Biggest danger for the Catholic Church - Modernism or Conservatism? Vatican overtakes dissent Order

a reply to: DeathSlayer

I admit that similar vision of violence and destruction is found in the works of Catholic saints, such as St Pius X and others. It was part of the official release of Fatima third secret. (I have enough threads about it, why it cannot be the ONLY part of the secret). That is possible to occur, having the CIA warning to the Vatican of possible terrorist big attack...

About the Harlot of the Revelation, indeed that was the initial view of the protestants at the time of the Reformation. Things changed since then, for the Lutheran top pastor of Sweden to tell pope Francis, we apologize for the past...

To have the Harlot, you have to have the Beast whom she rides...so who is the beast then if youi assume who the harlot is?

IMO it could be a new Caliphate rising after decades or centuries. It is not given to us to know the times, said Jesus. I'd rather expect a planetary Chastisement, as predicted by Catholic Saints, including Fatima, to befall not only Rome but the entire planet. That is another motivation for the popes to release whatever secrets they hold for humanity, and to manage to go beyond the current deadlock between hierarchy with absurd fighting in medieval style. It is for the sake of the entire humanity, not only for the Catholics that are roughly 1/6 of it.

a reply to: Raggedyman
New Testament rules (Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss):

Women.

“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.”
Colossians 3:18

Homosexuality.

"Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality. Corinthians 6:9-10

Doesn't sound very loving.

False prophets.

"Dear Children, keep yourselves from idols. John 15:20

But yeah, I was wrong about the prawns. My bad.

That's basic christianity

We can eat shellfish, no laws but love others, yes even gays

"Basic christianity" seems to conflict with "actual christianity".

a reply to: 2012newstart

Their biggest danger is someone exposing all they have hidden from their members,I thought it was un christian to keep secrets,hypocritical

a reply to: 2012newstart

Their biggest danger is someone exposing all they have hidden from their members,I thought it was un christian to keep secrets,hypocritical

If you ask me everything other than non-denominational churches are way out in left field with their doctrine.

Opinionated. Following false doctrine.

Most of the non-denominational Christians I have met are pretty nice.

Denominational Christians I have met are pretty rude and opinionated and don't wait to be attacked before becoming hostile.

NVM my bad

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: markosity1973

And that is why Christianity is dying. Because other denominations are just as bad.

Although I would agree in part to the second part of that ,I would disagree with the first part in whole .If it was dying we would not see new denominations and newer bigger Church buildings being built .Not to mention the thousands of new house Churches that are being borne .Could it be that when the RCC decides to close one of its older rural Churches that smaller house churches are borne ? Could it also be that these new house Churches are made up of believers that look to the scripture for their guidance instead of the older traditional models where the head Church in that denomination sends the marching orders down .

Not really. Catholics are encouraged to be ecumenical, so participating in home churches and interdenominational bible study is actually encouraged. Catholic priests are sent to university to study theology alongside all other denominations too.

I don't really understand how and why this myth that Catholics do not read the bible started. I can tell you now that from a small child we went to Sunday school and were taught all those stories like Noah's ark and Jesus' miracle of the fish and loaves etc etc. As adults there are communal bible reading classes too.

In my own Catholic family my (Catholic) great grandfather was renowned for that fact that he both lived to the age of 92 and that even though he had gone blind with age he had committed the bible to memory and used to recite it to his grandchildren (my uncles and aunts)

As for this militant style of barking orders down from Rome - not really. The clergy are definitely under the thumb, but it is no secret that many have gone rogue and the scandals that ensued are of biblical proportions. (And THAT is why a lot of the faithful left TBCH) But in general life in the church community is pretty chillaxed.

originally posted by: MrSensible
a reply to: Raggedyman
New Testament rules (Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss):

Women.

“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.”
Colossians 3:18

Homosexuality.

"Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality. Corinthians 6:9-10

Doesn't sound very loving.

False prophets.

"Dear Children, keep yourselves from idols. John 15:20

But yeah, I was wrong about the prawns. My bad.

That's basic christianity

We can eat shellfish, no laws but love others, yes even gays

"Basic christianity" seems to conflict with "actual christianity".

Congratulations, you have taken a hand full of verses and used them way out of context
I would expect no less from a person trying to win an argument rather than understand the difference, oh well, live in it

Your sources are as ignorant as you, sad to say

But hey, on the upside, you may have finally understood that Christians are not Jews, good for you.
Now don't forget

originally posted by: MrSensible

Homosexuality.

"Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality. Corinthians 6:9-10

Doesn't sound very loving.

You have quoted a bad translation there.

The Jerusalem (Catholic bible) translation says;

9 Do you not realise that people who do evil will never inherit the kingdom of God? Make no mistake -- the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, the self-indulgent, sodomites,10 thieves, misers, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers, none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.

www.catholic.org...

Ask any Priest what a sodomite is (I did) and the answer you will get is;

A group of people who used to engage in homosexual activity for pagan worship. Like the cult of Antinous

So, it is not as much talking about gay people as it is groups of pagan worshippers. Because there is so much anti-gay bias in Christians it has become accepted to mean what is in the first translation that you provided, but the truth is subtly different. You will also see that taken in full context then most people I know today would not be going to heaven. Because almost everyone I know (including myself btw) falls into one of those broad categories.

a reply to: markosity1973

I can tell you now that from a small child we went to Sunday school and were taught all those stories like Noah's ark and Jesus' miracle of the fish and loaves etc etc. As adults there are communal bible reading classes too. In my own Catholic family my (Catholic) great grandfather was renowned for that fact that he both lived to the age of 92 and that even though he had gone blind with age he had committed the bible to memory and used to recite it to his grandchildren (my uncles and aunts) As for this militant style of barking orders down from Rome - not really. The clergy are definitely under the thumb, but it is no secret that many have gone rogue and the scandals that ensued are of biblical proportions. (And THAT is why a lot of the faithful left TBCH) But in general life in the church community is pretty chillaxed.

OK so that is the is the standard approach to the Bible but is only the first baby step . The Bible is so layered that those first readings produce a amount of tiles in the full mosaic that re-reading and studying them give more resolution to the picture

I have a few friends that have pretty much memorized the bible .You might be hard pressed to get a definition of what the text actually means though .Knowing the words has to take a back seat to knowing what they really mean . I dont need to memorize the bible .I have the book that I can refer to . I am more interested in what it means .. Regurgitating what was said does not mean you understand it .the word Church congers up thoughts .and a picture . If it makes you visualize a wooden or stone building then chances are that you are not on the right trail .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

All I say is

www.catholic.org...

Click on it - I dare you. IYou'll notice that at the bottom of the link - bibles are for sale. You'll also see versions with the extra books in it. We use the entire bible, including the disputed books that are omitted from standard bible accepted by Protestantism.

f you were to attend mass every single day, for three years you would have heard 75% of the NT and approx 18% of the OT. Break down here

forums.catholic.com...

Why so little of the OT? Because Catholics firmly believe in Salvation and the word of Christ ahead of superfluous things like genealogy and who smote whom and rewarded one another with plates of foreskins.

BUT

ALL Catholics are highly encouraged to read and study the entire bible for themselves. There are classes available for those who want to and we are entirely encouraged to go join in with other denominations to share and learn. If a Catholic hasn't done so, it's their own laziness.

ETA, what you allude to is a study bible. I have one of them, (The Jerusalem study bible) and a concordance. They are really useful because they are full of annotations and cross references to what verse supports what.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

The question with the Orthodox churches is important. All popes since John XXIII tried to mend ties, and do not call the Orthodox -schismatic any more rather sister churches and divided brothers. All sacraments are recognized as valid. Thus, one may wonder what happens in cases of second and third Orthodox marriages, and married priesthood.

The Jesuit pope tried to make difference since the long long pontificate of John Paul II and the not to much liberal pontificate of Benedict. I doubt the time will be enough for the 80 year old Francis for the ambitious program he set forth at his election. Indeed he reshuffled offices and people, but that would be done by every new president and PM. More is needed by the pope of the world's biggest organization that didn't see much change since Vatican II some 5 decades ago. If Francis fails it will be not so much because of any "drastic changes" he proposed with half words, but because of their absence. He still has a time, but time is literally running out.

Let consider how the youths in Ireland voted out the catholic teaching on marriage in referendum for gay marriages. People who were formed under one of the most fundamental local Catholic churches on earth. Abortions are not legal in Ireland, but the majority of the Catholic population voted for gay marriages. That is to say something to those in Vatican who still think half measures and ambiguous words could suffice for cosmetic change.

Let also not forget that the Catholic Church has the celibacy priesthood almost all of its history. What makes a young man decide he doesn't want a girl all his life? Only the love of God? Or may be the love of his brothers whom he would study together 5-10 years and in most cases will continue to live with for the rest of his life? I don't say that all Catholic priests are engaged in homosexuality. The mentality is clear though They have chosen to live with their brothers, saintly for many of them. It is hypocrisy when some prelates today cry wolf, in cases not involving minors.

The changes are as much delayed as 6th century may be. We'd better revert to pre-institutionalized church before it substituted the Roman imperial structure. And if it is not possible to get rid of obsolete structures, then at least let the Spirit move thru them openly, and not shut down voices of few who see beyond today's problems. Because communion for divorcees is by no mean the biggest problem.

The Church has mandate of Jesus to bring the Gospel to the ends of the World...not to hunt witches or to determine who goes to hell. If Francis could make it happen, my congratulations. if he fails, Catholic church fails as well. May be it is the time to think what happens after the era of Francis and Malachi.