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My body-My choice

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posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:43 PM
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Serious question, can Dr's determine at what point consciousness develops in a fetus? You know similar to the way we determine someone on life support is brain dead? at what point during development does a biological sack of meat and fluids becomes a conscious human being?

My pops was brain dead.. Gone.. No longer with us but his body lasted over a week on autopilot after we pulled the plug.

Would the same rules that we use to determine when we pull the plug apply to aborting and fetus?


edit on 23-1-2017 by PlasticWizard because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-1-2017 by PlasticWizard because: Grammar




posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: DBCowboy

Because it is insurance. Your body, your vehicle, if you will, and if you crash it, others have to pay for it if you can't pay for it yourself. You can't choose whether or not you might need care.


Of course you pay for it, it is your responsibility to pay for it. And you can always choose if you need care.


You can then choose whether or not to have medical procedures done to your body. No one is preventing you from getting needed care. No one is forcing you to have a procedure done.


Uh, yes.


The other aspect is that the goal behind the mandate was not just personal responsibility but collective. This is where ideology on the left and right hits it's own wall and crashes.


Now we're getting somewhere.

The collective. Defeats individual rights, ignores individual rights.

The mandate will not be a problem for you much longer.


I hope.



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:45 PM
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a reply to: PlasticWizard

You're getting at the nuts and bolts of abortion. The ethics and morality of it. That's why I think things like this should be private. Socially and financially.



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:48 PM
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If the "collective" can determine healthcare, then why is it still "my body-my choice" a very individualistic approach, to abortion?



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:50 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

I think the real danger with the mandate is it sets precedent for the government to punish us for not buying a product from a private company and then leaves us with only companies the States approve of. No competition and no real choice, either buy it or be fined.

Competition across State lines made auto insurance far cheaper and it just amazes me anyone would be opposed to competition to reduce prices. Talk about protectionism. It can't help but lead to bad interactions between State politicos and insurance companies and these insane prices we see now.

I think most people and businesses who pay for their insurance now see the problems with the ACA and the crazy prices and the onerous regulations on medical providers is making many MD's quit. Those who get it free don't have the knowledge to have a real opinion or understand how it hurt a lot of middle income people, in particular those who live in places where it's already expensive to live.



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:50 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
My body, my choice.

The defense used in the abortion debate.

My body, my choice? Why isn't it "my body, my choice" when we discuss the healthcare insurance mandate?

There, it isn't "my body, my choice". It's "My body, government choice".

Now we can debate, if it is "my body" in the case of abortion. . .

But in terms of general healthcare mandates, it most definitely IS my body.

Yet most proponents of abortion rights are apparently for healthcare mandates as well.

How does anyone reconcile the two seemingly disparaging views?



OK i will play. Obamacare is screwed up, it has accomplished some things, but until profit is taken out of medicine will never accomplish the desired targets. I am also pro-choice with limits, I am good with 20 weeks, after that in case of incest, rape, or the mother's health. I also think we need comprehensive sex ed for our teenagers. [sarc] So basically I am one of those whacked out liberals who is pro abortion [/sarc]



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:50 PM
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My Wallet My choice!

MY Gun closet MY choice!

Or wait I am not in a protected class.



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:51 PM
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a reply to: PlasticWizard

reincarnationly speaking, the spirit enters the baby body a couple months before birth even up to right after birth.

If you can imagine a full grown mind in a helpless baby's body...



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

What you really mean is "My money, my choice."

I don't think the right to autonomy can be applied to your wallet. It's an interesting premise, nonetheless.



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

To me, the mandate was one solution to the problem of paying high medical costs while benefitting government.

The other solution (one I hope is being explored) is actually lowering costs.

That doesn't benefit government, but then again that is a good thing.



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:53 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Blaine91555

To me, the mandate was one solution to the problem of paying high medical costs while benefitting government.

The other solution (one I hope is being explored) is actually lowering costs.

That doesn't benefit government, but then again that is a good thing.


without the mandate the costs of insurance will soar



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: veracity

I don't think you understand how humans develop..



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:54 PM
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originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Blaine91555

To me, the mandate was one solution to the problem of paying high medical costs while benefitting government.

The other solution (one I hope is being explored) is actually lowering costs.

That doesn't benefit government, but then again that is a good thing.


without the mandate the costs of insurance will soar


Like it did before the ACA???? /sarc

Is there any proof to this claim?



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:55 PM
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a reply to: maria_stardust




I don't think the right to autonomy can be applied to your wallet.


According to the 14th amendment it can be.



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:55 PM
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a reply to: JinMI

We need to get to the nuts and bolts to fix the problem, not just look at the coat of paint slapped on it or put a new set of tires on it(metaphorically speaking). A universal understanding of the fetal development is key, not just the superficial heart beat/it looks like a human dribble. At what point is the fetus not part of the woman body and in itself, it own body.

Only thing I know for a fact is when my sperm leaves my body, "my choice" is riding that sumb+tch into the sunset.



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:56 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

If you DONT pay for it, or can't pay for it, you are sunk and so is the hospital who did the work.

Or other people pay for it.

But I agree the bottom line for many people is the sense that they should not have to purchase insurance so that others can be allowed to purchase insurance.

Medicare is, on the other hand, a direct tax imposed on your paycheck with the idea that you too will receive services at a certain age. Your payment goes for the care of others with no benefit to yourself at all at the time. The ACA "tax" at least gave you the service at the same time.



AB

PS - I'm not trying to argue with you about this, by the way, just answering your question. The abortion argument is interesting, but not an equivalence.



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:57 PM
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originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Blaine91555

To me, the mandate was one solution to the problem of paying high medical costs while benefitting government.

The other solution (one I hope is being explored) is actually lowering costs.

That doesn't benefit government, but then again that is a good thing.


without the mandate the costs of insurance will soar


With government inhibitive controls in place, you are right.

If government loosens their restrictions to cross-state insurance, costs will decrease.



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:57 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: veracity

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Blaine91555

To me, the mandate was one solution to the problem of paying high medical costs while benefitting government.

The other solution (one I hope is being explored) is actually lowering costs.

That doesn't benefit government, but then again that is a good thing.


without the mandate the costs of insurance will soar


Like it did before the ACA???? /sarc

Is there any proof to this claim?


i use common sense, but I'm sure you can google how it works



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: PlasticWizard

Similar to your earlier post, I would assume that when a fetus is self sufficient, it becomes a life. That is my stance at this point and you will find many variants. Even with scientific proof, there would still be detractors and neighsayers.

Who is to be the judge then?



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 06:58 PM
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originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: veracity

I don't think you understand how humans develop..


lol, i just study and research a science that is not popular in the western world.




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