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Trump pledges "major investigation into voter fraud"

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posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 06:47 PM
link   

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Indigo5

And why is the NAACP and other organizations so interested in looking at the effects of voter ID, but so resistant to looking into voter fraud?



Frankly grambler it is out there for your own research purposes...

I get you want the burden on me to prove that it disenfranchises folks...

And I can, in fact give you stats and court rulings...but not today..It's a work day


And despite your snark, I do respect your typical input..I'll get back to this maybe this evening when I have time to compile..

This is an interesting read if you are genuinely open to the numbers around the issue..Some suprising conclusions

LINK

Gotta go for now.


My frustration is that people are admitting voter fraud exists, but don't think it is a big deal.



That is me...

2 prosecutable cases of Voter Fraud in the 2016 Presidential Election...Lady in Florida Voting twice for Trump and guy in Texas that said he was testing the system for Trump..Both voted Trump..

That puts Voter Fraud in the 1 in 60 million category...You have 60X greater chance of getting struck by lightening today.

Paul Ryan's (GOP LEAD of the House) response to Trump's "investigation" nonsense?



"I've seen no evidence to that effect.
I've made that very, very clear," House Speaker Paul Ryan told reporters

www.npr.org...

Sean Spicer, the Presidents spokeperson tried to defend Trump's delusion by citing a study by David Becker...

And David Becker responded..


David Becker, executive director of the Center for Election Innovation & Research, and one of the authors of the Pew report cited by Spicer, rebutted the claim in a tweet Tuesday, saying that "voting integrity better in this election than ever before. Zero evidence of fraud."


www.nbcbayarea.com...

I get that you say...if there is not problem, then why not investigate...

That assumes the best intentions of those pushing the narrative..

And Repeatedly it has been shown through leaks, quotes and public misstatements..That hunting the sasquatch of a million illegal voters is just BS to provide cover for making it harder for poor and minority people to vote.

Now for some honesty...Bring it...I don't mind Trump going full on Bannon-Style extreme right..The country should have an honest choice, no BS involved and it can survive Trump..

I have faith in the American people..I believe Trump is damaging the GOP far more than he is America..and if the Dems took a shot to the chin during the fight..all the better, they need to get their # together..But I have zero doubt as to how the American Public is going to respond to the GOP/Trump over the next 4 years..assuming the GOP does not panic and impeach him to try and save themselves before the four years are up.


Many of these same people go berserk at the idea of having to have an id to vote, because voting rights are so sacred.

I don't understand how one person could hold both of these views.

I also think voting rights are sacred, and if everyone is admitting that voter fraud occurs at some level, and that voting rolls are often times inaccurate (apparently even with Steve Bannon) then why isn't it a worth while effort to investigate this problem and try to correct it?


edit on 25-1-2017 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 06:47 PM
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originally posted by: SeekingAlpha
....
This dude is just all butt hurt because he can't come to grips that he didn't win the popular vote. Plus, he's damaging our democracy with these outburst.

Get him the F out of office. The guy is an embarrassment.


Well, the U.S. is not a democracy, it is a Constitutional and representative Republic...

Plato said it best. For him "democracy is the disaster of the Republic".

Democracy is "supposed to be" what Karl Marx himself explained as "dictatorship of the proletariat". in which what is, or is seen as "the majority" can take away the rights from other minorities because "it is for the good of the collective of course". Under democracy people can break just laws freely and it is essentially similar to anarchy.

The U.S. is not, and was never supposed to be a democracy, and too many people from all political parties don't seem to realize this.



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 06:55 PM
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a reply to: queenofswords

I think it is money well spent as well. We know there is voter fraud, probably from both sides. An investigation would go a long way towards identifying the extent of the fraud, where it manifests in greatesr numbers, whether election admin is complicit, and possibly identify some of the culprits and allow for prosecution for those who would manipulate a very serious system.

It would also help us identify the weaknesses in the system and allow us to redesign the process to make it less vulnerable to manipulation.

An investigation and an overhaul is long overdue imo.



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 07:06 PM
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It's so funny watching Democrats take an interest in government spending all of a sudden.



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 07:11 PM
link   

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Indigo5

And why is the NAACP and other organizations so interested in looking at the effects of voter ID, but so resistant to looking into voter fraud?



Frankly grambler it is out there for your own research purposes...

I get you want the burden on me to prove that it disenfranchises folks...

And I can, in fact give you stats and court rulings...but not today..It's a work day


And despite your snark, I do respect your typical input..I'll get back to this maybe this evening when I have time to compile..

This is an interesting read if you are genuinely open to the numbers around the issue..Some suprising conclusions

LINK

Gotta go for now.


My frustration is that people are admitting voter fraud exists, but don't think it is a big deal.



That is me...

2 prosecutable cases of Voter Fraud in the 2016 Presidential Election...Lady in Florida Voting twice for Trump and guy in Texas that said he was testing the system for Trump..Both voted Trump..

That puts Voter Fraud in the 1 in 60 million category...You have 60X greater chance of getting struck by lightening today.

Paul Ryan's (GOP LEAD of the House) response to Trump's "investigation" nonsense?



"I've seen no evidence to that effect.
I've made that very, very clear," House Speaker Paul Ryan told reporters

www.npr.org...

Sean Spicer, the Presidents spokeperson tried to defend Trump's delusion by citing a study by David Becker...

And David Becker responded..


David Becker, executive director of the Center for Election Innovation & Research, and one of the authors of the Pew report cited by Spicer, rebutted the claim in a tweet Tuesday, saying that "voting integrity better in this election than ever before. Zero evidence of fraud."


www.nbcbayarea.com...

I get that you say...if there is not problem, then why not investigate...

That assumes the best intentions of those pushing the narrative..

And Repeatedly it has been shown through leaks, quotes and public misstatements..That hunting the sasquatch of a million illegal voters is just BS to provide cover for making it harder for poor and minority people to vote.

Now for some honesty...Bring it...I don't mind Trump going full on Bannon-Style extreme right..The country should have an honest choice, no BS involved and it can survive Trump..

I have faith in the American people..I believe Trump is damaging the GOP far more than he is America..and if the Dems took a shot to the chin during the fight..all the better, they need to get their # together..But I have zero doubt as to how the American Public is going to respond to the GOP/Trump over the next 4 years..assuming the GOP does not panic and impeach him to try and save themselves before the four years are up.


Many of these same people go berserk at the idea of having to have an id to vote, because voting rights are so sacred.

I don't understand how one person could hold both of these views.

I also think voting rights are sacred, and if everyone is admitting that voter fraud occurs at some level, and that voting rolls are often times inaccurate (apparently even with Steve Bannon) then why isn't it a worth while effort to investigate this problem and try to correct it?





Let me get this straight.

So there Is hard proof of voter fraud but no one/dems wants to see how much

BUT

No hard proof of russians hacking/influencing the election but people/dems calling for all kinds of investigations/sanctions and military retaliation?

lol. ok!










posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 07:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Indigo5

And why is the NAACP and other organizations so interested in looking at the effects of voter ID, but so resistant to looking into voter fraud?



Frankly grambler it is out there for your own research purposes...

I get you want the burden on me to prove that it disenfranchises folks...

And I can, in fact give you stats and court rulings...but not today..It's a work day


And despite your snark, I do respect your typical input..I'll get back to this maybe this evening when I have time to compile..

This is an interesting read if you are genuinely open to the numbers around the issue..Some suprising conclusions

LINK

Gotta go for now.


My frustration is that people are admitting voter fraud exists, but don't think it is a big deal.



That is me...

2 prosecutable cases of Voter Fraud in the 2016 Presidential Election...Lady in Florida Voting twice for Trump and guy in Texas that said he was testing the system for Trump..Both voted Trump..

That puts Voter Fraud in the 1 in 60 million category...You have 60X greater chance of getting struck by lightening today.

Paul Ryan's (GOP LEAD of the House) response to Trump's "investigation" nonsense?



"I've seen no evidence to that effect.
I've made that very, very clear," House Speaker Paul Ryan told reporters

www.npr.org...

Sean Spicer, the Presidents spokeperson tried to defend Trump's delusion by citing a study by David Becker...

And David Becker responded..


David Becker, executive director of the Center for Election Innovation & Research, and one of the authors of the Pew report cited by Spicer, rebutted the claim in a tweet Tuesday, saying that "voting integrity better in this election than ever before. Zero evidence of fraud."


www.nbcbayarea.com...

I get that you say...if there is not problem, then why not investigate...

That assumes the best intentions of those pushing the narrative..

And Repeatedly it has been shown through leaks, quotes and public misstatements..That hunting the sasquatch of a million illegal voters is just BS to provide cover for making it harder for poor and minority people to vote.

Now for some honesty...Bring it...I don't mind Trump going full on Bannon-Style extreme right..The country should have an honest choice, no BS involved and it can survive Trump..

I have faith in the American people..I believe Trump is damaging the GOP far more than he is America..and if the Dems took a shot to the chin during the fight..all the better, they need to get their # together..But I have zero doubt as to how the American Public is going to respond to the GOP/Trump over the next 4 years..assuming the GOP does not panic and impeach him to try and save themselves before the four years are up.


Many of these same people go berserk at the idea of having to have an id to vote, because voting rights are so sacred.

I don't understand how one person could hold both of these views.

I also think voting rights are sacred, and if everyone is admitting that voter fraud occurs at some level, and that voting rolls are often times inaccurate (apparently even with Steve Bannon) then why isn't it a worth while effort to investigate this problem and try to correct it?





Let me get this straight.

So there Is hard proof of voter fraud but no one/dems wants to see how much

BUT

No hard proof of russians hacking/influencing the election but people/dems calling for all kinds of investigations/sanctions and military retaliation?

lol. ok!









Let's boil it down further.
Dems do not want anything good to happen for the country of it comes from Trump.



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 07:22 PM
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a reply to: Annee


Its a waste of tax payers money. The election is over.

Right, the election is over. This investigation won't change one single thing about this last election. That's done, finished, write it in the history books.

What about 2018? 2020? 2022? 2024?

That's what this investigation is about: the future, not the past.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 07:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: Indigo5



That is me...

2 prosecutable cases of Voter Fraud in the 2016 Presidential Election...Lady in Florida Voting twice for Trump and guy in Texas that said he was testing the system for Trump..Both voted Trump..

That puts Voter Fraud in the 1 in 60 million category...You have 60X greater chance of getting struck by lightening today.

Paul Ryan's (GOP LEAD of the House) response to Trump's "investigation" nonsense?



"I've seen no evidence to that effect.
I've made that very, very clear," House Speaker Paul Ryan told reporters

www.npr.org...

Sean Spicer, the Presidents spokeperson tried to defend Trump's delusion by citing a study by David Becker...

And David Becker responded..


David Becker, executive director of the Center for Election Innovation & Research, and one of the authors of the Pew report cited by Spicer, rebutted the claim in a tweet Tuesday, saying that "voting integrity better in this election than ever before. Zero evidence of fraud."


www.nbcbayarea.com...


My contention is that boith sides have used voter fraud, particularly in the primaries, but in the general as well, and so all establishment people like Paul Ryan of establishment democrats are against any investigation of it. This is just my opinion, but I saw plenty of shenanigans with Ron Paul and Berni sanders that we could go through on other threads if you like.

As far as the Pew guys, there own study showed that at least the potential for voter fraud is there, as millions of deceased or double registered people are on the rolls. Why not at least investigate and eliminate that?

These Pew people also said somewhere (I think I could be wrong) that there conclusion is zero people voted illegally, and we know that is not true.



I get that you say...if there is not problem, then why not investigate...

That assumes the best intentions of those pushing the narrative..

And Repeatedly it has been shown through leaks, quotes and public misstatements..That hunting the sasquatch of a million illegal voters is just BS to provide cover for making it harder for poor and minority people to vote.


So wait a minute. You say that people investigating for voter fraud are just an excuse to stop minorities and poors from voting, yet you don't believe that the Obama and other democratic investigators or groups like the NAACP don't have an agenda when looking into voter ID.

Thats garbage.


Now for some honesty...Bring it...I don't mind Trump going full on Bannon-Style extreme right..The country should have an honest choice, no BS involved and it can survive Trump..

I have faith in the American people..I believe Trump is damaging the GOP far more than he is America..and if the Dems took a shot to the chin during the fight..all the better, they need to get their # together..But I have zero doubt as to how the American Public is going to respond to the GOP/Trump over the next 4 years..assuming the GOP does not panic and impeach him to try and save themselves before the four years are up.


We shall see I guess.



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 07:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Indigo5



That is me...

2 prosecutable cases of Voter Fraud in the 2016 Presidential Election...Lady in Florida Voting twice for Trump and guy in Texas that said he was testing the system for Trump..Both voted Trump..

That puts Voter Fraud in the 1 in 60 million category...You have 60X greater chance of getting struck by lightening today.

Paul Ryan's (GOP LEAD of the House) response to Trump's "investigation" nonsense?



"I've seen no evidence to that effect.
I've made that very, very clear," House Speaker Paul Ryan told reporters

www.npr.org...

Sean Spicer, the Presidents spokeperson tried to defend Trump's delusion by citing a study by David Becker...

And David Becker responded..


David Becker, executive director of the Center for Election Innovation & Research, and one of the authors of the Pew report cited by Spicer, rebutted the claim in a tweet Tuesday, saying that "voting integrity better in this election than ever before. Zero evidence of fraud."


www.nbcbayarea.com...



These Pew people also said somewhere (I think I could be wrong) that there conclusion is zero people voted illegally, and we know that is not true.



Not to dismiss your other relevant points..Admittedly I am being selective for my own convenience of what I know..


After that study ...Many states purged thier voter rolls of the dead in response to that study. The articles I cited explain that..if not I can provide other citations. Yes...they purged the bloat of deceased voters..no they could not find a singular example of where that had been exploited for voter fraud.







So wait a minute. You say that people investigating for voter fraud are just an excuse to stop minorities and poors from voting, yet you don't believe that the Obama and other democratic investigators or groups like the NAACP don't have an agenda when looking into voter ID.


Yes.




Thats garbage.



It's clear you feel or think that way. The pit fights of ATS aside...You are a smart poster, one of the few. The Dems want minorities and poor people to be able to vote because the skew Dem...the GOP wants to make it harder for those folks to vote because they skew Dem. That is what this about. You have the intellectual horsepower to overcome BS appealing to party identity politics. If you don't get it now, I have faith you will someday. Eff the Dems Eff the GOP...Voting rights of your neighbors and you "trump" all political parties...And our founders would tell you the same.






We shall see I guess.


Yes we will...I have no evidence or citation for that belief..

I have "Faith" in the grand experiment of 240 years ago...A government by the people...for the people..in a time when kings still ruled. The light still effing shines shore to shore...and I shoot straight as I did in my youth. Trump is a stain, but not a permanent one.

You Grambler?...you are one of the faithful. You believe in this grand experiment called the USA...that our founders died for..You will come around

It's always been a risky venture dependent on the everyday citizen willing to fight for it. Democracy is my avatar..on the edge of the abyss appreciating the wonder of it all. Sooner or later you will need to decide...where do you stand?
edit on 25-1-2017 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 07:49 PM
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originally posted by: Profusion

The new president said the inquiry would include "those registered to vote in two states, those who are illegal".

Mr Trump also said the probe would focus on "those registered to vote who are dead (and many for a long time)".

He has alleged that up to five million illegal votes were cast for Hillary Clinton, but has offered no evidence.

SOURCE


If Trump is right about his claims concerning voter fraud, we could be looking at a situation where the Democrats may have no chance of winning a presidential election for a while. That would be a 100% reversal compared with how many thought the electoral college favored the Democrats, and a Republican may never be elected POTUS again. I was one of those people before the last presidential election.

Every Republican should get behind Trump in his investigation into voter fraud. Voter fraud only seems to favor the Democrats after all.

Any predictions as to where this investigation will lead? I believe it could be earth-shattering.



Yea watch them flap around.

I heard just today that the LA CO sheriff dept said it would not be arresting illegals. Said there were to many of them in an area already full of Mexicans anyway. Well like wow there would be no voter fraud there now would their Ma! Cops wont even work should just give it to Mexico already. But hay their couldn't be any voter wicky wack going on there could there Ma?



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 07:54 PM
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DP
edit on 25-1-2017 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 07:56 PM
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a reply to: burgerbuddy

If that feels good?...sure...tell yourself that.



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 08:00 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5

As always, I enjoy our exchange and admit you make a lot of good points.

I am willing to admit that Republicans going into looking a voting fraud are doing so not out of a sense of doing whats right, but because it benefits them to do so. But surely you admit that democrats looking into how voter ID hurts minorities are doing so just as much for their benefit.

I do have faith in this country. I just think we have a difference of opinion on who fighting for the people.

All I can say is that if you are right that Trump will be a failure, I will be right there with you criticizing him.



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 08:12 PM
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originally posted by: Bone75
It's so funny watching Democrats take an interest in government spending all of a sudden.


Lackluster partisan blabber. What's more interesting is that conservatives are all of a sudden no longer conservative when it comes to government spending.

How are you feeling about that wall that Trump now wants to start building with taxpayer money (Trumps estimate of 8 billion is 3 times lower than other estimates)... hmmmm, wasn't Mexico gonna pay for that?



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 08:15 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Indigo5

But surely you admit that democrats looking into how voter ID hurts minorities are doing so just as much for their benefit.



yes.




I do have faith in this country. I just think we have a difference of opinion on who fighting for the people.

All I can say is that if you are right that Trump will be a failure, I will be right there with you criticizing him.



As much as I very much desire to stand shoulder to shoulder with my republican brothers in the face of tyranny...I dread the day that might provoke such unity. I will bleed for the most fringe-right-wing ideologue of my fellow neighbors before I will trade a single liberty my ancestors died for. God help us all if this mans narcissism fully jumps the shark.
edit on 25-1-2017 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 08:17 PM
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If voter fraud isn't an issue, then why are dems so against voter ID? You need an ID for just about everything, yet when it comes to the most important thing - voting - dems are like "nah, it's not necessary." Even dems have to admit, it looks fishy. I guarantee if most illegals were conservatives dems would be demanding voter ID laws.



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 08:55 PM
link   

originally posted by: okrian

originally posted by: Bone75
It's so funny watching Democrats take an interest in government spending all of a sudden.


Lackluster partisan blabber. What's more interesting is that conservatives are all of a sudden no longer conservative when it comes to government spending.

How are you feeling about that wall that Trump now wants to start building with taxpayer money (Trumps estimate of 8 billion is 3 times lower than other estimates)... hmmmm, wasn't Mexico gonna pay for that?


I think it's stupid and more symbolic than anything else. A 3' fence with a 50' kill zone would be way cheaper and much more effective. (I feel that I should point out that I am a communist and only a couple of my republican friends agree with me on this one)

I've also never met a conservative who was against spending tax dollars on border security or the integrity of our elections, so that point is moot.


edit on 25-1-2017 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 09:17 PM
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First the left says the Russians hacked the voting machines. Then they want a recount to make sure there is no cheating. Then they say please don't investigate because in California illegals get drivers license and are asked to register to vote. Which is it? U can't have it both ways.
edit on 25-1-2017 by amfirst1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 10:40 PM
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a reply to: Profusion

We already know there is some fraud; it's the widespread, massive amount that hasn't yet been proven. Based on what the one fellow in Nevada stated he found, in his district alone, it's clear there is a big problem. I think he is correct. Hope they find the evidence, and prosecute all involved. Fair elections are VITAL for a free nation.



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 10:43 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Annee


Its a waste of tax payers money. The election is over.

Right, the election is over. This investigation won't change one single thing about this last election. That's done, finished, write it in the history books.

What about 2018? 2020? 2022? 2024?

That's what this investigation is about: the future, not the past.

TheRedneck


I don't think so.

It's about Trump's bruised ego.




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