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originally posted by: enlightenedservant
originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: enlightenedservant
Always look forward to you weighing in on these issues.
I'd like to ask if anything is actively done within the Muslim community to rid this behavior? I ask because, you know, you speak for all Muslims!
It's the stories like this that shut minds down and stifle conversation. Conversation that needs to be had.
But I've already spoken many times on the programs that Muslim communities have with law enforcement and our local govts. I've gone into detail on how my Dad's an Imam where he lives, and how he & his associates have a working dialogue with their local law enforcement, local govt, the college where he teaches, and even federal agencies like the FBI. They helped when his mosque was vandalized, when he and others received death threats, and much more (like providing security during Eid festivals).
Though if you really want to know, start with a google search for programs like the FBI's "shared responsibility" programs (like this). For better or for worse, the FBI has been deeply involved in African American Muslim communities since at least the Nation of Islam and the Civil Rights Movement.
The reason so many lone wolf terrorists are already known to law enforcement is because they've already been alerted by their communities. So law enforcement (local and/or federal) will typically investigate them and try to get close to the person. If nothing is found, they'll typically just keep an eye on the person.
originally posted by: CHONGO
Lets quit all the bollocks This is a trojan horse. They are going to take over and your will have to be a religitard just like them or they will kill you, rape your wives, daughters, sisters, mothers and grandmothers.
Like the "collateral damage" from the constant drone strikes & military interventions by non-Muslim countries? Oh, those kids don't count now?
Such hypocrites. When Muslims spread out and move to your areas, you panic and want us out. When Muslims congregate with other Muslims & stay to ourselves, you panic and want us out. Like I said earlier, damned if we do and damned if we don't.
Let me guess, a final solution? Living space? A hunger plan?
originally posted by: LABTECH767
originally posted by: Ohanka
a reply to: eletheia
Islam, like practically every other religion, is a religion of conquest. It always has been. It was Muhammad who conquered Arabia by the sword, and Abu Bakr who expanded the first Caliphate. By the reign of Caliph Uthman the Islamic Empire stretched from Pakistan in the East to Tunisia in the West, from Yemen in the South to Azerbaijan in the North. Not bad for something that started in a cave near Mecca.
Like all religions Islam has a number of different teachings today, but Saudi Arabia funds extremist mosques that keep this dream of a worldwide Caliphate, established by conquest, either by external invasion or internal subversion, alive and well. The Western World would be well advised to take action against any Mosque with connections to the reigning Saud dynasty.
There is a major religion in this world that many claim to be members of but seldom follow, it is NOT a religion of Conquest but does believe that it's God owns the earth but that his enemy is in possession of it unlawfully so he will come and take it back.
It is a religion whose devotee's are told to bless there enemy's and to turn the other cheek to those that slap them, to not avenge because vengeance belongs to God - there God and to forgive all wrongs done to them as He will keep a tally of those crime's and decide regardless of how they feel about it but will be more likely to forgive them any failing's if they forgive other's there's.
But along came a soldier, a general whom wanted to rule an entire empire but by this time a new religion only a few century's old had swept through that empire as people had turned away from corrupt established religion to the social gathering's and fellowship, shared burden and friendliness of this new religion, they had turned away from the empty idols, self serving professional priests and money grabbing temples which had been so finely meshed with the old empire but sadly all that apparatus of public control and state management was indispensable to this new emperor and so it under him then got moved over and found a place inside this newer and innocent religion which he adopted as a state religion (or rather adapted and changed to suit that purpose).
IT greatest commandment was Love (obey) God (as it shows him) above all else and it's second greatest command is Love those around you even your enemy's as you love yourself (treat them as you would that they treat you).
It also teaches (factual) that woman and men are the same value in the sight of God and that in the Next life we become as the angel's whom serve god, spiritual being's and that God is a spirit (celestial body's).
Yes I am talking about Christianity and Constantine, Christianity at it's core is definitely a religion of peace but it is a religion of war in that it causes those that disagree with it to act violently to try to suppress it.
Islam on the other hand has always been and was born as a religion of conquest, intolerance and war, it claim's to follow the same God but is diametrically opposed in so many of it's point's was founded by a man whose own hand's were stained by the blood of other's.
Basically it teaches all the world belongs to it's followers, were they put there foot belongs to them if they are the first Muslims to step there and any and all other people that are not members of it are to be enslaved and are not even human, woman are less than men, there afterlife if they are good is a garden with young nubile virgin's (Hang on didn't his dick drop off when he died?) and they drink wine and are merry (alcohol is forbidden to them on earth you would be surprised how much strong spirit get's to Arabia on container ship's every year), there leader as well as slandering Jesus also married a child of six (later version of there Koran INTERPRET it as nine like that is somehow ok then nine is still a child), he also tried to claim to be the Messiah and got rejected by the Jewish elders and also wiped out several Jewish tribe's in western Arabia killing all there men and giving there woman as sex slave's to his follower's, He promised his followers that the Persian woman would lay on there back's with there leg's parted for them to rape freely.
There is no comparison.
My point being Christianity is not a religion OF conquest, it is a religion that has been used as a Tool of conquest but very few if any of those that did so were actually in any way genuinely Christian.
Islam is a religion of War and Conquest, it's peace can only be found by forcing all other's to comply to it's code's and even then the age old strife between the Sunni and the Shia as well as several other much smaller sect's show's that human disagreement's in on that point ensure war and violence will continue in perpetuity.
originally posted by: Sheye
Spot on... well said..Christians as a rule are taught to pray for unbelievers .. not blow them up... and Christ's teachings were " love your enemy and pray for them".
originally posted by: ketsuko
When the evangelicals start beheading people and strapping on suicide vests on a regular basis to go blow people up for the cardinal sin of not also being evangelical ... we can start making that comparison.
Until then, the closest you can come is deeds done by those long dead and in the past.
And if the best you can do is come up with being critical of how others live ... well there is plenty of that to go around. Your own post was a perfect example of an atheist (?) being critical of Christians in similar fashion to anything evnagelials do.
Should we equate you to the hate taught in Muslim madrassas?
originally posted by: TarzanBeta
a reply to: DaCook
You clearly don't understand the full history of Christianity - and you definitely haven't read how the pagans transformed a kind of fake Christianity for themselves to rule with.
You are blaming a pagan religion which has blasphemed by taking the same name.
Now pick up more real history books and articles and also the Bible so you can have a foundation for your speech.
It seems not to matter for IS, ISIS, Taliban, Al qaida, Al nusra, palestinians and so on.
originally posted by: prepared4truth
originally posted by: eletheia
originally posted by: maddy21
Whats ironic about the whole thing is that this particular mosque was recognized for promoting peace and tolerance and harmony in the society. Whats going on over here is absolute hate for anything which is not Muslim.
This is also where the question of surveillance comes in, one could say this is a violation of privacy but the greater evil would be to allow such hate to continue festering in the society until these people who are completely incompatible with your culture grow to become a rather large part of your population.
Which begs the question WHY do they want to live in a country they
neither like or respect
The benefits? the better standard of living?
Or to impose their questionable values
IDK why did the American pilgrims live in a country they didn't respect?
originally posted by: vonclod
They turned their old place into a #hole..and in some case the U.S. government helped greatly to make it a #hole.
originally posted by: ketsuko
originally posted by: jamespond
originally posted by: Ohanka
a reply to: eletheia
The Western World would be well advised to take action against any Mosque with connections to the reigning Saud dynasty.
Yes, because western policy in the middle east (since the discovery of oil) has obviously played no part in inciting this hatred towards the west.
Oh, and the small matter of supporting Israeli policy as well. Obviously this won't of played any part either.
It's just bad guys that don't like Democracy damn it!
This has been there since the beginning of the religion. The Muslims were attacking and enslaving Americans before we were hardly even a nation. Look up the Barbary pirates. When Jefferson asked why they were doing this, part of the answer was that it was their duty as good Muslims.
We were barely beginning to have a merchant fleet, so it's not like we'd had any time to antagonize anyone in the ME.