Where do you stand on abortion?

a reply to: eletheia

Why is some development needed?

why is this particular degree of development (i.e., higher brain function) decisive rather than another?

You can shout "its a fetus" all day long, that doesnt remove the fact that mere change of location from inside the womb to outside the womb changes the essential nature of the unborn?

I think these sorts of debates/inquiries are pretty futile, no one is going to change anyone's mind. But, I am pro-life. Always have been. However, I have always been in support of a woman's choice, because who am I to judge? And God forbid I should ever have to make a choice of my own.

However, when I had my youngest something odd happened. He was initially a twin but the other twin disappeared at 10 to 12 weeks. To this day, my child occasionally asks about where his "brother" is - except he has no idea he was a twin. we've never told him. When I read, in the other thread, the member comment about a 10 week fetus being little more than a parasite, it made me ill. And I thought about my own child who has some vague instinct/concept of a 10 week "other" who should be here with him. THAT'S a life.

Abortion is a necessary evil. It will always happen, legal or not, becasue people are flawed and sometimes desperate. We shouldn't exalt their "choice" as some sort of "right", but lament it as a sad fact of humanity and draw strict limitations on it and roll back the mindset of using it as birth control.

At the same time, we need to support other forms of birth control along with prenatal care and better facilitated adoptions. And, just as importantly, we need to stop pushing sex onto young people as a means to sell everything and, instead, promote self-respect, abstinence or at least safe sex until such time as they can afford to and are prepared to be parents.

IMHO. YMMV.

I really wish I could find that documentery I spoke of earlier it was a massive wake up call for me and it was a honest view of what abortion nurses have seen and dealt with..

Bottom line if you agree with it then so be it, I am not religious and a firm atheist just so you know where I am coming from, it really just does not sit well with me at all, I do not believe in a heaven or hell so I believe you have taken that one chance that child has of living.

I sit firmly in the camp that says people should be responsible for their actions and yes women do use abortion as a birth control and far to many men put pressure on women to have one.. You f#ckers f#cked now grow a pair and deal with the consequences..

Just do a search and see what a "fetus" looks like at each stage of pregnancy, also look into the "soft" language that abortion clinics use to understate the procedure..

RA

originally posted by: YouSir
Ummm...ouch...

Does being called a murderous slut...hurt more than the guilt associated with the...choice...?
I'm not asking in a personal way...merely as speculation...

It depends on the individual .... It might worry some, It wouldn't effect me.

I've been called worse, fortunately I don't need anyone else's validation for

my self esteem and moral fiber.

I'm wondering...if the internalized angst caused by the act of aborting a child is then externalized as a defense mechanism and projected in outward displays such as those embarrassing scenes depicted during the march...

Cant answer that one, I suppose its different for everyone .... however I

do know of at least half a dozen women who have had terminations and

theres no way it shows, most have happily gone on to have other children.


The fervor of those type of marches is an embarrassment and over

dramatisation which seems the norm these days, I refer to it as the

*me generation* seeking approval on fb or the media for everything from

the food they eat, their appearances their tattoo's and the latest their

latest pregnancy scans.

(I know this will be taken out of context...however I'm just trying to wrap my head around what must be a very painful emotional decision)
Further...if there is no emotional angst involved with causing the death of a developing fetus...then that raises all sorts of other questions...that need to be explored...

Sometimes one has to make painful decisions in life and I really dont think

anyone gets out unscathed or takes it lightly and without a lot consideration.

However once a decision is taken one should go forward without guilt.

originally posted by: AMNicks
Why is some development needed?

why is this particular degree of development (i.e., higher brain function) decisive rather than another?

???????? I dont recall mentioning anywhere about higher brain function

or degrees of development??????

You can shout "its a fetus" all day long, that doesnt remove the fact that mere change of location from inside the womb to outside the womb changes the essential nature of the unborn?

Legally and medically it is an embryo till week 9 then it

is a fetus The fetus is only considered a baby when it becomes

viable to exist on its own 22/24 weeks.

Bottom line is it is not viable or cannot live before 22 weeks.

Oh boy this is a fiery topic, I know.

I'll make it short, and don't be offended please anyone if anyone decides to respond to this and I don't give you a reply. I know better.

I'm pro choice.
I have a 2 year old son.

I MIGHT regret putting this out there, but probably not. I had an abortion last year on May 6th.

I won't get into the reasons it's always a long and complicated story. I knew instantly just as I did when I was pregnant with my son, and I knew the choice I was going to be making. Thankfully by the time I did all the appointments and waited the necessary time after watching the videos and having the U/s I was only 5 weeks and there was no detectable heartbeat yet. So it made the choice easier for me. Not sure I could have gone through with it if there had been a heartbeat honestly. We could not afford a second child. It wouldn't be fair to our son. You may have your own opinion on that, and so be it whatever it is, it doesn't affect me. I rarely feel guilt about it, but I attribute that to the fact that there was no heartbeat and I was so very lucky to be the kind of woman who instantly is aware of conception. It's different for everyone. It's very personal.

I don't think it's anyone's business but the Woman involved, and sometimes the man who contributed.

It's between them, and ultimately I believe it's the woman right to choose.

I don't want to get into it further than that, so I'll leave you with that my 2 cents.

-Alee

originally posted by: AMNicks
a reply to: eletheia

Why is some development needed?

why is this particular degree of development (i.e., higher brain function) decisive rather than another?

You can shout "its a fetus" all day long, that doesnt remove the fact that mere change of location from inside the womb to outside the womb changes the essential nature of the unborn?

It's due to the scientific criteria of life and autonomy. Until around 22 weeks there is no CNS so the fetus is unable to sense or feel anything such as pain. If it was aborted it wouldn't have a clue or feel a thing (unlike forcing the woman to give birth)

I'm a guy, so I'm not really pro choice or pro life. I leave that where it belongs, with women.

I say this as a fairly new grandfather. My daughter git pregnant at an inopportune time. I was disappointed with her. She chose to keep the baby, and I certainly love that little kiddo, but had she decided on abortion, I would have accepted that decision as well.

originally posted by: buster2010
Pro choice. Until they create an artificial womb so the man can be forced to carry the baby if the woman doesn't want it then no one has a right to tell a woman what she can do with her body.

Except, of course, where drugs, prostitution, suicide, polygamy, public nudity, consuming raw milk, etc are concerned, ya?

The law is a self-conflicted bitch. The USA either needs to fully embrace individual liberty and freedom or it needs to STFU and enforce the laws equally.

ETA: I'm pro-life, FWIW.

We should force more poverty births. I mean those that think babies and puppies are cute, and collect them for some selfish self-worth building exercise, tax write-off, or fashion accessory have a good point.

a reply to: Profusion

The moment a sperm punctures and enters an egg, the human is born. DNA mixes and the assembly gets underway.

There's no questioning the process of conception... the problem is getting folks to understand when life begins and it is, at conception.

IMESHO, that is. I have no desire to preach but I do suspect that, after this physical life, we will be stood for judgement before we pass to the next level.

BTW, religion has no bearing whatsoever on my opinion... it is just a matter of who and what we are; a child-species.

Have a nice day

I have trouble using fly spray and pick spiders up in a glass and put them outside and don't eat meat, so for myself I couldn't have an abortion, I was told to have an abortion by a friends mother (ex was violent) and haven't spoken to them since ~as I got quite angry about that.

My daughter is grown up now and beautiful and kind and cannot imagine life without her in it and has recently reconnected with her Father, he has apologised to both of us.

Saying that I don't push my beliefs on others. Many women died before birth control through dodgy back street abortions but having an abortion shouldn't be used as birth control as the process is quite barbaric (I have spoken to someone who worked in such a place) and should be a well thought out choice.

So this leaves me in neither camp.

a reply to: Profusion

I think abortion solely for the convenience of the woman and/or her partner is always wrong.

We can talk about exceptions for life of the mother or her health (ectopic pregnancy style issues).

We can even talk about issues of rape and incest, but legally, it needs to be reflected that an innocent life is being taken. The baby did not ask to be punished anymore than it asked to be made. The law should reflect this with a manslaughter charge added to the rape charges and any charges related to the incest/child abuse. If a pregnant woman can be murdered and the killer charged with two deaths or a pregnant women who loses her baby sue for wrongful death, this seems only fair.

I make this judgment based on the idea that every human being has a right to his or her life, even anunborn baby. It is too easy to dismiss the unborn because they are not physically evident in the world, but it seems wrong to me that a women can go into the hospital and give borth prematurely and every human being in that place will move and heaven and earth to give that baby his or her chance to live, but a woman equally far along can walk into an abortion center down the street and violently have that child dismembered and thrown away like so much trash.

The two children have nothing different about them except their mother's desires. And that seems plain wrong. If one is human and worthy of havig a right to live, then so should the other be.

Let's not over-analyse.

Abortion is a choice, often hard and fraught, of the mother.

The time limit is the key. 24 weeks seems a reasonable maximum.

Pro Choice until conscious awareness has reached a certain level.

The whole idea that we have to maximize the numbers of souls being human is insane. Fewer souls being born the better they will be treated and the lower struggle for resources. It is a numbers game.

It is not like there are not other place they can be if they are not here. And if they are only interested in human experience then during the waiting period for a human experience they can be playing around in the bliss.

I find it weird that people who are religious are not thinking on their own about what is going on, on the other side of the veil.

I don't understand why people overcomplicate the issue with when life begins.

If a woman wants an abortion she will get one.

Unless you've got stocks in coat hangers there's no pro life argument that makes sense.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

If you want to rob a bank, you'll find a way. Why make it illegal?

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Humans become sentient at about 18 months though. So, maybe you just send your baby to the animal shelter to be euthanized?

I would say conception, activating new DNA is enough to warrant a basic degree of protection barring extenuating circumstances. Being dependent on another person for survival lasts well into adulthood sometimes.

I think it should be a State issue though, not Federal.

If you want to start defining when a life starts, why not define when it ends? Dick Cheney doesn't have a heartbeat.. a person in a coma is not sentient. A quadrapalegic can not feel pain.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

My previous point exactly!

The only question to debate is whether or not a woman can access a doctor to perform her abortion or must resort to a coat hanger....

a reply to: AutonomousMeatPuppet

If you want to rob a bank, you'll find a way. Why make it illegal?

Laws making bank robbing, or making anything illegal, don't stop bank robbing from happening. Punishment does. Do you think that women seeking an abortion should be punished, in order to deter abortions?

I think it should be a State issue though, not Federal.

You think that a woman's autonomy and the contents of her uterus should be regulated differently from state to state?

originally posted by: AutonomousMeatPuppet

If you want to rob a bank, you'll find a way. Why make it illegal?

That's a poor analogy.
I don't think you should take money from someone else's pocket. If it's your pocket however, what say should I have?