North Korea Watch 2017

a reply to: worldstarcountry

I really don't have a problem with a U.S. intervention (Non-nuclear) in NK. My only problem is, China may have a problem with it, even though NK is a thorn in their side too. China has made statements against U.S. THAAD systems being deployed. They see it as a threat to them, not just NK.

It feels like a confrontation would also bring China into it. This is why I would support more Chinese control in this scenario. It would avert a potential conflict with China, and millions of deaths if we just let China take the reigns on this while the U.S. offers support for said efforts. It's really hard to see what other optional paths should be taken here with the least amount of lives lost.

a reply to: Wookiep

Well if it was not for the fact the North Korean leader himself is God, we would be able to pull a Syria where everyone is going to end up with a slice of the pie, depending on who secures Raqqa first of course.

But without that diverse religious competition, it is harder to exploit the locals.

Whoops, am I talking like an imperialist again??? I will try and be more subtle in the future.

I feel like a united Sovereign Entity with two governates that share a constitution, but can retain some autonomy could be presented as an alternative to annexation. This way, the dignity of the Koreans is respected, and historical policy decisions can be smoothly transitioned into a new cooperative system where both of the influencing empires will still have the appearance of their buffers and proxies.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

I actually agree with your assessment. You present a very best case scenario, one of which I don't believe is realistic. If possible however, then Hell yes!

But...I just don't think it's that simple. I think we are talking about millions of deaths without compromising on a plan B. That being, a China led coalition. Otherwise we could be dealing with a WWIII type situation. A full scale assault on NK led by the U.S. would strain our already weakened military resources. It would be costly both in terms of lives and monetarily to the U.S. (If we are talking about a conventional ground war) and it would put the U.S. in a very vulnerable situation. Our resources are already spread thin, (Syria, and all the other military operations around the globe) and much of our military equipment is in need of serious maintenance.

In ALL instances, the nuclear option should not even be considered. The global backlash, along with the amounts of deaths would be unfathomable. I get the B-52 deterrence thing...but that's all it should be and probably actually is. A deterrent.

Other options need to be explored. Just my 2 cents.

a reply to: Wookiep

I think Nuclear weapons are in fact my biggest fear to be honest. Not even because they can erase me in blink, but because an entire city and society can be erased in a blink. Enough of them go off around the world, and history will just be erased too. The remains of a charred husk of a city will return to the Earth much sooner than whole functioning city that is simply abandoned. It will be as if the place did not exist in less than a century if it just left alone.

It is official.

“I once again confirm that the body is that of Kim Jong-nam,” Mr. Zahid said, contradicting the official North Korean position, which insists the man, killed Feb. 13 in a crowded airport terminal, was named Kim Chol.

Mr. Kim was assaulted by two women who approached him and smeared his face with a liquid that autopsy tests showed was the banned chemical agent VX. He was carrying a passport with the name Kim Chol.

NY Times, March 15, 2017 - DNA Confirms Assassination Victim Was Half-Brother of Kim Jong-un, Malaysia Says.

The compared DNA with one of his children and that is the result. But of course North Korea will say something outlandish and blame the US.

a reply to: Wookiep

Anyways this is not 1942. With THAAD in place in South Korea, Guam, AND Japan the only viable options for a nuke strike are Japan or Guam. 3 separate companies of multiple THAAD emplacements will take down what they shoot quickly before it reaches target, and then on top of that, we will know the launch locations and have the opportunity to destroy their ballistic missile and likely their nuclear weapons program.

From what I am seeing, North Korea is finally going to meet their maker. Their is only one heir left after the current leader, and he will capitulate as soon as he is captured. Finally, the myth of a God King will come to an end.

Its this:

originally posted by: worldstarcountry

originally posted by: worldstarcountry

originally posted by: worldstarcountry

vs. this:


Unfortunately for the North Koren people, my money is on the Pacific fleet and our allies. Back channels will tell China this is their opportunity to cooperate if you want us to humor the one china policy as far as Taiwan goes.

Oh, the USS Carl Vinson just arrived, how nice.

WHY is it such a BIG DEAL to Media Outlets that Secretary of State Tillerson said today that the U.S. might "take action" if North Korea threatened South Korea, or U.S. Troops?

""U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson on Friday issued the Trump administration's starkest warning yet to North Korea, saying that a military response would be "on the table" if Pyongyang took action to threaten South Korean and U.S. forces.""

Excerpted from -- www.reuters.com...

Is the media so used to the U.S. being in a "can't we all just get along?" mode, that a common sense statement from our Secretary of State shocks them?

a reply to: carewemust

they had no problem advertising for the destruction of Syria and Libya, but NK is where they make a stink??? I say its time. All the systems they have worked on for two decades to make it possible are finally in place. He does not have enough nuclear potential to successfully land a strike. They re literally surrounded in an arch of ABM technology and capabilities by three nations. We should strike now before the Chinese gift them anything at the last minute.

I am wondering why North Korea is spending all this money on ICBM's which they know can be intercepted with US technology instead of things like anti-ship missiles and advance anti-aircraft missiles.

Kim Han-sol, who is in his early twenties, was educated in Macau, Bosnia, and France, and has spent much of his life outside North Korea.
...
“Because of the multiculturalism that the school has and the diversity in the classrooms, it is easier for all of us to expand on our topics in the class and share our opinions on various topics,” Kim Han-sol says. “And through that I think we can come to a better understanding with no boundaries, and I think that’s a very crucial thing for building a more peaceful community.” He speaks of everyone having “very similar core human values”; of his future hopes, he says, “I would like to engage in more humanitarian projects and also work to contribute to building world peace, and especially back home. . . . I’ve always dreamed that one day I will go back and make things better and make it easier for the people there.”

The New Yorker, March 20, 2017 - An Extraordinary Statement from a North Korean Prince.

He is the eldest son of assassinated, half brother, Kim Jong-nam. He has spent time abroad going to school and meeting others from the wider world. He says something this world is missing now a days: rationality. H3ll, he sounds more cool and collected than The Orange Guy! No name calling, finger pointing, special snowflake twitter tantrum, or other childish action. No bullying. You get the picture.

Lame Stream Media has taken a bashing by me recently. It is nice to see a decent story with a decent message of basic humanity from somebody in the center of pure craziness.

a reply to: Miracula2

Because since sometime around the 90s,or possibly earlier, every time they announce they're advancing on a nuclear weapon, or an ICBM, the West jumps up with, "If you stop, we'll give you...."

An antiship missile or advanced SAM doesn't get the same reaction.

a reply to: Wookiep

NO.

You're pretty much giving the Chinese what they want and US presence in the area would diminish, your kidding right?

a reply to: worldstarcountry

I love your avatar! you keeping up with Dragonball Super? what are you expectations of the Survival Arc? How about that beating Goku got from Toppo?

Back on Topic:

China is very cornered as you say. They currently have a large but fragile military, untested and limited numbers. Either they help NK and risk alienating themselves from the world, or bit their tongue and maintain toes at the border, letting in refugees.

This isn't a conflict they can win and will result in a lot of deaths. A united Korea is preferred.

I believe a disinformation campaign is best. Keep smuggling in media that shows a different world then what Kim paints. Add in the family setting, security and freedom.

a reply to: Arnie123

If it were to avoid a nuclear war, sure let China have NK. Unless China would then become a threat to SK why would the U.S. need a huge presence in the area? We also need to consider the 20 trillion debt problem. I don't think the U.S. can continue having a massive military presence all around the world anymore. Nor do I think a conventional war with NK is in the budget either. Just spit-balling.

Always remember that certain things can be arranged to happen.
( Coldest Foxtrotting place I've ever been .)

And as far as that beef stew over there, well lets just say there is enough meat in it to resurrect Godzilla.

That part of the world, is where I grew up and it very much reminds of EAP's Eldorado.

Gaily bedight,
A gallant knight,
In sunshine and in shadow,
Had journeyed long,
Singing a song,
In search of Eldorado.

But he grew old—
This knight so bold—
And o’er his heart a shadow—
Fell as he found
No spot of ground
That looked like Eldorado.

And, as his strength
Failed him at length,
He met a pilgrim shadow—
‘Shadow,’ said he,
‘Where can it be—
This land of Eldorado?’

‘Over the Mountains Of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,’
The shade replied,— ‘If you seek for Eldorado!’

Edgar Allen Poe
1846

Buck

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: Arnie123

If it were to avoid a nuclear war, sure let China have NK. Unless China would then become a threat to SK why would the U.S. need a huge presence in the area? We also need to consider the 20 trillion debt problem. I don't think the U.S. can continue having a massive military presence all around the world anymore. Nor do I think a conventional war with NK is in the budget either. Just spit-balling.

You seem to think war will lead to all out nuclear war, this is false. Where were the Nukes during Vietnam or Korea? These are last resort weapons.

The debt problem is another issue, the military can take precedence in this case.

We are in the area to support our allies, did you forget we have allies there? some of which are not able to defend themselves against a belligerent china. You personal opinion about them being there has very little value in the world strategic setting. Especially considering man made islands full of military bases.

Freedom of Navigation is also a thing to.

a reply to: Arnie123

Well, luckily, ATS is all for expressing opinions. I'm not too impressed with your condescending tone, so I'll go ahead and leave you to your own opinions.

Later!

a reply to: Zaphod58


Interesting theory.

a reply to: Miracula2

Look at how many times they've started a food or oil deal with them, then look at the timing. Many times after they perform a test, suddenly there are talks and some kind of deal is reached. If there are no talks, the tests continue.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Before 2017, it was John Kerry (aka "Lurch") saying that ALL OPTIONS ARE ON THE TABLE. The mainstream media loved him. J.K. could say no wrong..including when he said (Summer 2016) that Air Conditioners should be outlawed, to reduce global warming.