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Mach 3 F-4 Phantom project

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posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 11:49 AM
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In order to build a plane that could catch the Mig-25 the USAF and the Israeli Air Force had considered a mock up of a Phantom that could reach Mach 3. It is a pretty interesting thing to consider in my opinion. It would use water injection to get the J79 to run in afterburner mode for extended periods of time. Interesting thing is that what was also used to get the initial F4H (F-4A) to break many world speed records when it first came on line.

tacairnet.com...




posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 12:02 PM
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When I lived over there, I knew several of the people involved in this project as well other sister projects.
Even today these Vietnam era aircraft can do things that the world would find amazing if they knew.

www.cavok-aviation-photos.net...

Buck


edit on 27-1-2017 by flatbush71 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 12:21 PM
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Wasn't some extreme variant of the F-4 also considered during the early concept stages of the A-12 program?

I thought I read that somewhere just recently.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I have never heard that.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: Fools

I'll have to look to see if I can find were I saw that.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Please do, my pop worked at MAC for 30 years. F-4's, F-15's, and early 18's. So I have a sentimental love for all of those aircraft.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:44 PM
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a reply to: Fools

I think it was in a link Zaphod posted, seems like it was an excerpt from a book in Google reader or something. You couldn't read every page (because they left out pages so you'd buy the book), but you could scroll down for later sections. I read well into that book, it was pretty interesting (maybe even buy it). I think it was in the Oxcart thread, but I have yet to find it.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 06:50 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

There was the YF-4E which had canards and the F-4E-2000 Super Phantom which had upgraded engines. I think that one flew at the Paris airshow in the late 80's.



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 07:21 PM
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originally posted by: Fools
In order to build a plane that could catch the Mig-25 the USAF and the Israeli Air Force had considered a mock up of a Phantom that could reach Mach 3. It is a pretty interesting thing to consider in my opinion. It would use water injection to get the J79 to run in afterburner mode for extended periods of time. Interesting thing is that what was also used to gut only for 1000 km.et the initial F4H (F-4A) to break many world speed records when it first came on line.

tacairnet.com...


The lack of water injection isn't the limiting factor on running the J-79 for extended periods. It was fuel. At full afterburner you became a glider in less than 20 minutes. It was such a fuel sucking hog that after the taxi out and takeoff and initial climb, you had to hit a tanker before you could go anywhere. The speed records it set were all very short distance. For example, it did 1958 mph but only for 15 minutes. Three weeks later it did 1390 mph (mach 2) but only for 60 miles. But boy did it go up. Takeoff to 20,000 feet in one minute.



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 09:42 PM
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Im just wondering when aerodynamic deficiencies come into affect with the airframe becoming a factor in higher Mach numbers.



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 10:16 PM
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Probably the most terrifying experience I've ever had flying was in a Mitsubishi MU-2 over the Gulf of Mexico in 1973. The PIC was an storied F-4 instructor pilot, combat vet (Vietnam) and Col. We got hammered so hard I just knew we wouldn't make it. At one point I even went back and talked to my Mom who was in the back (and told her no matter what I loved her). It was the craziest S# I've ever seen! The wings of that MU-2 were flapping like a bird. I've probably got 35,000,000 miles under my belt and I've never seen anything like that day!!!!! Softball sized hail, lightning every second, 700' up/down drafts. I still can't even believe the airframe survived. Anything not strapped down was bouncing all over the cabin...it was absolutely insane.

The pilots name was John Thomas, and he never lost his cool, not even for one second. I was the warm "body" in the right seat up front. We were in a really bad way. WX radar was solid red and yellow (to the point were we eventually just turned it off for a while). No altitude was good, ATC was totally on our side (they knew). We just got slammed around so hard it was absolutely unbelievable! (I still can't believe the windscreen held up, but it did break...on the side no less). I think we got hit by lightning about 5 times. Instruments would flash, and come back up. It was just the craziest flight ever even imaginable.

I swore I'd kiss the ground if we lived that day. We did, and I did kiss the ground right off the steps (in the pouring rain). I was never so glad to be on the ground! I didn't think I could ever be scared flying...until that day. The plane was pretty heavily damaged (lots of big dents, both props damaged), and I'm not sure if it was ever repaired. I know I never saw it again. (Company aircraft).

Despite it all, John never declared an emergency, never lost his cool and made it seem like it was just another day.

After that, I've always felt the F-4 jocks were some of the baddest dudes in the biz!


edit on 1/28/2017 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 11:45 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I had an incident in the air in the service somewhat like yours but different. The thing in common was having the living sh*t scared out of me. I have written it up in the past in a thread. The exhilaration after it was over, when you were no longer in danger was certainly something I won't forget either.

Great Post, and happy for your survival. I like hearing about aircraft incidents, especially the ones that you walk away from.
edit on 28-1-2017 by charlyv because: spelling , where caught


BTW, and how could I forget, the incredible pilot we had on board that basically saved our lives as well. I have misplaced his name, but have the impetus to find it again after reading this.
edit on 28-1-2017 by charlyv because: content



posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 11:49 PM
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I worked on F-4G "Wild Weasels"....

Mach 3 on that airframe isn't impossible.... but highly improbable.



posted on Jan, 31 2017 @ 03:51 AM
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Interesting that they'd thought about putting conformal tanks on for water carriage but never looked at doing that for fuel.



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: madmac5150
I worked on F-4G "Wild Weasels"....

Mach 3 on that airframe isn't impossible.... but highly improbable.



Anything can do mach 3 with enough thrust to do it. May not survive it, but....

:-)



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: Donkey09

Makes you wonder if that idea came from this idea?



posted on Feb, 1 2017 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: Donkey09

Makes you wonder if that idea came from this idea?



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