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Question For Those Opposed To Trump's Wall

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posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:03 PM
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a reply to: DomTullipso

Usually if neighbors want to be cordial and share a good relationship, they usually share in the cost of the fence...

I would give my portion so to enable a healthy relationship.





posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:03 PM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Or we could work together to come up with a better solution instead of ramming through an idiotic and half-assed measure. Or did you like the way the ACA ended up?


That's been the placation for decades now. Look how far that's brought things along.

Obama deporting more illegals than ever and not getting credit for it? Illegal entry in the country is decreasing and has been on the decline for a few years now?



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
a reply to: Annee

It actually started in 1994 under Clinton.




The barriers were built from 1994 as part of three larger "Operations" to taper transportation of illegal drugs manufactured in Latin America and immigration: Operation Gatekeeper in California, Operation Hold-the-Line[4] in Texas, and Operation Safeguard[5] in Arizona.

en.m.wikipedia.org...–United_States_barrier



Border Control: Revised Strategy Is Showing Some Positive Results

(Letter Report, 12/29/94, GAO/GGD-95-30).
www.druglibrary.org...

Redo your research.


Ah, it makes sense now. Leave it to the Clinton's lifelong familial and oligarchal pals Trump finish in their projects.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:06 PM
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originally posted by: RomeByFire

Too many conservatives purposefully leave this little fact out or ignore it.


Too many liberals expect that anyone and everyone that doesn't agree with them (no matter how blatantly insane a topic goes) must be conservatives.

False Dichotomy.

So did Obama's playing around with the border have any impact on crime, drugs, etc?

And what was that thread I saw about 6 months back, it came out he was paying the sanctuary cities like hundreds of billions of dollars to be sanctuary cities. It was even more disturbing than that the way I remember it. I say use that money to build The Wall.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:07 PM
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If illegals are really "illegal" , how can they work, get drivers licenses, make it to sanctuary cities.
Sanctuary cities.....

If the above has been an ongoing thing, the very word "illegal" hasn't been figured out yet.

If laws cannot be enforced, how will a wall work.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:07 PM
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Gee I don't know. How about 2,000 border agents... 1 per mile @ $50,000 per year. That would be $100m per year. We could pay them for 150 years if the wall 'only' cost $15B. And, unlike The Wall, they'd be buying stuff and paying taxes and not unemployed. And rather than having to pay out $15B it would be amortized over 150yrs more than making-up for equipment and benefit expenses. The wall is a ridiculous boondoggle. Can't wait to see who gets the contract. Oh wait. Gag order.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: jtma508
Gee I don't know. How about 2,000 border agents... 1 per mile @ $50,000 per year. That would be $100m per year. We could pay them for 150 years if the wall 'only' cost $15B. And, unlike The Wall, they'd be buying stuff and paying taxes and not unemployed. And rather than having to pay out $15B it would be amortized over 150yrs more than making-up for equipment and benefit expenses. The wall is a ridiculous boondoggle. Can't wait to see who gets the contract. Oh wait. Gag order.


So each border agent would be required to work 24/7 using your plan. This also doesn't account for medical insurance, security clearances if required, training, equipment for each border agent, vehicle for each border agent, etc.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: LumenImagoDei
Because it's pointless. Those who want in bad enough will get in whether it be by boat, by tunnel, by ladder, by way of temporary visa, etc. All this wall will be is a waste of taxpayer money, both to build it and to man it.


so you admit it will be effective.

those who don`t want to get in badly enough will see the wall and go back home, whereas now those who don`t want to get in badly enough can still just walk across the border and have no worries about being caught and deported because they can just walk back in again.
edit on 27-1-2017 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

the cost to "maintain" the illegals who are here is incalculable, the cost to maintain a wall can be reasonably calculated.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: DomTullipso

LOL What kind of questions are those? Your immediate assumptions are that it's "drug dealers and illegals" going back and forth across the border. If you want serious responses, why don't you frame the situation honestly? Though for the record, you act as if Americans don't love drugs, drug dealers, a cheap labor pool, and other cartel-related products. Who do you think are buying those products and services here?

Either way, the Trump Wall does nothing to prevent undocumented workers, which mostly consist of people who:
1) arrived here legally but overstayed their work visas; or
2) came on tourist visas or under one of our Visa-less programs but decided to work here (which violates the tourist visa or tourist designation).

The Trump Wall also does nothing to prevent corporations, contractors, temp services, or individuals from hiring undocumented workers in the first place. There would be no illegal workers here if people here weren't hiring them or purchasing their goods and services. It's a basic supply & demand issue. Americans consistently demand cheaper labor and illegal goods and services, so our authorities and their allied organized crime operations gladly deliver them (like our fed govt's alliance w/the Sinaloa Cartel).

That stupid wall also does nothing to hinder the human trafficking system, which largely consists of immigrants who pay good money to traveling agencies and employment agencies in their home regions only to find out the agencies are part of a trafficking ring. Once the immigrants arrive here (from any of our borders, ports, or airports), their documentation may be confiscated by the traffickers until they work off their debts in illegal markets. Or they arrive and find out their documentation is fraudulent altogether, meaning the agencies ripped them off & they're stuck here w/no legit documentation.

Or they arrive then find out that they received a lower classification visa than they one they paid for, meaning they're legally not allowed to do the work they're contracted to do. As in, they paid their agency good money in return for long term job placement at a company here. But when they arrive, they find out the work visa they received is either fake, a work visa for an unrelated firm or industry, or simply a tourist visa. Either way, they're stuck here now, have debts to pay off to the agency, and can't report it to our law enforcement because they'll simply get deported. Of course, they're still in debt w/the corrupt agency back home so they can't afford to return empty handed.

But of course, all people ever talk about is "durr hurr hurr Illegals, jobs, and drug mules!". And even though most politicians and businesses know the real story, they keep deliberately misleading the public so they can keep cashing in on people's ignorance & biases.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:24 PM
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originally posted by: damwel
a reply to: DomTullipso

I'm against it because it's unrealistic. It's a pipe dream. I don't want to pay for it either and no matter what they do they cost of it is gonna come back to the consumer through higher prices on goods or something. They just dig deeper tunnels, some of them are already underground highways. Do you know how long the border is? How far out in the ocean is it going to go so they don't swim around it? It's just unrealistic and he said it to get votes of people to ignorant to know it can't be done. Now he has to do it.



I'm a Trump supporter and support everything he wants to do. I do think this wall will be easily countered with underground tunnels. ladders lol etc. I was at first for the wall but now I'm kinda thinking its a waste of money.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:25 PM
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originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: Tardacus
all I`m hearing is that since a wall isn`t a guaranteed way to keep invaders out then it`s better to just do nothing, or continue doing more of what hasn`t worked.

a wall is a one time expense whose degree of effectiveness can`t be judged until after it has been completed, whereas what we have been doing is an ongoing expense who`s degree of ineffectiveness is well known.

the cost of continuing doing what we have been doing is far more costly than a wall could ever be.

the debate over building a wall is a moot point, the wall WILL be built.


Amazing.

Democrats posture that you can't read a bill until it's been passed.

Conservatives posture that you can't know the price (or maintaining) of the wall until after its built.

A one time expense?

We are #ed.


I said we can`t know to what degree it will be effective until it is built, you made up the rest of that nonsense.
edit on 27-1-2017 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:25 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Or we could work together to come up with a better solution instead of ramming through an idiotic and half-assed measure. Or did you like the way the ACA ended up?


That's been the placation for decades now. Look how far that's brought things along.

Obama deporting more illegals than ever and not getting credit for it? Illegal entry in the country is decreasing and has been on the decline for a few years now?


I think Obama and his NWO did just enough to cause more damage.




posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:25 PM
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originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

the cost to "maintain" the illegals who are here is incalculable, the cost to maintain a wall can be reasonably calculated.

How much do undocumented immigrants pay in taxes?

"He keeps talking about undocumented immigrants. Undocumented immigrants pay $12 billion of taxes every single year. They pay their taxes. They have skin in the game. He is not contributing to a system that he says he's going to go in and fix," Kumar said.

Kumar referred us to an Atlantic piece about undocumented immigrants paying Social Security taxes. It cites a note issued by the Social Security Administration in 2013 that contains the $12 billion figure. But the calculation is based on contributions from immigrants and their employers, not just the immigrants themselves.

According to the Social Security Administration, there were nearly 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States in January 2009. Factoring out kids, nonworking immigrants and those working in the underground economy and not paying taxes, the Social Security Administration estimated about 3.1 million unauthorized immigrants who worked and paid Social Security taxes in 2010.

This group and their employers generated about $13 billion in payroll taxes in 2010. The administration then subtracted about $1 billion in benefits that could’ve been received in 2010 from earnings in years when workers were unauthorized. Workers and employers contribute roughly the same amount.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:25 PM
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originally posted by: DomTullipso
Serious question.

I have not heard one reasonable answer yet, so I'm not optimistic you will be up to the challenge.

Why don't you want to have a wall between the U.S. and Mexico?

a) Is it because you want drug dealers and illegals to freely cross the border with little impediment?

b) Or is it because you're against drug dealers and illegals crossing the border, but you think there are better ways to stop them?

And if you answered b) what other way do you suggest stopping the drug dealers and illegals from entering the U.S.?

Good Luck!!


A wall is only a symbol. Drugs and illegal immigrants will get into the country with or without a wall... why spend money and time on something that is useless and an eyesore? There are sections of a wall already, do they really need to be augmented?

Best way to prevent illegal drugs from coming into this country??? Legalize them, control them, tax them. It will put pot farmers out of business and they won't be sending their Mary Jane over here...because our homegrown will be great, really great. We'll have the best homegrown. And we'll tax it and we'll make millions from it. We'll have such great homegrown that people will be exporting our mary jane.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:26 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Or we could work together to come up with a better solution instead of ramming through an idiotic and half-assed measure. Or did you like the way the ACA ended up?


That's been the placation for decades now. Look how far that's brought things along.

Obama deporting more illegals than ever and not getting credit for it? Illegal entry in the country is decreasing and has been on the decline for a few years now?


I think Obama and his NWO did just enough to cause more damage.


You say this, but it isn't true. Just more Obama bashing.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:26 PM
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apparently immigration from china and india are on the rise. they most likely come in on visas and overstay their welcome. I wonder whose jobs they're stealing? i'm curious how republicans feel about this. they're probably "stealing" decent paying jobs. concerns?

in my opinion,
the wall would be a horrible waste of tax payer money, a horrible eyesore, bad for animal migration, bad for relations with Mexico who are right NEXT TO US.

and, eventually a laughing stock when it doesn't keep out the people it's meant to.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: DomTullipso

I don't want the wall because I feel the job of securing the borders can be done with just increased man power of the border patrol and a boost from tech like drones and other things like infrared.
Im concerned that there is no study on the practicality of the wall. There are no dimensions given and as far as I have seen no estimate of cost.
Im concerned that the wall may be a money pit and quite possibly a monument to Trumps Ego.
Lastly I am concerned that if Trumps American Experiment gets ugly that Walls can also keep people In.
My libertarian sense is tingling with this new administration I feel we traded the authoritarianism of the left for the authoritarianism of the right.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: Middleoftheroad Sure it does. Pay out $15B essentially all at once v. paying-out $15B over 75yrs (giving you two shifts and filling in the 3rd with existing agents already on that border. The savings on debt service alone will more than pay for benefits and equipment. We already have roughly 20,000 border patrol agents along the SW border. Use The Wall money to hire more agents and you have 4-5 per mile on average (remembering that some stretches are in-crossable and require little to no coverage. Agents fuel local economies, pay taxes, are dynamic. The Wall is a stationary monument to arrogance and stupidity. Wait. You'll see.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: SolAquarius
a reply to: DomTullipso

I don't want the wall because I feel the job of securing the borders can be done with just increased man power of the border patrol and a boost from tech like drones and other things like infrared.
Im concerned that there is no study on the practicality of the wall. There are no dimensions given and as far as I have seen no estimate of cost.
Im concerned that the wall may be a money pit and quite possibly a monument to Trumps Ego.
Lastly I am concerned that if Trumps American Experiment gets ugly that Walls can also keep people In.
My libertarian sense is tingling with this new administration I feel we traded the authoritarianism of the left for the authoritarianism of the right.


Money pit you say?

Our whole government has been a money pit for decades! Why the outrage all of a sudden to build a wall that might actually do something to prevent innocent Americans from being murdered by those who just happened to sneak across a wide open border?

I mean, it isn't like our corrupt government has created enough enemies that want to kill us, let's just make it easier for them do it?

WTF......




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