopsecret.com...

This was about Hillarys connection to the Saudia when she knew that they were selling weapons to ISIS. I wondered at the time why Trump didn't shout this from the rooftops? To me, this was the most important wikileak, and had the potential to shift the election toward him. The fact that he never called out this connection, and also has business ties to the Saudis is somewhat troubling to me. Now the fact that the Saudis were not included in this ban seems to possibly further the idea he will overlook the Saudis and their sponsor of terrorism.

By no means does this order prove that, but to me it is something that I will be watching to see if he ever is willing to call out the Saudis.

Now the other side of the coin.

First, lets not act like past administrations haven't had extremely botched roll outs. Who can forget the Obama care website? But I criticized that, and so I'll be damned if I won't criticize Trump when he deserves it.

Ans as usual, the media and the far left has been so hyperbolic that all warranted criticisms of this order are over shadowed. Most people in the middle or that are Trump supporters will be so disgusted with the media, Hollywoods, and these protestors that they will end up taking trump side and not looking at the issue critically.

Keep in mind that this action is temporary. This is not an elimination of Muslims entering the country. The innocent people that the media are shouting about that can't come here will be more than welcome in 3 months if they truly are great people. But if you would watch the media or Hollywood at the SAG awards, you would have thought that Trump was rounding up Muslims and shipping them out. This is garbage.

The numbers are all over the place, but even if we take the highest number, around 300 people out of over 300 thousand were detained, and they have already all been let go. Now people will say that these affected countries have over 90,000 people with visas that can't come here, but a couple of things on this. First, its only temporary. Secondly, where was Chuck Schumer crying, Ashton Kutcher screaming about this policy, media people suggesting this is the end of what makes America America, when Obama was adding people like crazy to the no fly list?

So people all over the world, including Americans, were put on a list by the government and not allowed to fly. The Americans on the no fly list were affected more than any of the people on Trumps order, because the order only prevented people from coming to America, but the no fly list means that you can't ever leave or fly anywhere. This was tens of thousands of people, and has been shown over and over again, many people were put on the list for know reason, and didn't even know they were on the list!

Where were those that hysterical today on this issue? Not only were they in support of this list, they wanted to further its use to stop people from other rights, such as buying a firearm.

300 people were detained slightly, and people on the left melted down. Ironically, these protests inconvenienced many more people almost just as much. Do these protestors really think that by holding up the rest of these passengers they are making them more likely to come to their political side?

And the more hysterical these protests are, and the fact that they protest every action Trump takes, people get tired of it. And so legitimate criticism of Trump is forgotten as people get tired of watching all of these protests and talking heads.

So in summary, I think there were big problems with how this order was rolled out, many of which have at least been attempted to be dealt with. However, the hysterical reaction by many on the left is blown way out of proportion.



+4 more 
posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:14 PM
link   
I thought the president said 109 were detained.

So, I guess the 800 or so (vetted) refugees who were set to enter should understand why they have to stay in a refugee camp until Trump figures things out.



posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:15 PM
link   
yeah it was,
he should have had a new vetting process in place before he started locking people out.

after it was in place then he could have said, everyone has to be re-vetted and it could take awhile, in the meantime you can`t enter.
edit on 30-1-2017 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:16 PM
link   
a reply to: Phage

We have to start somewhere.

Given that fact, it is inevitable that some people were inconvenienced.

Upholding the safety of Americans is worth it, though. Wouldn't you say?


+8 more 
posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:17 PM
link   
I think that Trump's Executive Order was reasonable. It is temporary. The EO clearly stated the intention, which was logical and reasonable. It allows for review and updates of vetting procedures to be sure that we are allowing people in who will hopefully not be a danger to citizens. Trump included countries that have been predetermined by intelligence agencies, during the Obama administration, as sources of terrorists. The EO authorizes the DHS to allow admittance from these countries on a case-by-case basis.

Trump is our president. We elected him, for one thing, because he pledged to take action to keep us safer from terrorism. This was a reasonable step towards that goal.

It is the media who distorted this and blew it out of proportion.
It is Democrats who organized protests to further blow it out of proportion.

The EO was reviewed and approved by White House Legal Counsel.


edit on 1/30/17 by BlueAjah because: (no reason given)

edit on 1/30/17 by BlueAjah because: clarify



posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:17 PM
link   
a reply to: Tardacus

Or he could have put a 90 day freeze on any new entries from all countries.


+10 more 
posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:18 PM
link   
The only thing that's been poor is the reporting of it.

It's been short on facts, and long on lies.



posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:18 PM
link   
a reply to: Grambler

To halt legal immigration goes against what it means to be American. We all can agree on that I would think. Trumps use of the EO to halt ALL immigration was sloppily handled as you pointed out. However, as has been mentioned and sourced numerous time, the countries of designation lie within the Obama administration. As soon as there is a definitive timeline and vetting program fleshed out, tensions will ease up IMO.

On Saudia Arabia, I've no words. It's a complete hypocrisy in regard to trying to stop extremists. I don't see any winning argument where S.A. is allowed to go on uninhibited.

People need to think. Pull their partisanship back to the middle and stop letting extreme bias pull them away from their logic and/or values.

Good read and worth a re-read. S*F Grambler!



posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:18 PM
link   
Everything that happened was according to plan.




posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:19 PM
link   
a reply to: Grambler

It was poorly rolled-out for the reasons you stated, and it quickly turned into cat-nip for the opposition and media, whom will seize on the opportunity to shame the administration mercilessly.

I do think, however, that it will work out. More information will be gathered and implemented towards the betterment of the law, not to mention the awareness and attention will highlight the plight of the persecuted in areas that have been all but ignored until now.

edit on 30-1-2017 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:20 PM
link   
a reply to: BlueAjah


It is the media who distorted this and blew it out of proportion.
It is Democrats who organized protests to further blow it out of proportion.


That's such a polite understatement.



posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:20 PM
link   

originally posted by: Tardacus
yeah it was,
he should have had a new vetting process in place before he started locking people out.

after it was in place then he could have said, everyone has to be re-vetted and it could take awhile, in the meantime you can`t enter.


If they rolled this out slowly, those who want to get in for bad reasons would have been scrambling to get in before things changed. The sudden halt was the only way to prevent that from happening.



posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:23 PM
link   
a reply to: Grambler

I disagree and here is why.

Let's just say that the program was announced in a manner let's just say, "Hey rest of the World, 20 days from now we will institute a ban......"

How many Terrorists do you think would come in those 20 days?

We just got rid of President who broadcast to the World and those who would like to see us dead, everything he would and would not do!

Also, let's just drop the façade that those on the Progressive left will accept ANYTHING that comes out of this new administration. They are set for destroying every value this country has because they didn't get a trophy this time around.
I didn't see those who didn't want Obama as their President out on the streets beating the hell out of people and destroying peoples property.


I'm sorry man, I certainly hope you don't run into some of these animals on the streets and try to reason with them. If you don't have a CCP you will end up injured at best.




edit on 30-1-2017 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)


(post by Logarock removed for a manners violation)

posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: Phage
I thought the president said 109 were detained.

So, I guess the 800 or so (vetted) refugees who were set to enter should understand why they have to stay in a refugee camp until Trump figures things out.


Who vetted them? The same people that vetted and gave weapons to the moderate rebels in Syria and Libya that turned out to be Al Nursa and ISIS? Didn't Obama's admin assure us these moderate rebels were vetted, only to have them turn the very weapons we gave them against innocents. How does Libya look today?

And these 800 people are not being tortured. The are being detained until they can be vetted by the new administration. The Obama knew Trump planned on doing this, yet still rushed people in.

And its only 800 people, its not the end of the world as many are making it out to be.



posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:25 PM
link   
a reply to: Logarock

So insightful. I wonder how many seconds until that post is deleted?



posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:26 PM
link   
a reply to: BlueAjah




If they rolled this out slowly, those who want to get in for bad reasons would have been scrambling to get in before things changed.


You mean all those bad guys have just been kicking back, taking it easy?
Or you one of those who don't seem to understand that refugees don't just get allowed into the country all of a sudden like.



posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:26 PM
link   
Well, I sure don't want to see America become anything like Europe. I certainly don't want to throw open the doors and just let any Tom, Dick, Harry or Acmed in without looking them over. I should be a honor and a privilege to be admitted to the U.S. and not a right as some are advocating.



posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Grambler


Go blow yourself.



Not flexible enough.



posted on Jan, 30 2017 @ 08:28 PM
link   

originally posted by: Grambler
I think threads like these are difficult, but necessary to have a constructive political dialogue. This thread is going to be about how I, as a Trump supporter, thinks that the way that Trump rolled out his executive order on refugees was, to put it generously, amateurish.


THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

That's it.

Honestly, I'm not sure how or what I feel about the whole immigration/refugee debate.

But, the way Trump is issuing his EOs - - is ridiculous. And yes, amateurish.




top topics



 
40
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join