i dont think they ever will. THeir days are over. The british ditched india 60 years ago. The french are busy eating crepes and snails and the germans cant get over sauerkraut. Ok seriously they just cant get project any power nowadays. India could whip the French.

But do you think the europeans wil ever have an important part to play in world affairs in the next 100 years. I got nothing to do so please respond.

Originally posted by benedict arnold
i dont think they ever will. THeir days are over. The british ditched india 60 years ago. The french are busy eating crepes and snails and the germans cant get over sauerkraut. Ok seriously they just cant get project any power nowadays. India could whip the French.

But do you think the europeans wil ever have an important part to play in world affairs in the next 100 years. I got nothing to do so please respond.

HA HA!
OMG man!
Do you know how much of the forces in iraq the british service men and women made up?
1/4th of the forces there.
And britain is one of the smallest forces in the world and in europe.
Europe has the best tech , yes thats right yanks we have equal tech, and better training.

Considering that Europe collectively could outspend every other power on the planet... than yes it's safe to say they will be extremely formidable in war.

Just because they don't spend... does not mean they can't

Ofcourse thats what the EU is for. Its doubtful any of them on their own will ever be a Super power anytime soon but as one large group sure they can.

The EU will have to expand beyond a Economic Union though I would say.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
The EU will have to expand beyond a Economic Union though I would say.

They're already moving towards that with the European Gendarmerie Force (EGF).
The EGF is starting out as a peacekeeping force but it could possibly expand into a multi-nation military force.

I wonder what will happen to individual countries armed forces within Europe if the EU do go ahead and build their own armed forces? I'm glad Britain is not fully apart of the EU yet, because I really don't want to lose my countries history to some beauracrats (is that right?).

I think one thing is for sure, in the next 50yrs, we will be seeing many large superpower rising. I can't see the US staying in the lime light too long, and no doubt, sooner or later, they are going to be surpassed by the above countries technologically, militarily and economically.

Imagine the destruction caused if there was another WW between the above countries, presuming they do suprass America. I doubt man will recover from such devastation, but like most things in the universe, we're doomed to destruction, just to come back as something else, and so the cycle repeats.

Will the europeans ever be powerful?

IMHO, I believe that the Europeans, aka: the EU, can be as powerful as it so chooses to be. It already is considered "powerful." They do possess nuclear capabilities, don't they? If you don't 'fear' them, you definately have to respect them, huh?

As to the EU becoming powerful, say as NATO once was, I do not believe that that is the intended goal of the EU. At this juncture in time, I do not believe that any of the EU members would seek to substantiately increase their military defense expenditures so that they can rival or be considered as be viewed as competing with the US or anyone else for that matter. Again, I do not believe that is the intended purpose and goal of the EU: Europeans. I may be wrong, but till I see evidences to the contrary, I'll stick with what I mentioned in regards to intended goal's and purpose's.

The two emerging next superpowers will probably be India and China.




seekerof

[edit on 29-1-2005 by Broadsword20068]

Originally posted by benedict arnold
India could whip the French.

Yeah, I guess a country with 1,065 Million inhabitants might possibly beat the french with 60 Million inhabitants ...

I can only say EU could be powerful and as every nation, EU as combined nations will need to have power projection capability to ensure its markets, even thou EU strives for other type of solutions, its shown troughout history that theres no neutral nation that is safe, unless it has strong allies.
EU and Japan both has their limits and theyr both morelikely contributing for simple keeping their living styles and economic, war would be big blow for all that, think about GDP of $11 trillion, even if fraction of it were directed to military development, US GPD is same as EU's if simplified, both has slow growth rates. So its easy to say EU does have potential in current world settings if work as united. I still think we are just going more humane way. And find political solutions instead armed conflicts, in the end those pay well, no despair and generation lasting hatred toward EU countrys.

I believe French could wipe out India from continent if wanted by its own nuclear arsenal not to mention its NATO member, if some odds would cause India to invade French or even missile launched from India, have to keep in mind EU countrys arent totally defenless even when trying more political approach in foreign politics. It doesnt mean weakness, more likely its long time politics that payes better in the end.

I'm guessing your American,

Please dont underestimate the power of the British Armed forces.....

Just because we dont have as big a budget as the americans it doesnt mean we dont rival them in technology/training etc.. take the Black Watch, SAS, SBS etc...

benedict arnold - Please remember you NEEDED our (british) help in every recent conflict. Take Iraq and the stupid afgan conflict - the british stood by America.

We ditched India because we nicked all their valuable stuff like gold/diamonds - gave them a train track then gave them independence - it was their loss.

I agree with the french - they are too busy being conservative, and the germans are busy eating sausages.

But show a little gratitude to your best (probably) ally.

The Continent of Europe, COMBINED is probally more powerful than America (if you don't include nukes, although all of Europes nukes combined would still make America or Russia think twice!)

Britains army is probally generally better trained than American G.I's
Britains special forces are better than the American Special Forces
(for those who say this is argueable, the American Delta Force and the British SAS have had alot of training exercises together, and the SAS came out on top pretty much 10/10)

Britain and France have alot of nukes put together, not as much as America, but still ALOT.

Europes Econamy is better than America's due to the EU.


So if in YOUR eyes America is the "most powerful nation on earth"
Then NO, Europe is most DEFINITLY not useless, and is very powerful

Thanks For Listening

Benedict Arnold, now where have i heard that name before? Wasn't he the guy that betrayed the US in its War of independence? Interesting name to choose.
The EU economically is already powerful and as a combined force could match the US for military spending should it choose to do so. But it wont because the EU is a collective of Countries who have all had failed Colonial ambitions before. So as a group they understand from experience how dangerous Military ambitions could be. But i wouldnt consider poking a steeping Giant, better to let us sleep.



[edit on 30-1-2005 by Janus]

Power has many faces.
Power is not only raw violence with a lot of weapons, nukes and fightin them wars all the time.
There are other ways to express power and control things, more subtle and more effective ways. Europe is using these other ways and in the next few decades the real extent of this power will become visible.

Europe is powerful. It has nuclear capabilities, strong economic nations and a large population. It also has a strong currency that looks to be slowly but surely overtaking the dollar as the international trading currency of choice and also european nations have a lot of diplomatic respect and power in the world. Militarily Europe produces high quality products time and time again.

So i'd say Europe is powerful IMO.

thanks,
drfunk

The EU would be more powerful and prosperous if the English would get over their rediculous xenophobic distrust of the French, and realise that being part of Europe would benefit the UK as a whole. Nobody's going to take away anybody's history or culture.

As far as being a military power is concerned, I think anyone who's wrapped up in that issue is looking for a new enemy, having realised that the "terror" is just an illusion and a political tool. War isn't cool. Guns and tanks are a waste of money and labour. Unions and alliances like the EU in areas such as Europe which have been volatile in the past are a good way to keep the peace. And the idea that the EU would go to war with the US or India (?!) is pure fantasy.

Europe has always been influential and powerful throughout history and still is. European armies tend not to recurit anyone, like the American military does, and you will probably find that in NATO training exercise, the Europeans always came out on top due to better training and discipline.

The french are busy eating crepes and snails and the germans cant get over sauerkraut.

The French are just too busy with domestic affairs and has always been to themselves. Germany still has sanctions from world war II, so its army is still under red tap.

Ok seriously they just cant get project any power nowadays.

Really?? how come America started crying about EU sanctions on US goods? And the rumour mill stated America was getting scared about an EU army. Oh, lets not forget the fact that America started crying again about the EU considering lifting arms embargo with China.

This is what makes me laugh, America is a declining superpower and we've spent years with them being the only one. Now, with China looking like to the next superpower and the EU can be, in theory, America is really just jealous because it wont be in charge anymore.

Oh please, Europe is still going down hill with a low growth rate. The economy is in the toilet and the EU isn't helping any. Maybe the U.S. isn't that much better off long-term since we have some of our own problems, but Europe certainly isn't going to surpass the U.S. in either military or economic power unless they lose their socialist welfare state mentality.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Oh please, Europe is still going down hill with a low growth rate. The economy is in the toilet and the EU isn't helping any. Maybe the U.S. isn't that much better off long-term since we have some of our own problems, but Europe certainly isn't going to surpass the U.S. in either military or economic power unless they lose their socialist welfare state mentality.

The EU will probably surpass America in terms of military and economic power. More and more states will join the EU. Once the EU constitution is replaced with the real thing and majority of the major countries in Europe sign up to it, it will become a major power structure.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Oh please, Europe is still going down hill with a low growth rate. The economy is in the toilet and the EU isn't helping any. Maybe the U.S. isn't that much better off long-term since we have some of our own problems, but Europe certainly isn't going to surpass the U.S. in either military or economic power unless they lose their socialist welfare state mentality.

We're not going to lose that mentality because it has been proven to be what is best for the people of Europe. People here want to keep these systems in place, and military power to rival the US is not a priority. Why be proud of having a vast army which soaks up billions in taxpayers money and doesn't give them anything in return?