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Question For Those Opposed To Trump's Wall

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posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: DomTullipso

I oppose the wall because, historically speaking, walls may keep people in just as well as they keep people out. There is a better way. This may sound controversial, but I would designate the situation as a national security threat, and warn Mexico that their support for illegal immigration constituted a concerted effort to invade the sovereign nation of the United States. The purposeful invasion of another nation is an act of war under international law.




posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: DomTullipso

I don' t give a crap if the wall is built or not. As long
as Hillary isn't President, I'm good. Then again anyone opposed prolly already has
a wall around their house.



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 01:59 PM
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originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: DomTullipso

I don' t give a crap if the wall is built or not. As long
as Hillary isn't President, I'm good. Then again anyone opposed prolly already has
a wall around their house.




randy
you know that's not okay



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 02:14 PM
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So -- this post really caught my attention, and it set me off this morning to design my own border barrier plan, which I will post in some later thread.

I joined up specifically to reply here. (This is only post #1 for me, so I guess I have 4 more posts to go before I can post what I think is a reasonable and serious design for this wall.)

I think people have a problem with this wall because they don't have a clear concept of what it is, what it can be, how much it will really cost, what good can result.

We are talking about really big dollars here. You lose track of all those zeros, and lose sight of what we can accomplish with this vast amount of money if we do things correctly.

For those who HATE this wall (and I sympathize with you in many ways, basically because of all the noise in the media that keep underscoring NOTHING but problems -- what else is one to think?) -- those of you in doubt have to consider that this is just an engineering project. It can be done humanely.It can permit us to grow in new and unexplored directions. It does not have to be a waste of time and money. It can have a lot of cool benefits and side-effects.

From my viewpoint, this would be a great engineering project that could really help out both the US and Mexico in a number of ways, if done correctly.

But -- I have four more posts to go here before I can post my design.

BTW -- nice to be here, I think.



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 02:24 PM
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I wonder why nobody is talking about the Canadian / US border.




This area is a haven for smugglers and cross-border criminal organizations. Each year, Border Patrol agents catch hundreds of drug smugglers and human traffickers who use the sparsely populated and heavily wooded areas along the Vermont-Canada border to bypass the agents, cameras, sensors and other electronic devices that the Department of Homeland Security has installed to make up for the lack of personnel.


Feels like the border to Mexico is just a scapegoat while drugs continue to flood the United States through Canada. I'm pretty sure the Hells Angels, which run a 1 billion dollar business in Quebec, are pretty stoked about all this attention the Mexican border gets.



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

the cost to "maintain" the illegals who are here is incalculable, the cost to maintain a wall can be reasonably calculated.





And what would that 'cost' do to stop the number of illegal Russians? Ever been to Tenessee? They're everywhere.

Or do we only care about keeping the brown immigrants out?



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 05:57 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: neformore

I miss reason and compassion

It's hard to believe how far we've fallen

Uhh, it's always been like this. The only thing that's "fallen" is the temporary mask they were wearing.



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 06:02 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

correct....we all know that if we allow ourselves to be educated with neutral facts we will prevail. We will know what to teach our precious children. And as a specie, we will do better; we will move forward.
Even though we know that:


We still have to keep arguing. We are compelled. I'm tired. But there will never be peace unless we continue pushing and talking and saying and insisting.

edit on 1/28/2017 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 08:06 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

The ugliness has always been there - agreed. Our differences today are the same - yes

I still see a kind of decay in civility - and in our thinking. The kinds of thing that keeps society functional. That clip of Bush Senior - no matter how much I disliked him or disagreed with him - his words in that clip are not something any member of the right could say openly in front of an audience now. It's too soft. What he said was not demented - that was a reasonable opinion

If we agree that it's better to know the worst - then this past year must have been better. All we hear now is the unvarnished worst - which in the past few days we've come to see as action as a result of that truth

I know it's still ugly - but that mask was at least keeping us from going over the edge. Being unable to recognize the difference is what's killing us now



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 08:07 PM
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Drugs are rarely run over the border. They are run under the border, with submarines, with tunnels, with planes.. a wall isn't going to do squat for the drug issues. Drugs.. make a lot of money. You seriously think drug cartels are going to have an issue figuring out ways around this idiotic wall?

So regarding the illegal aliens.. it's funny how it's perfectly ok if they are here, if providing cheap labor. Will Trump force all the illegals living in squalor to drive hours to Napa to farm grapes for the multi billion dollar wine industry, out of the country? Nope. Will he take on the largest super-stores, and kick out the illegals picking tomatoes in Florida for 4 cents a bushel, earning laughable wages? Nope. Do you actually understand the "illegal problem?" I doubt it.

Trump is simply trying to enclose our country.. in what is a now a world economy, a world civilization. He thinks putting the U.S. in a jar is the fix for all our issues. Trump is an idiot.



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 08:08 PM
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a reply to: DomTullipso

Because a majority of undocumented immigrants arrive by plane or boat.



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 08:08 PM
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originally posted by: fleabit
Drugs are rarely run over the border. They are run under the border, with submarines, with tunnels, with planes.. a wall isn't going to do squat for the drug issues. Drugs.. make a lot of money. You seriously think drug cartels are going to have an issue figuring out ways around this idiotic wall?



And now we have drones.



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 08:18 PM
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originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
As a Trump supporter, I could care less if he built the wall. I'd rather it be like the security system Area 51/Groom Lake has to be honest. Nobody crosses into that territory without detection.



Good point, and I have an idea:

In order to "put Americans back to work," we should put an American with a rifle every 100 feet along the entirety of the southern (and northern, for optimal security) border with orders to shoot to kill.

For the US-Mexico Border, that's 100,000 people with jobs (though some might do it for fun).

For the US-Canadian border, that's 470,000 people with jobs.

Putting Americans to work AND securing our borders. Win-win, eh?



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 08:20 PM
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originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
As a Trump supporter, I could care less if he built the wall. I'd rather it be like the security system Area 51/Groom Lake has to be honest. Nobody crosses into that territory without detection.



Good point, and I have an idea:

In order to "put Americans back to work," we should put an American with a rifle every 100 feet along the entirety of the southern (and northern, for optimal security) border with orders to shoot to kill.


Oh look, you're one of the Shoot to Kill people.

Yes, of course, let's just build manned towers with machine guns.



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 08:21 PM
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I'm not at all opposed to the wall as a concept, but I do think there might be better places to invest that money that address the problem more effectively.

Perhaps the biggest issue is increasing the quality of life in Mexico's troubles areas. I think it becomes our problem when it precipitates mass movement of people into our nation. It wouldn't impact those that are getting into our nation for other reasons, but if we can reduce the sheer volume, everything else we do will become that much easier to accomplish. The power that cartels wield is probably the easiest to target, since we have directly enabled their ascent.

Like so many issues, the wall seems like a band aid on a gaping wound. Addressing some of the core issues that cause the situation may be a better place to start. It may require true ingenuity and cleverness, but it is could go much, much further in actually solving the problem.



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 08:27 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
As a Trump supporter, I could care less if he built the wall. I'd rather it be like the security system Area 51/Groom Lake has to be honest. Nobody crosses into that territory without detection.



Good point, and I have an idea:

In order to "put Americans back to work," we should put an American with a rifle every 100 feet along the entirety of the southern (and northern, for optimal security) border with orders to shoot to kill.


Oh look, you're one of the Shoot to Kill people.

Yes, of course, let's just build manned towers with machine guns.


Do you actually think I was serious in that post?

smh, calm down.



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 08:28 PM
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It's expensive. Mexico is paying for the wall real heavy with our taxes.

If it was free, sure, but it's not and anyone that disagrees is delusional.

Also foreign policy simply works better. When Obama made Green Cards legal to be mailed, illegal immigration reduced dramatically because being 'illegal' wasn't a legitimate first step to being American.

It's like you people forgot how this used to work. People would illegally walk to Phoenix and register to be a citizen on an honor system. Most of you that were angry about immigration pre-Obama were literally angry at an honor system.
edit on 28-1-2017 by ROBOTNINJADRAGON because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 10:39 PM
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a reply to: DomTullipso

China has a wall you can see from space sooo,
whatz a big deal?



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 10:42 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Oh alright Buzz you got me again.



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 10:46 PM
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originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
As a Trump supporter, I could care less if he built the wall. I'd rather it be like the security system Area 51/Groom Lake has to be honest. Nobody crosses into that territory without detection.



Good point, and I have an idea:

In order to "put Americans back to work," we should put an American with a rifle every 100 feet along the entirety of the southern (and northern, for optimal security) border with orders to shoot to kill.


Oh look, you're one of the Shoot to Kill people.

Yes, of course, let's just build manned towers with machine guns.


Do you actually think I was serious in that post?

smh, calm down.


You might not be, but there are some here who are.



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