Syrian Christian family, visas in hand, turned back at airport.

Here is what I am trying to piece together:

In a banned country for immigration to the US, if your religion is a minority in the country and you are being persecuted for it and are looking for religious asylum, then you should be admitted into a country that allows freedom of religion...this also applies to any branch of Islamic faith that could be a minority faith in a banned country. Muslims can get persecuted by other Muslims for not strictly following the majority branch of Islam in a banned country.

Banning ALL Muslims, in this case, practices of Islamic faith, can be considered discriminatory because not ALL Muslims follow the same interpretations of the Koran.

Same holds true for Christian religion and its MULTITUDE of branches. Methodists, Southern Baptists....and the list goes on.

Anyone who would give up freedom for safety deserves neither.

America is founded in part on Religious Freedom. If immigrants choose to use that freedom against the public, so be it. They are dealt with. However, you don't change the laws to give us "more protection" by stripping away freedoms. You leave the laws alone and you deal with those that would infringe on those laws for personal gain. You have to take the good with the bad. That is how freedom works.

In this case, banning all Muslims from those countries is an act against Civil Rights and Religious Freedom and it does not guarantee one more ounce of safety. If anything, it could make race/religion issues worse.

Supporting the Presidents EO, from my perspective, is largely based on biased, bigoted and discriminatory ignorance as well as fear all instilled by our Media, our government and our neighbors....and they all have the audacity to cry foul in situations like this even though they helped form the very problem we find ourselves in.

I do not support the Executive order because I support ALL religious freedoms.

Also, Muslim is not a race. Muslim is 100% the connotation for one who follows Islam. Confusing race and religion is a real problem for some.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: FelisOrion

You are working under the presumption that Islam is a religion - let's be extremely clear - it is not a 'religion' by way of the western definition of the word - more an all encompassing way of life where submission to Allah is only one part of it.

Devout Muslims would rank the Koran as the ultimate authority on morality, laws and human conduct over any other document in existence and we see in all countries where Islam is practiced, this self-segregation and refusal to assimilate into foreign cultures will ensure it remains a pariah to the collective consciousness of humanity.

Funny. All my Muslim friends and all the myslims in my are all seem to be assimilating and mingling with us just fine.

But then I guess I have my eyes open to sw this. You should try it.

Let me ask...do you actually know any Muslims?

Yes, I work in Indonesia visiting approx 3 months a year, have done so for the past 10 years. I lived on Christmas Island, a predominantly Islamic society, for many years amassing many life long friends. I directly employ folks from Saudi Arabia and Qatar in the oil and gas industry and have visited the Middle East countless times in my maritime career.

Yes, I know Muslims, I work and live with them.

That's a nice list. Tell me something, since all those are Islamic countries, where exactly have you seen Muslims not assimilating.

Because if you are telling the truth and really have done all that as met all those people then you would know how friendly, generous and welcoming Muslims are.

I know because I lived in Saudi arabia for 10 years and then went to a French school in London with lots of Middle eastern people there and now live in North London which is chock full of them .

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: FelisOrion

You are working under the presumption that Islam is a religion - let's be extremely clear - it is not a 'religion' by way of the western definition of the word - more an all encompassing way of life where submission to Allah is only one part of it.

Devout Muslims would rank the Koran as the ultimate authority on morality, laws and human conduct over any other document in existence and we see in all countries where Islam is practiced, this self-segregation and refusal to assimilate into foreign cultures will ensure it remains a pariah to the collective consciousness of humanity.

Funny. All my Muslim friends and all the myslims in my are all seem to be assimilating and mingling with us just fine.

But then I guess I have my eyes open to sw this. You should try it.

Let me ask...do you actually know any Muslims?

Yes, I work in Indonesia visiting approx 3 months a year, have done so for the past 10 years. I lived on Christmas Island, a predominantly Islamic society, for many years amassing many life long friends. I directly employ folks from Saudi Arabia and Qatar in the oil and gas industry and have visited the Middle East countless times in my maritime career.

Yes, I know Muslims, I work and live with them.

That's a nice list. Tell me something, since all those are Islamic countries, where exactly have you seen Muslims not assimilating.

Because if you are telling the truth and really have done all that as met all those people then you would know how friendly, generous and welcoming Muslims are.

I know because I lived in Saudi arabia for 10 years and then went to a French school in London with lots of Middle eastern people there and now live in North London which is chock full of them .

I think he is generally speaking about those of Islamic faith that do not follow a countries laws because they hold the word of Allah as the governing body not the laws of the country they might migrate to.

There was talk about this with the troubles Europe has had with the influx of refugees. I'll see if I can find an article or two on it.

en.islamtoday.net...
the above would be contradictory toward Muslims NOT following a non-muslim country's laws.


www.quora.com...
the comments at the bottom are worth a read

originally posted by: wdkirk

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: FelisOrion

You are working under the presumption that Islam is a religion - let's be extremely clear - it is not a 'religion' by way of the western definition of the word - more an all encompassing way of life where submission to Allah is only one part of it.

Devout Muslims would rank the Koran as the ultimate authority on morality, laws and human conduct over any other document in existence and we see in all countries where Islam is practiced, this self-segregation and refusal to assimilate into foreign cultures will ensure it remains a pariah to the collective consciousness of humanity.

Funny. All my Muslim friends and all the myslims in my are all seem to be assimilating and mingling with us just fine.

But then I guess I have my eyes open to sw this. You should try it.

Let me ask...do you actually know any Muslims?

Yes, I work in Indonesia visiting approx 3 months a year, have done so for the past 10 years. I lived on Christmas Island, a predominantly Islamic society, for many years amassing many life long friends. I directly employ folks from Saudi Arabia and Qatar in the oil and gas industry and have visited the Middle East countless times in my maritime career.

Yes, I know Muslims, I work and live with them.

That's a nice list. Tell me something, since all those are Islamic countries, where exactly have you seen Muslims not assimilating.

Because if you are telling the truth and really have done all that as met all those people then you would know how friendly, generous and welcoming Muslims are.

I know because I lived in Saudi arabia for 10 years and then went to a French school in London with lots of Middle eastern people there and now live in North London which is chock full of them .

I think he is generally speaking about those of Islamic faith that do not follow a countries laws because they hold the word of Allah as the governing body not the laws of the country they might migrate to.

There was talk about this with the troubles Europe has had with the influx of refugees. I'll see if I can find an article or two on it.

I know he is. My point I those Muslims are a small minority'.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

I live in Australia, work in the maritime industry in Operational management for a US based oil major which sees me travelling around Australasia and over to the US and M.E.

My comments about assimilation are my observations of Muslims assimilating into Australian culture. Cronulla riots being a testament to that. Queens Park - a suburb in Perth is another example.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Deaf Alien

You can't make an omlette without breaking some eggs.

If they are committed to immigrating legally, once Obama's farce of a vetting program has been fixed they will be welcomed.

But instead of running away, why don't they work to fix their own country?

Seriously, Obama has nothing to do with this.

Do you have to have an excuse for Trump?

With the exceptionn of making the illegal , legal ? With the exception of making it easier for Syriansd to enter the country ? Ask France , Belgium , Germany , Greece , Cyprus and many others how that strategy is working for them...
BugBGone

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

Two brothers, their wives and children left war-torn Syria with 16 suitcases and crossed the border into Lebanon. They were finally on their way to the United States after working for almost 15 years to join their family members stateside.

The Assalis are Orthodox Christians, one of the most persecuted groups in Syria.

Syrian Christian family, visas in hand, turned back at airport.

I thought we were going to let the Christians in? Or is the vetting process more complicated than we thought? And I thought they scoffed at the accusation of "Muslim ban"?

Oh LOL...

Now all of a sudden ya'll care about Christians again...

a reply to: muSSang

So far Trump has done everything he promised.

No. All he's done is sign giant pieces of paper in folders and held them up for the camera. And move into the white house, and talk to Putin and May and Pena Nieto.

He's just barking orders. And none of them have done anything but piss off half of this country and the rest of the world.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Deaf Alien
If they are committed to immigrating legally, once Obama's farce of a vetting program has been fixed they will be welcomed. But instead of running away, why don't they work to fix their own country?

a) Please show us all why Obama's vetting programme was a farce, and how it led directly to the deaths of Americans in the CONUS.
b) Fix their own country? How about you follow the people behind the money and arms and have those miscreants taken out. THAT will fix the problem...anything less is Bravo Sierra.

if the goal was to create chaos across the world, trump did a good job...

This is NOT the Mud Pit!!!

All rules for polite political debate will be enforced.
Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

You are responsible for your own posts....and please stay on topic.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

Two brothers, their wives and children left war-torn Syria with 16 suitcases and crossed the border into Lebanon. They were finally on their way to the United States after working for almost 15 years to join their family members stateside.

The Assalis are Orthodox Christians, one of the most persecuted groups in Syria.

Syrian Christian family, visas in hand, turned back at airport.

I thought we were going to let the Christians in? Or is the vetting process more complicated than we thought? And I thought they scoffed at the accusation of "Muslim ban"?

Obviously the ban includes all from those countries. Its actually th eairlines security fault here though. because they had proper documents and were christians to boot. the order even says christians are allowwed in because of minority status. And since they were in transit when it was issued it should not had applied as well.

originally posted by: Annee

Seriously, Obama has nothing to do with this.

Ermm yes he does.

It was because of HIM and Bush those countrys where destablised in the first dam place!

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Annee
Seriously, Obama has nothing to do with this.

Ermm yes he does.
It was because of HIM and Bush those countrys where destablised in the first dam place!

My only disagreement with that statement is that you are not going back far enough.

www.gq.com...

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Kuroodo
I think the EO's were specifically a ban for specific countries, not religion.
I'm not sure though. Every day is a new EO headline; I'm losing track fast

Me too.

Seems whatever his whim of the day is.

He is right. It's a ban on entire countries not religions. This is why the "Christian" family was denied.

I'll repeat it again for the liberals that seem to have a hard time understanding it. The ban covers entire countries regardless of what the individual's religion is.

I have a question for people against this temporary ban.
Trump makes a compelling argument for why we should ban these people from coming into our country, do you have a counter argument with better reasoning of why we should allow these people into our country?

a reply to: everyone

Now all of a sudden ya'll care about Christians again.

What do you mean? I've always cared about them, or anyone for that matter.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
I have a question for people against this temporary ban.
Trump makes a compelling argument for why we should ban these people from coming into our country, do you have a counter argument with better reasoning of why we should allow these people into our country?

Because you still have a sign at the door that says :
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

You telling me your people have not been working for the past couple of years vetting people to get families out of conflict zones?
You guys new?

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
I have a question for people against this temporary ban.
Trump makes a compelling argument for why we should ban these people from coming into our country, do you have a counter argument with better reasoning of why we should allow these people into our country?

Because you still have a sign at the door that says :
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

You telling me your people have not been working for the past couple of years vetting people to get families out of conflict zones?
You guys new?

That's a poem on a plaque that was placed on the statue of liberty. That isn't in our constitution or any laws.

Tell me, how does moving in refugees benefit Regular Joe that got laid off from the factory?

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
Tell me, how does moving in refugees benefit Regular Joe that got laid off from the factory?

How about you tell me, quite specifically, how it hurts him?

...and if the words on the plaque are meaningless, why not remove it?