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BREAKING NEWS: Emergency Stay Granted - Defeat for Trump's Right Wing Agenda

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posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 12:06 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Indigo5

She's still fired. I guess that argument didn't work for her.

TheRedneck


Sessions is starting in a few days..after thirty years s I doubt she is missing the three days she would have had to deal with an unstable wack jobs EO.


Yep. She was already gone.

Good for her going out by standing for what's right.

No go areas, gang rapes, terror attacks, child rapes, riots, murder, etc, etc, etc

If you stand for what's happened in europe and you want the same here to virtue signal, you stand by what's happening in europe. It is said that you can save ten times as many people if you relocate refugees in the nearby regions, but you'd rather 90~% suffer or die to virtue signal and bring instability and chaos here.





originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TheRedneck
Thanks for asking. Regarding the Constitutionality of the EO, Trump has been given the power to issue them. And the courts and Congress have been given the power to review, alter, or invalidate them. I'll leave that decision up to them.

My point of view on refugees from the Middle East? I think that if terrorists want to get into this country there are more effective ways of doing so. I think that "homegrown" terrorists are a greater threat (both native born and naturalized). I think that actions such as this could well spur these "sleepers" over the edge of radicalization (along any lines) and are thus counterproductive to the stated goal.



The problem here, is that extremists and potential terrorists exceed just those labelled as radical terrorists. Individuals that view the idea of theocracy, and implementing their own radical laws, anyone in favor of honor killings, death for apostasy, death for homosexuals... Anyone with such views is a threat to democracy, and is mentally ill and in need of help.

Bringing a large portion of individuals where a significant fraction has significant mental illness, people who are for the killing of innocent and would murder family members in cold blood. Sorry but that's just not something that can be allowed.




posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 12:08 AM
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a reply to: Xenogears




Bringing a large portion of individuals where a significant fraction has significant mental illness, people who are for the killing of innocent and would murder family members in cold blood. Sorry but that's just not something that can be allowed.

Right. Because that is what has been happening. All them kind have been just streaming into the country. Just look at all the murder and stuff which has been committed by refugees in the US.



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 12:18 AM
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a reply to: Phage

even one attack is to many and we have already had terror attacks in the US from people who come from countries on the EO list who were refugees.

The machete attack in Ohio for instance... Refugee from Somalia.

I think Europe serves as an example.



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 12:21 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra


I think Europe serves as an example.

Sure does.



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 12:22 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

The machete attack in Ohio for instance... Refugee from Somalia.
Timothy McVeigh.



I think Europe serves as an example.

Well, It's easier to get to Europe from the Middle East than it is to North America and the US.

edit on 1/31/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 12:23 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: queenofswords




I imagine under Obama there were many allowed in.
I'm sure you imagine many things. I do to. That doesn't make them real.



Obama's view regarding securing the border seem quite clear. Neither he nor Hillary seemed in favor of dealing adequately with illegal immigrants and securing the border. He can barely dare say radical islamic terrorism, but is giddy to repeat religion of peace time and again.

Obama's america



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 12:24 AM
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a reply to: Xenogears

I thought this was about visa holders and refugees.
You want to keep out Mexicans with visas too?

edit on 1/31/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 12:31 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Xenogears




Bringing a large portion of individuals where a significant fraction has significant mental illness, people who are for the killing of innocent and would murder family members in cold blood. Sorry but that's just not something that can be allowed.

Right. Because that is what has been happening. All them kind have been just streaming into the country. Just look at all the murder and stuff which has been committed by refugees in the US.


In europe there's a known cover up. looking up murders and rapes, and seeing if the perpetrators origin has been covered up would take quite some time.

We do know what's happened in europe, that's what some want for here.

You can't read minds, and already Obama allowed people in from countries where 80~% are in favor of murdering innocents, iirc. What screening are you using when they have permission by their faith to lie about their beliefs to protect their faith. REALITY no screening is good enough, only continuous monitoring after being allowed is the only way to actually tell if they're going to be peaceful or not.



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 12:33 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Xenogears

I thought this was about visa holders and refugees.
You want to keep out Mexicans with visas too?


what mexicans with visas are crossing the borders illegally?



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 12:34 AM
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a reply to: Xenogears

what mexicans with visas are crossing the borders illegally?


None.

And no visa holders from anywhere were. Until Trump said that some were not allowed. Which is what this thread is about.

edit on 1/31/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 12:38 AM
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a reply to: Xenogears


We do know what's happened in europe, that's what some want for here.


Sure seems that way. Why would they want that and who is behind this?



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 01:30 AM
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a reply to: Phage

Not sure what Mcveigh has to do with your comment or my response.

As for Europe yes so why make it easier for them to enter our country? The ban is for 90 / 120 days to implement new vetting procedures. Then it reopens so im not sure what people are bitching about.



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 01:37 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra


Not sure what Mcveigh has to do with your comment or my response.
Homegrown terrorist.



As for Europe yes so why make it easier for them to enter our country?
It's easier to enter the US? Who made it easier? When?



Then it reopens so im not sure what people are bitching about.
That's not exactly what it says.

Upon the date that is 120 days after the date of this order, the Secretary of State shall resume USRAP admissions only for nationals of countries for which the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and the Director of National Intelligence have jointly determined that such additional procedures are adequate to ensure the security and welfare of the United States.

Define "adequate."


edit on 1/31/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 02:22 AM
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a reply to: xuenchen

To get back on my reply about those 7 US denied travelers by the Royal dutch KLM . Six of those came from Iran. And as you now maybe know that Iran has started up their rocket program, probably in retribution of Trumps law banning midle east travelers to the US.

I wouldn't be surprised that Iran deliberately sent those travelers to undermine Trumps law .

Something to find out, if that's the case,because as our news source here says they returned to Iran.

The travelers seemed to be two elderly and scientists the elderly had been granted a visa to travel to the US .Do not know if those scientists also were granted visa's.
edit on 0b25America/ChicagoTue, 31 Jan 2017 02:39:25 -0600vAmerica/ChicagoTue, 31 Jan 2017 02:39:25 -06001 by 0bserver1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 07:43 AM
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a reply to: Phage


Timothy McVeigh

And interesting aspect of that bombing:

When it happened, I happened to have time to studiously watch the immediate coverage. Doing so, I caught a few things that were mentioned and quickly ignored. An employee of the company where McVeigh rented the truck stated that three men rented it: McVeigh, his accomplice (can't remember his name offhand), and an unidentified man described as "Middle Eastern." Some of McVeigh's statements struck me as those of an explosives amateur at the time, not as someone well-knowledgeable in the field... indeed, a fertilizer bomb is very crude. There are numerous materials almost as easy to get which are more concentrated, more reliable, and easier to transport. The detonator used, however, was very sophisticated and unique. A suitcase containing similar detonator was discovered a few days after the bombing in a London airport destined for, if I remember correctly, Saudi Arabia. The person that suitcase belonged to was identified as an Arabic man who had departed from Omaha just after the bombing.

I cannot provide links, as all this information was quickly and quietly 'forgotten' in favor of the anti-militia narrative. I remain personally convinced, however, that McVeigh was helped in his nefarious goals by a Middle-Eastern terrorist.

If so, the problem has been festering far longer than most think.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 09:10 AM
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a reply to: Phoenix



Trump Says Persecuted Christians Will Be Given Priority As Refugees
www1.cbn.com...

Rudy Giuliani Admits Trump’s Executive Order Is A Backdoor Muslim Ban
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Excerpt of former AG Sally Yates letter



My role is different from that of the Office of Legal Counsel (OLC), which, through
administrations of both parties, has reviewed Executive Orders for form and legality before
they are issued. OLC’s review is limited to the narrow question of whether, in OLC’s view, a
proposed Executive Order is lawful on its face and properly drafted. Its review does not take
account of statements made by an administration or it surrogates close in time to the issuance of
an Executive Order that may bear on the order’s purpose.


And importantly, it does not address
whether any policy choice embodied in an Executive Order is wise or just.
Similarly, in litigation, DOJ Civil Division lawyers are charged with advancing
reasonable legal arguments that can be made supporting an Executive Order. But my role as
leader of this institution is different and broader. My responsibility is to ensure that the position
of the Department of Justice is not only legally defensible, but is informed by our best view of
what the law is after consideration of all the facts. In addition, I am responsible for ensuring that
the positions we take in court remain consistent with this institution’s solemn obligation to
always seek justice and stand for what is right.


At present, I am not convinced that the defense of
the Executive Order is consistent with these responsibilities nor am I convinced that the
Executive Order is lawful.

assets.documentcloud.org...

Giuliani and Pres. Trumps public statements on the Executive orders intent are admissible in court challenges.



Trump's order relies on the broad executive powers outlined in Immigration and Nationality Act (or INA), which provides:



"no person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person's race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence."



David Bier, an immigration policy analyst at the libertarian Cato Institute, wrote that "Trump's new policy would run afoul of at least one if not all three of (the) restrictions -- nationality, place of birth, or place of residence -- depending on how it was applied."



Religious test
by showing "preferential treatment" for Christian refugees seeking asylum over Muslims or by seeking to "disfavor a particular religion," the executive order would violate the Establishment Clause.
"The executive order, of course, does not say in express terms that it is favoring Christians and disfavoring Muslims. But Trump is the signatory, and he has said so explicitly," wrote Cole.


www.cnn.com...



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 09:24 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Phage

even one attack is to many and we have already had terror attacks in the US from people who come from countries on the EO list who were refugees.

The machete attack in Ohio for instance... Refugee from Somalia.



Except he WAS NOT from Somalia..
And NOT from any country on Trump's list..
And WAS NOT a refugee...
AND he came to the US 17 years ago.

Your entire statement was a LIE.

Let me know when you plan on stop lying to ATS members and I might respond to a post again.

Or are you just providing "Alternative Facts" ??



Perpetrator
Mohamed Barry was 30 at the time of his death. A native of Guinea in West Africa, he arrived in the U.S. in 2000. At the time of the attack, he was engaged and was in the U.S. legally on a green card. He had worked in computer programming and information technology.

en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 31-1-2017 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: Phage

Semantics, ok use the word potential ahead of terrorist.

Look like many agree that the idea of halting entry will increase domestic terror thus we should keep gate open is in a word - ludicrous.

Whole books have been written on McVeigh ties to Muslim extremists however no has argument that his stated motivation was the executions at Waco.

Maybe you picked wrong boogeyman for domestic example.

I think Trump has got it right to not let radicalized folks in via flow of immigration, refugee status or visa unless and until a way is found to identify the extremists from the group.

On what you label homegrown or domestic terror/extremism - ya we got a self inflicted problem as our open society allow mosque's, madrassa's, training camps , prison groups and open internet to spread a doctrine that ultimately ends up with violence against those not sharing idealology (can't even call it religious )

Seems a big majority of incidents labeled domestic /homegrown have roots from an idea log foreign to this nation.

My view is we don't need any new law, legislation nor programs. What we need are leaders who will actually uphold existing law which we have plenty of, in order to tackle extremists foreign and domestic.



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 09:53 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TheRedneck


My point of view on refugees from the Middle East? I think that if terrorists want to get into this country there are more effective ways of doing so. I think that "homegrown" terrorists are a greater threat (both native born and naturalized). I think that actions such as this could well spur these "sleepers" over the edge of radicalization (along any lines) and are thus counterproductive to the stated goal.



A conspiracist might Hypothesize that Bannon (who apparently drove this EO) is well aware of and agrees with the above.

That the EO makes us no safer from foreign threat, plays into the hands of ISIS rhetoric and might encourage "homegrown" lone wolves here in the USA to act.

If those things came to pass...an uptick in terrorist attacks on the homeland by lone-wolf natives...it would afford the Trump admin. some public sympathy to go forward with a more Orwellian security crackdown at large here in the USA as well as the specifically targeted oppression aimed at native US Muslims that might have otherwise been unpalatable to the public.

Every government over-reach needs a public that is in fear.

Trump has spent the past year telling the people to be afraid...now he needs to give them some real world examples to move forward.



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: Indigo5

Again I point out the false "no solution, is the solution" kind of thinking that has led to this needing vigorous action.

Had other President's done their duty we would not need strong action.

The entire ideology of these people are anethema to our customs and way of life.

Really can't call it homegrown or domestic when perp are using foreign doctrine called Islam to justify butchery and rape. I could care less that they were here 20, 10, 5 or 1 year the doctrine is foreign based and against our republican form of government. A form of government these folks have learned to manipulate.







 
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