It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Destroy Socialism. No, Bernie isn't your savior

page: 5
17
<< 2  3  4   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 29 2017 @ 10:24 AM
link   

originally posted by: flice
a reply to: FauxMulder

Actually they are trying to fix the economy now by suggesting the exact same thing. We had "# nights" where we could send our kids in kindergarden during the nighttime so the parents could have some cosy time in the hope that birthrates would go up... I mean come on!!


LMAO!



One thing I never understood; it's perfectly clear now that the economy goes up and down. It really should be plain knowledge by now. But why the hell are states and governments so fast to go on a spending spree when things are good, instead of saving up for when things are bad.
Society really doesn't need those rollercoaster peaks and valleys. Cut off the top and fill the bottom. Balance.


This is true of Governments everywhere. I know some states here in the US are pretty good with it and have a large surplus while others have huge debt.



I know that the US might not work as such with your huge population. But this is where I think the states should be more like small states instead. A state like Colorado is pretty much 1:1 with Denmark in basically all aspects.
Imagine if they could run the same system for Coloradians and them alone. I bet it would work... but it would most likley require a detatchment from the republic.


I've always been a huge believer in States being more in control and the Federal government being more of a referee. In this way you can see what works in some states and what doesn't in others. Its like 50 individual state experiments. And this is the way our government was set up by the founders, however over the years the feds have grown and grown. The federalist papers spell this all out in great detail. Take Obamacare for example, they modeled it after Massachusetts health care which kind of works well for that state, but in my and many other peoples opinions it is a disaster when applied to the country as a whole. Some states are seeing 100% increase in premiums.



If anything, the biggest threat to socialism is not socialism itself, but the fact that there are always idiots who want more then others, who thinks that they NEED to have 2 houses and NEED 2-3 cars. As long as people like this exist there will never be balance in a way where it helps as many people as possible.


I think this is human nature, and wanting something extra like another house or 2-3 cars isn't a bad thing, as long as you don't expect other people to pay for it.



In a perfect world, The Venus Project is king.


I've never heard of that, I'll check it out. Though, I'm sure if socialist like it, I most certainly will not lol






posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 04:03 AM
link   
The economy goes up and down but the trend line is upward. That means it requires more resources to maintain that growth. That's not possible given the simple fact that the planet is limited.



posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 06:04 AM
link   
a reply to: FauxMulder

What a load of twaddle and nonsense. Go tell that to the countries that have successfully implemented "socialism" - you know the ones with the better education, healthcare etc etc.

What the US has now is people who cannot afford to see a doctor and children who rate amongst the lowest educated in the world. How's your lack of socialism working out for you?



posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 08:00 AM
link   
a reply to: Kryties

I doubt you read the OP or the thread as what you mentioned has already been talked about more than once. The US is not among the lowest in the world that's a lie. Currently ranked 17 that's far from the bottom. Your view of the Nordic model is wrong just like Bernie. That's why he was rebuked by Denmarks PM.


The Danes apparently have grown weary of Sen. Bernie Sanders insulting their country. Denmark is not a socialist nation, says its prime minister. It has a “market economy.”

Sanders, the Democratic presidential candidate who calls himself a socialist, has used Denmark as the example of the socialist utopia he wants to create in America. During the Democrats’ first debate last month, he said “we should look to countries like Denmark, like Sweden and Norway, and learn from what they have accomplished for their working people.”

While speaking at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, the center-right Danish Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen said he was aware “that some people in the U.S. associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism.”

“Therefore,” he said, “I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy.”


Furthermore you view of how they implemented and how successful they are is wrong too.


In the century from 1850–1950, the population doubled and real Swedish incomes multiplied nearly tenfold. Despite the almost non-existence of a welfare state or any major state control of economic sectors, by 1950 Sweden was the fourth richest nation in the world. Sweden’s extraordinary growth during that century rivaled even that of the United States (Sweden was not a participant in the two World Wars). As a matter of fact, capital formation and wealth creation proved so abundant in Sweden during the global depression of the 1930s that even social democrats in the legislature practiced a form of salutary neglect to ensure the prosperity would continue. As with any other country, Sweden’s impressive capital stock was built by entrepreneurs operating in a free market system.

Big business looking for government protection worked alongside ambitious politicians and union leaders to force Sweden into adopting socialist policies in the decades following its impressive growth. Over time, government spending more than doubled and taxes in certain sectors were doubled or even tripled. Despite these calamitous changes, by 1970, the OECD still ranked Sweden as the fourth richest nation in the world. However, by 2000 Sweden sank to number fourteen. Dr. Per Bylund from Oklahoma State University has previously pointed out that from 1950–2005, Sweden did not add one net private sector job.

Sweden has managed to live comfortably for decades despite its many heavy-handed socialist policies only because so much capital stock was created in the decades prior (not to mention a sane monetary policy). Yet this capital consumption is eroding Sweden’s wealth.

In 2007, Professor Mark J. Perry from George Mason University pointed out that if Sweden were to be admitted as a 51st state to the Union, it would be the poorest state in terms of unemployment and median household income. Yes, even poorer than Mississippi. In fact Sweden’s current welfare state suppresses household incomes so effectively for Swedes that a 2012 IEA study found that American Swedes have roughly the same unemployment rate as Swedes in Sweden yet earn, on average, 53 percent more annually.

In recent years, Swedish lawmakers have begun slowly privatizing chunks of their socialized sectors such as healthcare, social security, and education. Last year, Reason magazine pointed out that private health insurance has exploded in a country where cancer patients may wait up to a year for treatment in the state-run system. This trend has grown. Sweden, furthermore, has begun outsourcing education to private providers and seen not only a reduction of costs but an increase in parent satisfaction and learning outcomes for graduates.



posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 08:09 AM
link   

originally posted by: Puppylove
Capitalism is no savior either. By it's very nature when it comes into conflict, profit will always win over what's actual better for humanity.

This is true. Usually in order to get capitalism to choose the humanity choice, you have to steer company profits in a direction that rewards the humanity choice. This usually requires government intervention.



posted on Feb, 10 2017 @ 09:05 AM
link   
a reply to: FauxMulder

It was also pointed out that Denmark's market economy is still a flavor with the word "social" in it.

I see you also quoted from mises.org but didn't provide a link. That source explains the slant of the article and like I said earlier, nothing about the current model even comes close to the system those at mises.org are trying to sell.

How Modern Sweden Profits from the Success of Its Free-Market History


edit on 10-2-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics
 
17
<< 2  3  4   >>

log in

join