President Trump returns bust of Churchill to Oval Office

a reply to: ignorant_ape

The Churchill bust was a gift given to us by the Brits. They most certainly noticed that it was not there anymore.

a reply to: ketsuko

Well done, ketsuko. I'm a fan of ancient and modern Japanese and Chinese culture. The Chinese, who have their memories intact, would say exactly what you said.

President Trump seems to ignore history.

In his early political career, Winston Churchill was a complete disaster.

He is a hero of Great Britain, to be sure, but I'd think that Donald Trump could maybe find AMERICAN leaders that he admired for a place in the Oval Office ?

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Both my grandfathers fought Pacific theater. One was a bomber pilot and the other was on the ground.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: xuenchen

Did the mainstream media report that Obama removed Churchill's bust from the Oval Office? I wonder what he had against Winston Churchill? Maybe he replaced it with one of his idols.

Yes.

There was controversy I think in 2011.

But I remember He had it moved to another room off to the side somewhere.

The MLK bust replaced the Churchill bust.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
just to get this train wreck back on topic

has anyone asked WHY trump put the churchill bust back in the oval office ?

there are hundereds of objects d art availiable to him - to decorate his various work // living spaces

but on day one - he moves a churchill statuette

why ? might tip out an interesting answer

Nigel and him had an agreement obviously. I help you and you in return put the bust back if you win.

originally posted by: UKTruth

Very revealing post.

Enlighten me, what is so "revealing" about it?

a reply to: zosimov


Hi Zosimov.


You are right; flattening a city with fire bombs is a terrible thing. I don't think anybody would dispute that, but we have 70 years of hindsight to look at what happened.


There are similar pictures from Hull, Manchester, Liverpool, London... This was not a whim; it was how warfare was fought at the time.


We also had the dropping of nuclear weapons a couple of months later - and very like Dresden bombing - they were used as a means to an end. If the Germans or Japanese had got the technology first, do you think London would still be there? Again, with 70 years of hindsight, we can all shake our heads and talk about what a terrible thing it was, but it was a desperate time for ALL nations involved and ANY of them would - and did - do similar things if they believed it would bring them dignity.

The important thing for us all is to learn from history and rather than get into "cowboys and Indians" (as in we're the good guys, you're the bad guys) we should try to find a way to make sure this situation doesn't come around again!

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: zosimov
Here is a picture of Dresden, which was called the Florence of the North until it was devastated by a bombing campaign initiated and ordered by the "hero" Winston Churchill.

In February 1945, the last year of World War 2, Britain sent 300 Lancaster bombers to attack the crowded German city of Dresden. This attack was not the precision bombing of specific military targets. It was deliberate bombing of a whole area. The bombs destroyed city buildings and started tremendous fires. Before long, eleven square miles of Dresden were consumed by a firestorm. The vacuum caused by the rapid rise of hot air created tornadoes that tossed furniture, trees and debris into the air. People were caught in fires as hot as 1000 °C. The city was devastated. No one knows how many thousands died. The German armies were in retreat at this time and the war was nearly over. Some historians have argued that this attack was not justifiable on military grounds, that it was nothing more than a slaughter of civilians. But others say it helped to shorten the war in Europe. Ultimate responsibility for this attack lay with the British Prime Minister, Winston Churchill. Was the bombing of Dresden a justifiable act during wartime? How closely was Winston Churchill involved in the decision to attack the city? Does this cast a shadow upon Churchill's reputation as the heroic icon of twentieth century British history?

Source: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk...

Did Aleister Crowley give Churchill the "V" for victory sign? Did he serve as a body double?

Methinks Churchill was NOT a very good man.

Dresden pales into insignificence when compared to the millions of Jews murdred by The Nazi's.

Don't you agree ?

No the 6 million jews ( a number repeated endlessly by the zionist congress since 1896 ) pales when compared to the 8.000.000 Chinese killed by the Japanese... and that's not even counting those who died from famine cause by the Japanese destruction of Chinese farming.

a reply to: UKLionheart

Lionheart,

Thank you for an excellent response. Not much to add to your complex view on (truly) one of the most horrifying times in mankind's collective history.
I do agree that it is hardly ever as simple as "the good guys vs the bad guys" when it comes to human affairs. I also am pleased to have the UK as our ally and think our values are very similar and (for the most part) good values to have.

As you wrote, I believe in the importance of a nuanced and truthful look into our history, which in my mind would exclude sweeping our own atrocities under the rug. In the very least, this advocates for the victims by holding perpetraters accountable-- though I do understand that extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures.

I am certainly glad that the Allies were able to put an end to the war.

Here's hoping that we have/will learn from our past mistakes! (How can we if we don't discuss all aspects?)
The optimist in me is hopeful, the realist not so much.

The point is, its a show of solidarity and brotherhood with our British allies.

Sorry

He was a filthy pig.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: mc1km

Churchill's courage and determination at a time when everyone else thought it was a hopeless situation played a huge role in shaping the western world today.

What does Churchill have to do with America, make America Great Again, All America, All the Time.

Did Trump switch out the MLK bust? You know MLK. American. Great American to some.

I saw a photo inside the Whitehouse and there was a statue of Churchill with the text "Protector of Freedom" and "Honorary US Citizen" underneath it. Churchill was no saint (he took the decision to sink the French navy as well) but he fought for freedom and if Britain hadn't, Europe and Africa (and probably more) would likely be a Nazi super state today.

a reply to: xuenchen

I remember reading this and thinking. Obama really is Racist isn't he. Why in earth would he not want one of the most Iconic and world changing speakers to ask it to be removed. Yet this was never mentioned, yet a tweeter with false claims of mlk bust removed when it wasn't.

Just shows you how corrupt the media is right now.

If people are so butt hurt over that bust, why didn't you say something when Bush or Clinton was in Power?

Far more important things to get butt hurt over than this fing piece of pottery, you know like Stopping the bad guys?

originally posted by: mc1km

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: mc1km

Churchill's courage and determination at a time when everyone else thought it was a hopeless situation played a huge role in shaping the western world today.

What does Churchill have to do with America, make America Great Again, All America, All the Time.

Did Trump switch out the MLK bust? You know MLK. American. Great American to some.

I saw a photo inside the Whitehouse and there was a statue of Churchill with the text "Protector of Freedom" and "Honorary US Citizen" underneath it. Churchill was no saint (he took the decision to sink the French navy as well) but he fought for freedom and if Britain hadn't, Europe and Africa (and probably more) would likely be a Nazi super state today.

Thank You

A real answer. Not a snarky one.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Not to mention the things the Japanese did to those they had in their power.

Between them, the Germans and the Japanese were hardly nice or kind to the people they had power over.

In the Pacific, the Japanese didn't take prisoners and they didn't kill mercifully. They used prisoners for bayonet practice or emasculated them and chopped off arms and legs before leaving what was left to die. They always fought to the last man forcing a kill or be killed situation.

And we all know what the Germans did.

But, yes, let's mope over how people bombed them.

lets look these up shall we

The Rape of Nanking

NANJING MASSACRE
www.history.com...


Unit 731
www.unit731.org...

a reply to: zosimov

Someone forgot to mention the bombing in the UK from Germany

The Blitz
en.wikipedia.org...

Casualties and losses
~40,000[2]–43,000 civilians dead,[3] ~46,000 injured
figures for wounded possibly as high as 139,000[3]

Unknown
3,363 aircrew
2,265 aircraft (Summer 1940 – May 1941)[4]

First Blood .......




Dresden
en.wikipedia.org...

Casualties and losses
8 planes shot down 22,700–25,000 deaths


I wonder if

Theresa May
or
had
David Cameron

had Truman's bust in their 10 Downing Street Home
in their office ....

any how

Barack Obama sends bust of Winston Churchill on its way back to Britain
Barack Obama has sent Sir Winston Churchill packing and pulse rates soaring among anxious British diplomats.
www.telegraph.co.uk...

A bust of the former prime minister once voted the greatest Briton in history, which was loaned to George W Bush from the Government's art collection after the September 11 attacks, has now been formally handed back. The bronze by Sir Jacob Epstein, worth hundreds of thousands of pounds if it were ever sold on the open market, enjoyed pride of place in the Oval Office during President Bush's tenure. But when British officials offered to let Mr Obama to hang onto the bust for a further four years, the White House said: "Thanks, but no thanks."

Was Lincoln then Change to MLK ?

American politicians have made quoting Churchill, whose mother was American, something of an art form, but not Mr Obama, who prefers to cite the words and works of his hero Abraham Lincoln. Indeed a bust of Mr Lincoln now sits in the Oval Office where Epstein's Churchill once ruled the roost.

and then.....

It was during Churchill's second premiership that Britain suppressed Kenya's Mau Mau rebellion. Among Kenyans allegedly tortured by the colonial regime included one Hussein Onyango Obama, the President's grandfather

Really ?

ohh why Truman ? your thinking ,, Zosimov

Atomic Bombing
Hiroshima Nagasaki ...

I Doubt the President of Japan has a Bust of Truman



and then...

Fact Check: The Bust of Winston Churchill
JULY 27, 2012 AT 1:21 PM ET BY DAN PFEIFFER
obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...

Now, normally we wouldn’t address a rumor that’s so patently false, but just this morning the Washington Post’s Charles Krauthammer repeated this ridiculous claim in his column. He said President Obama “started his Presidency by returning to the British Embassy the bust of Winston Churchill that had graced the Oval Office.” This is 100% false. The bust still in the White House. In the Residence. Outside the Treaty Room.

In case these news reports are not enough for Mr. Krauthammer and others, here’s a picture of the President showing off the Churchill bust to Prime Minister Cameron when he visited the White House residence in 2010.

The Pic
obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...

and....... NOT ALL!!!

Update: Since my post on the fact that the bust of Winston Churchill has remained on display in the White House, despite assertions to the contrary, I have received a bunch of questions -- so let me provide some additional info. The White House has had a bust of Winston Churchill since the 1960’s. At the start of the Bush administration Prime Minister Blair lent President Bush a bust that matched the one in the White House, which was being worked on at the time and was later returned to the residence. The version lent by Prime Minister Blair was displayed by President Bush until the end of his Presidency. On January 20, 2009 -- Inauguration Day -- all of the art lent specifically for President Bush’s Oval Office was removed by the curator’s office, as is common practice at the end of every presidency. The original Churchill bust remained on display in the residence. The idea put forward by Charles Krauthammer and others that President Obama returned the Churchill bust or refused to display the bust because of antipathy towards the British is completely false and an urban legend that continues to circulate to this day.

Dan Pfeiffer
Former Assistant to the President and Senior Advisor

Does anyone research this #!! ?

God Dam sorry to be long winded here .. wtf ..





Apparently Washington Times doesn't get their fact strait ..

trump took churchills bust out of the white house living quarters and replaced it with putins bust.