WAR: Iraq Votes: Defiant Iraqis Vote in Their Millions Despite Bombs

Well, while all of you are so sure this is a wonderful thing for Iraqis, I am not so sold. First of all, if I just skip over the fact that this was an unjust war to begin with, the administration could have at least provided more of a learning period for the Iraqis prior to the vote. This would have been to inform themselves of who they were voting for, and why, and not just voting for their religiously affiliated leader.

Many Iraqis do not understand whether they are voting for just a president, a national assembly, or both. To hold the election this early basically just reinforced religious ties amongst the three major factions: shiite muslim arabs (60%), sunni muslim arabs (20%) and the kurds in the north (20%). And in fact, has created more division amongst them, as the top candidates basically put up religious slogans as a call to their respective followers. This was not about political agendas and values, the way it is here in the States. It is also reported that the vast majority of the running candidates were not even on the ballots, due to fears that many would be assassinated. Given these conditions, and as most likely predicted by our administration, it will not be any big surprise who will win.

There was not enough time for political agendas to be laid out by the candidates, for people to assess them, and to come to some form of intelligent decision on who they were voting for and why. And much of this had to do with sheer lack of security, and the inability of most of the candidates to reach out to prospective voters to define their agendas. And then there is also the issue of the sunnis, who were largely at war with the coalition, and which represent about 20% of the population. Will they be adecuately represented in at least the national assembly, or will they be oppressed into oblivion?

For any of you thinking that this election is anything like what US elections are, you are sorely mistaken. It will take years before Iraqis as a whole warm up to this idea, and fully understand the entire process. And that's IF they can manage to quell the insurgency and election boycotts, even after the coalition has left. But I will add that the pressure on the coalition to leave may be so great, that they may not have had much of a choice in the time factor.

Originally posted by soficrow

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
The American military is there. So is the Iraqi police force.

Now THAT'S some real independent monitoring.

As I said, if someone pointed a gun at my head, I would vote too. This is basically what I said in my essay "The Empire Never Needed" they first invade sovereign countries under false pretexts and then create the illusion of freedom by setting up puppet governments, while they pull the strings. US is example of this, so I am not surprised Americans can't see through the charade(though it is obvious) they can't even see through their own.

We can see how transparent these elections are:

1. They have been forced by Americas
2. The candidates have been selected by American approval(all wins)
3. The country is infested with foreign military troops and torn apart by war
4. The people have little to no knowledge about the candidates
5. There is already evidence of foulplay going on in vote-counts
6. They are staged by a country that has a history of foul play in electiions.

What absolute garbage and crap the people are being fed. It's a really sad joke, and anyone who wants to believe this is a living example of state brainwashing. I personally can't believe humans can be so stupid, something is going on. It's in their water.... I am glad I drink juice!

LONDON (AFP) - The Press unanimously hailed turnout at Iraq's historic elections as opening the road to peace in the conflict battered country.

The Daily Telegraph, the Financial Times, The Guardian and The Independent all said on their front pages that Iraqi voters had shown defiance to insurgents by voting.

"The courage of Iraq's voters has opened a path to peace," The Times said, saying turnout had been high enough to give the election legitimacy.
Press hails Iraqi voters' defiance

To all those who said that Iraq can not be free, I say tell that to the Iraqis.
To those of you who feel this electon has no merit, tell that to the iraquis.
yesterday I watched an old woman being carried to the polls in a wheelbarrow, I watched a man on crutches limp torwards the polling station, I heard a man who had lost his leg to an insurgent bomb say that even if he had had to crwl he would have to get to the polling station. After they had voted I watched as these same people and millions more danced and cheered in jubilation. In spite of insurgent promises to turn the elections into a bloodbathe they came, in spite of having to dip thier fingers in indellible ink, thus marking themselves as enemies of the insurgency they came, in spite of the violence and terror which has held thier lives hostage they came. The people of Iraq joined thier voces together and as one proclaimed to all who have the ears to listen, that they nwould not be held hostage by terror any longer. They joined hands and together took hold of thier destiny. In a country where casting a vote carries the threat of a death sentance by insurgent bombs and beheadings they voted in greater numbers than any US election in over 50 years. Though thier grasp on thier future is tenuos at best, the grabbed on with all thier strength, and freedom once grasped, even if only by the fingernails, is not easily let go. The true warriors of Iraq, the women, the men, the aged and infirm, marched against the terrorists in thier midst wth nothing more than thier hope as armor and thier voices as thier only weapon. The cries of triumph were audible in every country around the world. As the people of iraq danced in the streets did the likes of Al zarqawi feel the cold hand of death rest on thier shoulder, did they see the portents and omens of thier own doom? I think they did.
The electon was a sham you say? Nothing more than a farce staged by the US to cement thier control of Iraq you say?
tell that to the iraquis

Well put. There was an AP picture of this huge group treking to the nearest polling place. Some were in wheelchairs, some in carts, etc. Why? to vote.

How exactly can you Indigo say that the winners are US backed? The Al-Sistani slate will no doubt carry the day and Kurd turnout is heavy.

The rhetoric and the nay sayers is much the same just a bit different. No doubt watched with glee hoping for disaster and now we get to deal with the sour grapes.

Fred, who selected the candidates - was it the people? They don't even know who they are.

As for the wonderful, glowing reports coming out of Iraq for the people? Yeah, and whose reporting it, the most unbiased and independent western media sources right? The same media that were cheering on the war? The same media that has lied to the people in the previous gulf war too?

What you see on CNN, ABC, BBC, is where they tell the camera man to point.

It's plain as day what is happening in Iraq. The only people who cannot see this are those who've got their heads stuck in the ground. Do you think the people really care about elections? They care more about their lives.

These people are being forced by gun point to do things. It's pretty darn obvious, especially considering the news that leaked out of shoot-to-kill orders in Fulluja to people who disobey biometric measures. Get your heads out of the grounds and face reality.

[edit on 31-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

How do you force what looks like 8 million people at gunpoint? :shk:

She does not sound like she was forced:

"Now I feel that Saddam is really gone," said Fatima Ibrahim, smiling as she headed home after voting in Irbil, in the Kurdish northern region. She was 14 and a bride of just three months when her husband, father and brother were rounded up in a campaign of ethnic cleansing under Saddam. None have ever been found.

Vote

Originally posted by FredT
How do you force what looks like 8 million people at gunpoint?

You do this, you unleash tens of thousands of troops armed with machine guns around the city and dozens of tanks, and then "inform" people about elections. If someone refuses, you shoot them. The other people come out of their homes in droves, because non-compliance means death or bad things will happen. Meanwhile, another guy is giving them false assurances of "freedom" and buttering them up.

Now all of those conditions are true and others:

1. There are tens of thousands of troops and dozens of tanks
2. There are thousands of cases of civilian fatality
3. There are hundreds of cases of torture of civilians
4. There are orders of shoot-to-kill in Fulluja for people who disobey
5. There is a propoganda war being fought to convince Iraqi people, Americans are good guys.

Look, let's put it this place, as rebellious as I am, even I would vote. I can see through this charade, and really, it is so obvious, that if anyone had eyes, ears and half a brain, they would see it too.

Let's put this into perspective for you:

A bunch of terrorists invade your state, saying you are oppressed by the American government. Some of you even agree that the American government is oppressing you and some of you don't like Bush. The terrorists interview all of the people who don't like Bush and broadcast it back home. Then, the terrorists hear that there are insurgents and people fighting against the terrorists from within the state. They report this back home, saying that they must stay longer to stop the insurgency. A few weeks go by and there is constant war, thousands of innocent people die in the cross fire, mostly due to terrorists firing at people, thinking they are insurgents. The terrorists then say to the residents that they will have independent elections for the state. People come out in droves to vote. They broadcast this back home.

This is what people back home saw:

1. The Americans of the state are oppressed
2. The Americans want to get rid of Bush
3. The terrorists help give them freedom
4. Americans insurgents don't want the people to have freedom
5. The American people are given a chance for democracy
6. Droves of Americans vote

Meanwhile, at home, in the terrorist version of ATS, the people are discussing the beautiful future that awaits the Americans, and there are peope like me who are decrying the elections as a hoax. But the people say "No, look at all those Americans happily voting" and they even quote one "I am glad I don't have to deal with Bush anymore"

indigo there were two threats made in reference to elections.
Zarqawi threatened a bloodbath if the people did vote.
Al sistani threatened iraqi's would go to hell if they did not.
Neither threat was made by the US.
And if you do beleve the iraqi's were "forced to vote by the US at gunpoint" Why did they cheer and dance?

Where the hell are all those insurgents now? There must be thousands more according to all of those that say "American has bred MORE of them"...
YET
On THE DAY that a majority of the people of Iraq, risked their lives to vote for their government...
LITTLE of the chaos and destruction that al-zacowi was predicting came true....

Im proud of those that took the risk and voted in Iraq....you are putting people here in the west that said you couldnt handle it to shame.
Youve shown the WORLD your bravery and resolve...other muslim nations can see you embracing democracy while being muslim...go figure.

The answer to Where are all the insurgents is likley a combo of things, including the brilliant idea to halt ALL vehicle traffic!!! (damn that truck bomb is going to be hard to use if its the only one on the road eh?)

Plus youve got to think that with several top zaccowi aids in custody, and the squeezing of falluja, that it seems that the insurgents are NOT able to live up to their rhetoric....the preassure that is being applied to them seems to be working.
And the Iraqi people embraced it!!!

Another answer to where are all the insurgents would be that it would probably be greatly frowned upon by islamist religious leaders to attack (suicide bomb) truely innocent groups of muslim citizens while they went out and voted....That act would have NOT sit well with moderate muslims, and i dont think the hard liners are to wild about losing MORE muslim minds because of more attacks against muslims by muslims.

Not only did Iraqi have a generally successful election, but they have shown that there is a good chance for success now that they have shown the world their resolve...and themselves!

Way toooo much Koolaid

Simple question Indigo_Child:
Seeing as how you have twisted "terrorism" to suite your needs, have you found any pictures to back your assertion that the Iraqis had guns pointed at their collective heads and were made to vote by the US and Coalition?

I've found and seen pictures and videos of people laughing, smiling, crying in happiness, hugging, kissing, embracing their children, lines of people waiting to vote, men and women crying over those that were killed while freely trying to vote, and of course, pictures and videos of Blue-tipped fingers raised high and proudly. Care to provide just one that shows what you seem to have indicated?

You can spew and spew for all I care, but you are nothing but a full-fledged distractor who has no real concept of what 'freedom' is, cause if you did, you'd be looking at those videos and pictures with tears in your own eyes or happiness in your heart. You can deny all you wish, but there is no denying freedom and the ability to control ones own future, and in the case of those Iraqis, the course of their own country. Something that no matter how you try to downplay and minimize, was freely taken by roughly the same percentage of eligible voters as compared to the same percent in the US that voted in the 2004 presidential election. The difference, for which you cannot fanthom, was that 35+ people were killed for seeking the right and ability to vote. How sad that you have become so blind in your continued hatred.

Besides, obviously and apparently, your vote was cast yesterday, wasn't it? I'd wager it was for Zarqawi and his continued efforts to kill innocent Iraqis for seeking the concepts of freedom and a free, democratic, and secular country. What say you?





seekerof

[edit on 31-1-2005 by Seekerof]

Seekeroff, it appears everytime your own logic is used against you, it means "twisting" If you were
honest with yourself and others, you would know what it really means. Anyhow, you talk about "happy" "cheering" Iraqis. You know before
the war, they were happy and cheering too. Let's look at those who CNN, ABC and BBC don't show:









I am going to leave this post at that(though I have an idea for a topic now) and let them speak volumes to you. Unfortunately, it will fall on deaf ears.

[edit on 31-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Don't worry Indigo Child I can tell you are almost in tears at the thought of thousands not being slaughtered at the hands of the heroic freedom fighters.

Cheer up, I am sure they will kidnap and behead a few people that have the dye on their fingers. Its pathetic that the best you can come up with is "how many of them are Satanists"

I did not want to go into Iraq and think the Bush Administration has fumbled the ball at almost every turn ......BUT.......

I am very happy for the people of Iraq, you can see the jubilation on the faces of the voters. It seems like you could come out of "Dale Dribble Land" long enough to feel happy for these obviously happy people who, despite the threat of the "heroic freedom fighters" to make the streets flow with blood and despite you and others disappointment that they didn't, came out to try to take control of their lives for the first time.

Now if we could just tie this up with a realistic withdrawal time plan I think this mess might turn out successful IN SPITE of itself

Simply continuing to deny your brand of ignorance

as posted by Indigo_Child
I am going to leave this post at that(though I have an idea for a topic now) and let them speak volumes to you. Unfortunately, it will fall on deaf ears.

I hear ya. Try just a few of these on for size, k? Then maybe what I have quoted you saying will sink in. It's like looking at yourself in the mirror kind of thang, you know what I mean?







Keep talking Indigo_Child, the more you do, the more you simply show your true Aryan colors.



seekerof

[edit on 31-1-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Amuk

Now if we could just tie this up with a realistic withdrawal time plan I think this mess might turn out successful IN SPITE of itself

...and there's the rub. If everyone - Republican and Democrat - does not support the fiction that the election was just great and exactly what democratic elections should be, then we're stuck there for another $8 or 10 trillion tax dollars worth of military monitoring...

TrueAmerican says it well at the top of this page...

But in the spirit of compromise, I will agree that the Iraqi election was a necessary first step...





[edit on 31-1-2005 by soficrow]

Originally posted by soficrow
But in the spirit of compromise, I will agree that the Iraqi election was a necessary first step...

It seems like most could agree with this. I am not a Bush supporter by a long shot but the fact of the matter is we are NOT LEAVING till a government is in place, nor should we. I just pray for the matter to be wraped up as quickly and as peacefully as possible

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

Heck, even I would vote if someone put a gun to my head!

That was such a naive and foolish thing to post.

If you had been paying attention to anything going on in the real world, you would understand that no one was forcing the Iraqis to vote. The gun you mentioned was in the hands of the terrorists who were threatening people if they DID vote.

This was historic. On Sunday I found it verry telling that all the Bush-hating left could muster in response was Kerry saying that the election should not be "over-hyped" - what ever that means. And liberal partisan Alan Colmes was asking one of his guests if it wasn't OK to say you liked the elections, but didn't like the way the Iraqis got to be able to even have elections. For all you sportsfans, that's just like telling the NFL quarterback in the SuperBowl, "Thanks for the touchdown, but we wanted you to score by running the ball instead of throwing a pass!".

That is sooooo weak, and another sign that the libs are now running on empty philosophically.

Unheard of in modern times.....Afgahanistan, Iraq, the PLO, elections......

bad, bad news for the liberals on this site, bad news......

freedom is on the march in Arabia, HAHAHA,

cry, spit, curse Bush, yell at the top of your lungs it's a conspiracy,

truth is, the Iraqi's voted, in an election the naysayers and left wing liberal knuckleheads said would be a bloodbath,

HAHA, appears as though the "insurgents" have failed to instill fear into the brave, true "patriots" of Iraq......

You know, I live in Chicago. The front page had a large caption saying essensially (don't have the paper here at work) Despite 44 killed, Iraqis come out in numbers to vote. 44 deaths in a country where Baghdad has about 150% the population of Chicago. Will we see headlines like this in the future:

"Despite 3 people murdered in chicago, people come to work"

ONLY 44 PEOPLE WERE KILLED IN A WAR TORN COUNTRY ON THE DAY BEING HERALDED BY MANY NEWS MEDIUMS AS THE BEGINNING OF A CIVIL WAR. If you don't see this bias, you're not denying your ignorance.