BREAKING NEWS: Emergency Stay Granted - Defeat for Trump's Right Wing Agenda

originally posted by: Phoenix
a reply to: Indigo5

Again I point out the false "no solution, is the solution" kind of thinking that has led to this needing vigorous action.

Had other President's done their duty we would not need strong action.

We have not had an attack since 9-11 that was directed or carried out by foreign terrorists.

They have all been US citizens inspired by rhetoric (and now policy) similar to Trumps that re-enforce ISIS's narrative of a United States that will never welcome or accept Muslims.

In that context, this is not "Strong Action"...It is an action that is ineffective, based on Bannon/Briebarts false "Clash of Civilizations" narrative that his White Nationalist outlet has been selling for a decade, and an action that supports terrorists recruiting rhetoric and propaganda.

The EO is a straw-man....It does not make us "safer" in any measurable way, while it betrays everything we have told our Muslim allies in the fight on terror and reaffirms what Islamic extremists have claimed about the USA.

originally posted by: Indigo5
We have not had an attack since 9-11 that was directed or carried out by foreign terrorists.

This is a blatant falsehood.

* - 2002 Los Angeles International Airport shooting - Egyptian national
* - 2014 Queens hatchet attack - supporter of ISIL
* - 2015 Curtis Culwell Center attack - The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) claimed responsibility for the attack.
* - 2015 Chattanooga shootings - Kuwaiti national - inspired by foreign terror groups.
* - 2015 San Bernardino attack - 2nd shooter, the wife, was Pakistani - inspired by foreign terror groups (ISIL)
* - 2016 Ohio State University attack - Somali national / refugee - inspired by foreign terror groups (ISIL)
* - 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting - pledged loyalty to ISIL.

Failed attacks
* - 2004 financial buildings plot - plot to attack US financial buildings. 8 suspects - al queida
* - 2005 Los Angeles bomb plot
* - 2007 Fort Dix attack plot - entered as refugees - Anwar al-Awlaki followers
* - 2007 John F. Kennedy International Airport attack plot - assistance from Iran sought
* - 2009 plot to bomb new york subway system - 8 members of al queida
* - 2009 - attempt to blow up US airliner - Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab
* 2010 - 2010 – Raja Lahrasib Khan was arrested by the FBI while attempting to board a flight to England with a large amount of cash intended to fund an Al Queda plot to plant bombs at an unnamed American sports arena.
* - 2011 Manhattan terrorism plot
* - 2014 – A California National Guardsman was captured Monday after an FBI investigation revealed a foiled plot to attack the Los Angeles Subway and plans to help al-Qaida, officials said. Ased Abdur-Raheem, was a recent convert to Islam.
* - 2016 – 23-year-old Samy Mohamed Hamzeh was arrested January 25 after buying machine guns from undercover FBI agents. The man planned an attack on a Masonic temple in Milwaukee in the name of "defending Islam"
* - 2016 – A Tucson man is charged in federal court on terrorism charges for plotting to bomb a State Motor Vehicle office and Jewish Community Center in a plot thwarted by the FBI. He had been emailing contacts with the Taliban to show support for Jihad and to get instructions on bomb-making.
* - 2016 - A Brooklyn man, Mohammed Rafik Naji, 37, a legal US resident originally from Yemen, was arrested by New York City police and charged with preparing a "Nice Style Terror Attack".


* - Islamic terror groups currently operating
* - List of non-state terror attacks by year going back to 1970

The list are just a few examples of how wrong you and the left are in all of this. Also notice the dates they occurred and who was president at the time.


The EO is temporary to put in place new guidelines / policies / vetting procedures. Are you and the left still going to bitch after the EO lapses or will you find some other bs issue to bitch about and distort?

a reply to: Indigo5

Are you going to bother to cite the other laws in place since Obama that allow countries to be placed on a list and who can be denied entry into the US based on their nationality? Or are you going to ignore it because it undermines your false argument?

Talk about being dishonest...

State Department - Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015

Under the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015, travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP):

Nationals of VWP countries who have traveled to or been present in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, or Yemen on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited exceptions for travel for diplomatic or military purposes in the service of a VWP country).
Nationals of VWP countries who are also nationals of Iran, Iraq, Sudan, or Syria.

* - Cus toms and Border protection - Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act Frequently Asked Questions

Are there any exceptions to the new eligibility requirements?

Yes, the Act provides for limited exceptions to the restriction relating to prior travel to/physical presence in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, or Yemen. If you have traveled to Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, or Yemen to represent your program country on official military orders or official government business, you may fall within an established exception to the new eligibility requirements.

The US Constitution does NOT prohibit a religious test for immigration purposes. The religious test ONLY applies to Federal Office Holders.

Knowledge is your friend -
US Immigration Laws comprehensive list Cornell Law

a reply to: Indigo5

I got the wrong ohio attack so my bad. Here you go -

2016 Ohio State University attack

On November 28, 2016, a car ramming attack and mass stabbing occurred at 9:52 a.m. EST at Ohio State University (OSU)'s Watts Hall in Columbus, Ohio. The attacker, Somali refugee Abdul Razak Ali Artan, was shot and killed by the first responding OSU police officer, and 13 people were hospitalized for injuries.

Wrong incident and yet still you are wrong.

a reply to: Indigo5

The EO is a straw-man....It does not make us "safer" in any measurable way, while it betrays everything we have told our Muslim allies in the fight on terror and reaffirms what Islamic extremists have claimed about the USA.

Now, see, that is an argument... it may be one I disagree with, but it is a realistic argument.

The problem is that it is rallied around by the "Trump is dumb" or "Trump is a traitor" or "Trump is Hitler" arguments... which aren't really arguments at all. They're ignorant statements that only cause a loss of confidence in the minds of everyone listening, because they are indicative of a mindset that is completely irrational.

The goal is simple: make America safe from terrorism. We know there are those here and abroad who wish to do harm to America. Some are angry because they are jealous, some because they see us as evil, some because they think their religion demands it, some, probably, because they freakin' want to. Those who see us as evil will probably be encouraged by this Executive Order, but not the others. Those abroad will likely be much less able to carry out nefarious plans due to the Executive Order.

So it is obvious to me that this is not the end of the terrorism problem. I would say far from it. As Phage pointed out, there are other ways to infiltrate the US, including immigrating to a third-world Central American country, moving across their unsecured borders into Mexico, then wading across a ditch. That's why we need a wall and more border security in general. It's also why we need to go after illegal employers and sanctuary cities, to reduce the advantages of illegal entry, reducing the influx, and thus making it harder for terrorists (or criminals) to enter.

We also need to step up law enforcement domestically, to try and combat domestic terrorists. And finally, we need to improve our foreign reputation. We are known as an international bully who regularly overthrows governments and literally robs countries of their resources through deceptive practices, all for green paper. We have a lot of making up to do. But I do not believe we can ever regain international respect by acting soft and saying the right words... we have to deal with others as a strong country and prove through fair and reasonable actions that we have changed our ways.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Xcathdra

You might read your list carefully?

Also provide a link for where you cut and pasted it?

Then read what I wrote and tell me which attack was directed or carried out by foreign terrorists.

a reply to: Indigo5

How's Europe fairing with their refugees?

Working out well over there?

originally posted by: [post=21836242]TheRedneck

So it is obvious to me that this is not the end of the terrorism problem. I would say far from it. As Phage pointed out, there are other ways to infiltrate the US, including immigrating to a third-world Central American country, moving across their unsecured borders into Mexico, then wading across a ditch.

Or perhaps we should also build a wall across the Canadian border? Since they have welcomed refugees and publicly said they will continue to do so in light of Trumps ban. And Canada doesn't "extreme vet" like we do!

But I have spent some time in that watery, wild borderland to the north...a wall would not work...Hmmm..Lets invade Canada...for the US Citizens own safety!

Sorry..but yes the Wall is something a 3 year old would conceive of while watching cartoons..

It is an unholy waste of taxpayer dollars and does nothing to solve our problems.

a reply to: Indigo5

A wall is far from a new idea.
en.wikipedia.org...

As of January 2010, the fence project had been completed from San Diego, California to Yuma, Arizona.[dubious – discuss] From there it continued into Texas and consisted of a fence that was 21 feet (6.4 m) tall and 6 feet (1.8 m) deep in the ground, cemented in a 3-foot (0.91 m)-wide trench with 5000 psi (345 bar; 352 kg/cm²) concrete.

a reply to: Indigo5

The northern border is also a concern; I'm glad you mentioned it. Although, so far we don't have evidence of as large an influx as we do from Mexico.

It is impractical to think we can simply wall ourself off from the rest of the world, as I am sure you will agree. It probably wouldn't even be necessary to build a wall on our southern border, had it not been for the years of lax enforcement and active coercion of the residents by a small minority of profiteering Americans. But we cannot turn back the clock; what is, is. Now we need a wall, because the problem has grown so dramatically. We now have no other way to even keep up with who might be wading the ditch called the "Grand River" (Rio Grande).

At least Canada works with us in patrolling the border. Mexico takes advantage of us.

That's another reason I was happy to see Obama trying to normalize relations with Cuba. That makes us safer, because it decreases the likelihood of the next call being for a seawall around Florida. I hope that works out well, for both countries.

I really have no good answers... I only hope Trump does.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Indigo5

I did.. you apparently refuse facts that dont support your agenda.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Just a note.. I used to canoe across the Canadian border and back every year..2 day trip in with portages.. camp on a remote lake island for two weeks and canoe out for two days. Gods country. Did it for 11 years..only found a border agent once by accident. There was a station to check in with in theorey, but it was rarely manned. It is complete wilderness ...I mean real, old world wilderness and lots of water. The Canadian border is not protected in any way.

Just saying when you said that Canadians help us patrol the border? No one patrols the Canadian border...at least not 80% of it.

The answer is candles.

Pelosi Doesn't Know Where Her 'Real People' Are

a reply to: xuenchen

I dont think pelosi knows where she is half the time. She reminds me of the old CEO of the family business whose children slowly take all the power away, move their desk to the attic and just pretend when "CEO" comes into to work they just smile and nod as they make their way to the attic.

a reply to: Indigo5

I knew the Canadian border was mostly wilderness, but I did not know it was so sparsely patrolled. Thank you for the information; I need to re-analyze my position on that somewhat.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Canadas border is basically unguarded, yes.
People walk across it all the time, lots of recent reports of S. Americans fleeing the USA into Canada.
This is an actual event from last summer lol, it is not a parody site.

An estimated 1,500 Americans illegally and unexpectedly washed up in Canada late Sunday after strong winds blew them across the St. Clair River near Sarnia, Ont.

CBC News

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Indigo5

I knew the Canadian border was mostly wilderness, but I did not know it was so sparsely patrolled. Thank you for the information; I need to re-analyze my position on that somewhat.

TheRedneck

Yes...the ironic part was that each year we would head out in canoes on the US side of the border...

And dutifully navigated an hour out of our way (each year) to find the border check in station...A glorified shed and dock in the wilderness. It was virtually never manned, sometimes with a sign that said back in a few hours and a clip-board to sign names....sometimes not even that. Once we did pass a Canadian border agent...in his boat fishing...and managed to check in there. But honestly...anyone could cross the Canadian border...The vast majority of the border is in National Wilderness...no roads..no people..no nothing for a hundred miles. Just lots of water and woods.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Try google maps...go to satellite view and go to Minnesota. Look toward the center of the state and it's northern border and start to look around..zoom in...scroll to your left/west...A thousand miles of border...water and wilderness...a hundred miles from roads, people, civilization or anything...It goes on for a thousand miles.

Anyone can cross the Canadian border with a little camping experience.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Indigo5

I knew the Canadian border was mostly wilderness, but I did not know it was so sparsely patrolled. Thank you for the information; I need to re-analyze my position on that somewhat.

TheRedneck

That because we have a completely different relationship with Canada than we do Mexico. The economic situation in Canada is also completely different than in Mexico as well.

The laws and legal system in the US and Canada are similar and overlap in some areas, including law enforcement and military operation.

The number of Canadians illegally crossing the border to work (or Americans illegally entering Canada to work) are no where close to the number when compared to Mexico. Canada gets more issues of people wanting to illegally work in their nation coming from the UK and other commonwealth nations.

To be honest, and im sure people will disagree, but crossing into Canada from the US feels like crossing from one state into another (or crossing from one province into another in the other direction).

The Canada - US border is the longest undefended border on the planet.

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: Indigo5

A wall is far from a new idea.
en.wikipedia.org...

As of January 2010, the fence project had been completed from San Diego, California to Yuma, Arizona.[dubious – discuss] From there it continued into Texas and consisted of a fence that was 21 feet (6.4 m) tall and 6 feet (1.8 m) deep in the ground, cemented in a 3-foot (0.91 m)-wide trench with 5000 psi (345 bar; 352 kg/cm²) concrete.

It was abandoned because it was a financial boondoggle. Why is Trump trying to revive it?