Trump Administration Orders Communications Blackout For US Scientists

a reply to: Indigo5

If you are actually emotional in discussion here, we should part ways.

I've said again and again: ATS is where I take my ideas and flesh them out. Sometimes I may be devils advocate, sometimes I may be pursuing concepts of liberty so I can determine my own stance, or sometimes I may be angry and posting my own actual emotions or feelings.

I've no interest in emotional discussion. Im interested in taking an idea, playing with it, and then deciding if I should discard it or not once through. You're not doing much to convince me either way here. Especially when you aren't even trying to understand the idea I am playing with, and retorting with emotional outbursts, caps lock words, and multiple punctuation marks.

Here's what the experts told us about oil in 1977:

1977: Oil will peak by the early 90s "As a nation, Americans have been reluctant to accept the prospect of physical shortages. We must recognize that world oil production will likely peak in the early 1990's, and from that point on will be on a declining curve. By the early part of the 21st century, we must face the prospect of running out of oil and natural gas." — 1977 US Department of Energy Organization Act

Here's the history of BS we've been told:
paleofuture.gizmodo.com...

Now I wonder why the experts, including publicly funded experts, told us this rubbish. Lies to boost the price of oil? Or a genuine mistake? Or stupidity for not factoring in new finds?

Now we have a new generation of 'experts' that tell us the temperature is going to be x by y date (and getting it wrong), or all the ice will be gone in the North Pole by x date... the common theme seems to be money.

It's about time someone cleaned up all the nonsense being fed to the public.

Really this thread has become one huge echo chamber and therefor a similarly huge joke.


It has already been shown on page one that the temporary twitter block did not come from the WH but from within the department itself because it policy was violated. Which is verifiable yet here you all are up until page 12 still parroting false MSM headlines playing the echo game while doing your utmost best to ignore the facts.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Indigo5

If you are actually emotional in discussion here, we should part ways.

Good with me Tex. Someone told me about a change in you that I didn't get at the time. I do now. See you on the other side of this.

I'd only be worried if the Blackout isn't lifted after 90 days or so. If you ever watch the Congressional Hearings on CSPAN, I think all these agencies have been called out on the carpet in the last few years for the way they have done things. From Sexual harassment in the Park Service to the EPA's Michigan Water disaster. I think there is every reason in the world to rein these departments in and make sure they understand the new administrations priorities.

Climate Change science, I apply Occam's Razor:
Who is the worlds largest generator of excess co2? China, almost DOUBLE what we generate.

Who is the world largest producer of pollution? China, they often shut down cities due to Pollution and there is widespread ecological damage in the country.

Biggest bang for the Climate Change Buck is to make China stop polluting. Yeah right, like that's going to happen.

But there again, if we bring manufacturing back to the US from China, we will be actually HELPING the climate by reducing China's output.

That's a conclusion most people get without hardly thinking. So what is the big scientific division doing for climate science? Feverishly calculating the exact moment we'll fry? or drown?

a reply to: OrganizedChaos

Maybe someone should black out ATS and shut it down until they can decide for us what is bias or not?

So many tyrants minions on here making excuses for the inexcusable.

This isn't a left right issue.

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: OrganizedChaos

Maybe someone should black out ATS and shut it down until they can decide for us what is bias or not?

So many tyrants minions on here making excuses for the inexcusable.

This isn't a left right issue.

I understand. Just to be clear, I HOPE the reason for the blackout is just to square them away with the new management policies.

I have no reason to think otherwise. Like I said in my previous post though, just about all these divisions have been targets of congressional investigations.

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: OrganizedChaos

Maybe someone should black out ATS and shut it down until they can decide for us what is bias or not?

So many tyrants minions on here making excuses for the inexcusable.

This isn't a left right issue.

If you want a correct analogy by using ATS you should say (Maybe ATS should black out ATS and shut it down until they can decide for us what is bias or not?) Because it was not the white house that ordered the ban but that department itself because someone inside of it was breaking its policy rules.

a reply to: everyone

it was not the white house that ordered the ban but that department itself because someone inside of it was breaking its policy rules.

Far more than one single department is affected by the gag on scientists.

Policies change, and looks like there's a new policy muzzles scientists. As in, there are a lot of stories and bs floating around. Don't believe everything you're told, no matter who says it.

a reply to: soficrow

Wrong. You are pretending that the policy was changed which is patently untrue. If you think you will convince anyone of what you just said don't expect to much support for it, it is a simple fact which is quite universal that such twitter accounts are not to be used for personal opinions and propaganda and if you do the policy dictates that measures will be taken. Simple undeniable fact. But you attempt to suggest that trump's administration quickly changed the policy to this, that is just so desperately sad.

They are enforcing the policy they had and that is all there is to it.

originally posted by: everyone
a reply to: soficrow

Wrong. You are pretending that the policy was changed which is patently untrue. If you think you will convince anyone of what you just said don't expect to much support for it, .....

They are enforcing the policy they had and that is all there is to it.

I am not pretending anything. I reported the news from 10 different sources. However, having been here before, around 2005/6 with the Bush and Harper administrations, I am quite confident the media got it right. Again.

In case you missed the news references:

USDA Scientists Have Been Put On Lockdown Under Trump

“This includes, but is not limited to, news releases, photos, fact sheets, news feeds, and social media content,” she added.

Trump Administration Orders Communications Blackout For US Scientists

Sudden changes at the EPA, USDA, and CDC under Trump, explained

Government scientists are being ordered not to talk about their research — and it’s only week one.

Trump appears to be muzzling scientists just like Canada did

That’s what happened in Canada after Prime Minister Stephen Harper was elected in 2006. And now it’s happening here under President Donald Trump…

Trump Administration Puts Gag Order on Several Government Agencies

'It's Day 4 and It's Already Happening': Rachel Maddow Sounds the Alarm on Trump's Science Gag Order

Trump silences government scientists with gag orders

Donald Trump stopping US government scientists from speaking out publicly is 'chilling’

The American Association for the Advancement of Science warns against 'censorship and intimidation’

Make America Gagged Again

Trump issues gag orders on science agencies.

Trump bans government scientists from sharing their work with the taxpayers who funded it

.

OK, so as I've tried to read up on this, im finding there is nothing that is definitive or invective.

Can someone give me an unbiased summary of what Trump actually did here? Some sources paint him as a devil not seen since Harper. Others are painting a picture of a government reigning in rogue departments. Im sure somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

Help?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
OK, so as I've tried to read up on this, im finding there is nothing that is definitive or invective.

Can someone give me an unbiased summary of what Trump actually did here? Some sources paint him as a devil not seen since Harper. Others are painting a picture of a government reigning in rogue departments. Im sure somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

Help?

Bit late but I'll give it a shot.

Looks like the Trump administration is being heavy-handed and inappropriately controlling like Bush and Harper were. The memos appear to have come down the pike, instituting full gag orders (e.g.. not just for social media, and not only for "infractions"). Not aware of any verifiable leaks naming Trump explicitly as the source but clearly, if things weren't happening the way he wants them to happen, such things would change. So it's all driven by and for political agenda with no pretence, and justified by the claim that "they did it too." [No doubt 'they' did, but at least there was some balance - and the motivations weren't broad-brush anti-science.]

People like me are all over it because of the set-backs during the Bush and Harper years, which were not anti-science per se but mainly about serving the corporate agenda. ...I believe in science for science sake, and knowledge and academic inquiry for the sake of pure knowledge too.

Obviously, corporate employers are there to serve investors and profit - but in the past, universities served a "higher purpose," seeking knowledge for knowledge sake. Governments served the people and they too, sought knowledge for knowledge sake (as well as military and other political advantage).

Now, it's not just corporate-owned scientists seeking knowledge for the sake of profit, but governments' and universities' scientists too - they are all beholden to funders, and are forced to dance to their demands. And most believe in their gawd-given right to a percentage and cut of the profits.

Now, old-fashioned 'higher purpose' is served, and knowledge for the sake of knowledge is sought only by those individuals with integrity, but not the system. So no, the system doesn't work - there's a lot of fraud, falsifying of information, lying and stealing going on.

But you can't fix it by mis-identifying the problem, gagging the front-line people who are least financially compromised - and throwing the baby out with the bathwater.




Ah. It all sucks.

a reply to: soficrow

Is there an EO or something somewhere that closes the loop and ties back to Trump issuing a command?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: soficrow

Is there an EO or something somewhere that closes the loop and ties back to Trump issuing a command?

Executive Orders are not used or required to (re)direct departmental activity, as I’m sure you know. The reports cite memos, emails and orders - which is standard Operating Procedure.

Trump Administration Puts Gag Order on Several Government Agencies

[THE FACTS]

Employees at several federal agencies including the Department of Agriculture have been barred by the Trump administration from making any statements, or providing any documents to the public or journalists…

The Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Health and Human Services …orders …include a prohibition against some of the agencies posting on social media.

…The EPA has also been ordered to freeze all grants, contracts and other agreements until further notice, according to numerous reports.

…The memo also ordered that …staff send a list of any external speaking arrangements, that no new documents be uploaded to any public website, and that "incoming media requests will be carefully screened."

…Staff at the USDA's Agricultural Research Service also got a memo on Monday telling them not to provide any documents to the public

…Employees of the Department of Health and Human Services were also told not to publish any new documents or correspondence in any public forum, including the Federal Register, and not to discuss any documents or rules with public officials


[THE ALT-FACTS]

…press secretary Sean Spicer …said his understanding was that the department (tsk) “inappropriately violated their own social-media polices [and] there was guidance that was put out to the department to act in compliance with the rules. "Spicer added that he wasn't aware of any changes to media policies affecting either the EPA or the USDA but that he and his staff were looking into it.

THE SOURCE:

Fortune is a multinational business magazine, published and owned by Time Inc. and headquartered in New York City. ... The magazine competes with Forbes and Bloomberg Businessweek in the national business magazine category and distinguishes itself with long, in-depth feature articles.

There he goes wiping his rear with the 1st amendment. You are only allowed to say what goes along with the right wing agenda

Congressmen Lieu and Beyer (my #randomactsofkindnessday hereos) opened an official .gov website for federal employees who feel stymied by the Trump administrations communications blackout.

Ballsy.

Federal Employees Guide to Sharing Information with the Public

I love this.

originally posted by: Olivine
Congressmen Lieu and Beyer (my #randomactsofkindnessday hereos) opened an official .gov website for federal employees who feel stymied by the Trump administrations communications blackout.

Ballsy.

Federal Employees Guide to Sharing Information with the Public

I love this.

Wow!

GREAT link! Thanks.